6000 Year old Earth? T-Rex on Noah's Ark??!

Well, about those landscapes supposedly formed in days.
It is called a megaflood.
and it's a valid scientific theory, stated by specialized geologists.

*for the record: this has nothing - nada - to do with creationism*

There's a few theories that can explain how a landscape that we tought took ages to form, could actually have been created in a very short timespan. Read more about it here.

I'd like to stress again that these theories have nothing to do with the biblical flood, Noah or anything related. They are merely a scientific observation.

thx,
mr jones

Originally posted by mister Jones
Well, about those landscapes supposedly formed in days.
It is called a megaflood.
and it's a valid scientific theory, stated by specialized geologists.

*for the record: this has nothing - nada - to do with creationism*

There's a few theories that can explain how a landscape that we tought took ages to form, could actually have been created in a very short timespan. Read more about it here.

I'd like to stress again that these theories have nothing to do with the biblical flood, Noah or anything related. They are merely a scientific observation.

thx,
mr jones

Yes, interesing as this is, it does'nt mention the Grand Canyon because of course this is a rediculous claim. Erosion of that sort needs a river flowing for much longer than 6000 years. Not a massive flood across a flat (at the time apparently) plain. This science is unrelated.

Originally posted by riley
Wow. I predicted that you would fail to provide proof [despite saying you would] and would completely avoid my other questions. I must have ESP.

You cannot state Noahs flood as fact without proof.. it is story telling. At this point I'm starting to think you may even believe that their were dinos on the ark.. it's just as far fetched as squeezing every single species on the planet onto a primitive boat.

[edit on 26-5-2006 by riley]

I answered your question, just as I said I would. I predict you can't solve the world hunger problem in the next 30 seconds. .................


..............Gosh, I must be a genius. See, I knew you couldn't do it.



Your question was answered. There seems to be a lot of problems with facing the facts around here. Bringing the facts to the table is a wasted effort with some.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I answered your question, just as I said I would.

You said you would bring PROOF.. something that you are obligated to do when you claim something is fact.

I predict you can't solve the world hunger problem in the next 30 seconds. .................


..............Gosh, I must be a genius. See, I knew you couldn't do it.

How apt! You're right. A world wide flood apx 5000 years should be very easy to prove.. but since it's existence is as possible as me solving world hunger in the next 30 seconds you're never going to do it.
[I like how you ignored the other questions again.. nice touch.]

Your question was answered. There seems to be a lot of problems with facing the facts around here. Bringing the facts to the table is a wasted effort with some.

We require PROVEN facts.. not myths. I'm sorry if you cannot accept that there is a difference. AGAIN.. stating an opinion is fact does not magically turn it into one.

From earlier:

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
It's easy to make incorrect statements, it's a little harder to back them up I guess.

I hope you can see the hypocricy of this statement now.

[edit on 26-5-2006 by riley]

Im not so sure of this ark bit.....First off....For a ship to accomodate a male and female of every animal on Earth...It would have to be the size of a cruise ship. You would have to have the space to store enough fresh water for all of the animals and the space for all of the food. Some of these animals are carnivorous so right away you need more food and fresh water to keep these "feeder" animals alive.

It just doesnt make an ounce of sense. How did Noah get to Canada and round up a male and female polar bear, a 3000 lb vicious killing machine and then get down to Brazil and round up a pair of jaguars and then off to Antarctica for a set of penguins and then zip over to Australia for some kangaroos.....Its all totally impossible.

Its a fable

Originally posted by Census
Im not so sure of this ark bit.....First off....For a ship to accomodate a male and female of every animal on Earth...It would have to be the size of a cruise ship. You would have to have the space to store enough fresh water for all of the animals and the space for all of the food. Some of these animals are carnivorous so right away you need more food and fresh water to keep these "feeder" animals alive.

It just doesnt make an ounce of sense. How did Noah get to Canada and round up a male and female polar bear, a 3000 lb vicious killing machine and then get down to Brazil and round up a pair of jaguars and then off to Antarctica for a set of penguins and then zip over to Australia for some kangaroos.....Its all totally impossible.

Its a fable

I see your point, and within its context it makes perfect sense to me ... but there is a contention by some that certain bibical sources claim that "God" commanded 2 types of animals of every kind to appear before Noah ... which I find consistent within the domain of a hypothetical divine beings capacity.

... but so far, no one has (to my mind) been able to reasonably explain the logistical difficulties involved with a project of this magnitude. Hundreds of thousands of species** and variants requiring the entire spectrum of living environments ... fed and cared for by 7 people for an extended period of time on a massively turbulent flood
... on a wooden boat of immense proportions (even by todays standards) and dubious structural integrity as designed and built by a man and his 3 sons over the possible span of 120 years ... with the apparent shipbuilding technology of the times?

... and I do believe that Melatonin brought up a substantial sticking point ... genetic potential diversity in long term (self sustaining) bio-communities requires more than "one pair".

... nor the apparent and documented evidence (as referenced with scientific methodologocial practices open for all to see) which does not support the notion of a global flood some 5000 years ago

... nor the consequent mass extinction (massive depopulation/repopulation as spread concentrically from ground zero).

**Actually a conservative figure which place the numbers of species in the millions (to be fair though mostly insect and of course marine species) - figures referenced from the site below:

www.solcomhouse.com...

"Estimates of global species diversity have varied from 2 million to 100 million species, with a best estimate of somewhere near 10 million, and only 1.75 million known species of living organisms on earth have been identified."

... and for the points not covered ...

www.talkorigins.org...

LCKob



[edit on 26-5-2006 by LCKob]

You said you would bring PROOF.. something that you are obligated to do when you claim something is fact.

Why don't you provide that quote for me, I don't recall that. Here is your chance to produce some facts. Link me to that quote or give me the page #.

Don't you know that God created dinosaur fossils in situ as a way of testing the faith of his followers? For doesn't he has the power to make things appear old even though they were created only a few thousand years ago? Of course. In one instant, God created a 12 billion year past for the universe. Before a clock can run, it must be built, and so a living world to exist in the present, it must have a past. So in the blink of an eye he created a 4 billion-year-old world, then let it run. Is this not all within his power? Of course.

No, the dinosaurs were all in the ground by the time Noah heard the voice of the Lord and built his holy ark. To befuddle those who choose to believe the false voice of science, rather than the just and true word of the Creator.

Sun Matrix, You stated Noah's flood was fact so the onus was on you.. you then had the audacity to come on this thread accusing people of not providing proof [which was a blatent lie]. I at least have provided verifiable scientific facts [the last ice age, impossibilty of all species on the ark, common sense etc.] yet all you have done is parrot fables from the bible. You are quite free to believe what you like.. just don't call these silly stories scientific fact.

Originally posted by riley
Sun Matrix, You stated Noah's flood was fact so the onus was on you.. you then had the audacity to come on this thread accusing people of not providing proof [which was a blatent lie].

All you have to do is show me the quote where I said that, it should be easy enough if I really said that.

Dreaming crap up doesn't cut it. I can't quite see your problem. I produced quotes showing what was said. Why can't you face the trurth.

It's always the same. I bring the facts, and you can't face it. It's time to deal with truth.

Okay Sunmatrix. Noah called the animals and even koalas swam all the way from australia [in one lifetime ] and ate hey instead of gum leaves.. oh and every single race, including the aboriginals, are decended from Noah even though they all existed well before his time and even though this happened before their countries were even discovered. He also was able to hand feed dinosaurs, crocodiles and lions goat's milk and honey instead of live meat.
It was a very tight squeeze so they had to be stacked on top of eachother [there were no problems with trampling] .. and there was no disease because ALL the animals deficated over the side on command.


Also.. all the animals that couldn't fit on the boat [ie. most of them] had both wings and gills back then so didn't need Noah to save them after all.

Enjoy your bliss.

[edit on 26-5-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by Census
Some of these animals are carnivorous so right away you need more food and fresh water to keep these "feeder" animals alive.

It just doesnt make an ounce of sense. How did Noah get to Canada and round up a male and female polar bear, a 3000 lb vicious killing machine and then get down to Brazil and round up a pair of jaguars and then off to Antarctica for a set of penguins and then zip over to Australia for some kangaroos.....Its all totally impossible.

Its a fable

All animals were originally vegetarian. Yes even a lion and a bear that we see today, ate grass. When Christ returns the animals will once again be returned to this state.

The animals came to Noah and all the land masses that we seperated today, were in Noah's time connected together. After the flood the seperation of the land areas occurred.

[edit on 26-5-2006 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by Enkidu
Don't you know that God created dinosaur fossils in situ as a way of testing the faith of his followers?

God is speaking here
Job 40
[15] Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
[16] Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
[17] He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
[18] His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
[19] He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
[20] Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
[21] He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
[22] The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
[23] Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
[24] He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

Enjoy your bliss.

Well, you tried to put words in my mouth, but the truth came out.

You accused me of something that was not so, but the truth came out.

It just comes down to are you man enough to face the facts, face the truth?


In spite of eveything, have a good holiday.

Originally posted by dbrandt

All animals were originally vegetarian. .

What about polar bears? Did they eat ice?

And what about sharks? Plankton perhaps?

Oh, and gettng back to Noah - have we resolved which flood it is yet? The one that lasted 40 days or the one that lasted 150 days? And did he take 7 pairs of clean animals onboard or just 2?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
You accused me of something that was not so, but the truth came out.

When did you provide proof? Never mind. I'm sorry you aren't willing to actually learn something here. Ignorance is bliss.

Originally posted by dbrandt
All animals were originally vegetarian. Yes even a lion and a bear that we see today, ate grass.

Problem with that they'd die on that diet after not too long. I don't remember the bible saying that he called the animals.. then replaced their teeth and gave them special stomach alterations to allow them to eat what they were never meant to.

The animals came to Noah and all the land masses that we seperated today, were in Noah's time connected together. After the flood the seperation of the land areas occurred.

False.

Fact: Pangea started breaking up about 225 million years ago when dinosaurs were still climbing the food chain:



..and [again] there is no evidence of a world flood 5000 years ago. Kind of a slight time discrepancy there.

[edit on 27-5-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
Problem with that they'd die on that diet after not too long. Fact: Pangea started breaking up about 225 million years ago when dinosaurs were still climbing the food chain:

The thing is God is GOD. People, even if the say they believe there is a God, will put limits on that God they claim to believe exists. Their view of God is flawed. How? because they place limits on God. God is in total control. The universe He created out of nothing and all it contains, He has the ability to sustain and intervene upon. God has no limits. The world after the flood is way different than the world before the flood.

As far as the breaking up of the continenets and animals diets. The Bible tells us different.



[edit on 27-5-2006 by dbrandt]

dbrant.. I'm truly sorry that reality and the bible tell two different stories.
If you want to believe the bible is 'real' fine but don't try sell it here. If 'He' created the laws of the universe.. he's not going to change them at the last minute as that would suggest he was fixing his own mistakes. The motto of this place is also DENY IGNORANCE. I do not consider using fables to 'prove' something as supporting this sentiment. If your opinions are fact.. science and reeality should support it.. otherwise I could start quoting from Alice in Wonderland and expect you take it as seriously as you expect me to. It is presumptious and rude.. if you want to argue with me- USE PROVEN FACTS.

Originally posted by dbrandt
God has no limits. The world after the flood is way different than the world before the flood.

Yes but this 'flood' you are talking about could not have happened when pangea existed.. unless the moses story is about 'Moses the dinosaur'. Again.. the only flood that even comes close to world wide [when modern humans existed] was 15 thousand years ago after the last ice age.

As far as the breaking up of the continenets and animals diets. The Bible tells us different.

The bible makes no mention of pangea.. kind of obvious as MAN wrote [or 'relayed' ] the bible and the bible only dates back 6000 years.. hey.. there another time discrepancy!:
215 million years/6000 years. Gotta be pretty cluey to notice that one!

Now perhaps you would now like to tell me how crocodiles [and other carnevours]ground up and digested large amounts of grass? To produce saliva and to break down thse things the mouth needs to be enclosed. Please, do not turn to your bible for your answers.. I know for a fact that it does not say "and HE dramatically altered the biology of His creations especially for the trip then changed them back." ..try apply some logic.

[edit on 28-5-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by riley

The bible makes no mention of pangea.. Now perhaps you would now like to tell me how crocodiles [and other carnevours]ground up and digested large amounts of grass? To produce saliva and to break down thse things the mouth needs to be enclosed. Please, do not turn to your bible for your answers.. I know for a fact that it does not say "and HE dramatically altered the biology of His creations especially for the trip then changed them back." ..try apply some logic.

[edit on 28-5-2006 by riley]

The lands of the earth being connected together then being divided is addressed in the Bible.

Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

1 Chronicles 1:19 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of the one was Peleg; because in his days the earth was divided: and his brother's name was Joktan.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Sorry, I turned to the Bible because it has the answers!!!!!!!!!!




[edit on 28-5-2006 by dbrandt]

[edit on 28-5-2006 by dbrandt]