Bosnian Pyramid Update

Dr. Osmanagich has been withholding the truth or inflating it because the opposition to his research was foreseen, expected and he saw it coming from a mile away.

oh so what youre saying is he was lying about it being a 12,000 year alien built pyramid because he thought people would tell him hes bonkers
can you actually read what you've been typing
you want evidence of this
use the search function and stop acting like a noob
the fact that other people have already answered these questions in depth over the last two years seems lost on you
the reason they can't be bothered to give you air time might be tied up in that, have you been in a persisitent coma
btw when did Osmaniac qualify as a doctor, last I heard he was a building contractor



[edit on 18-6-2007 by Marduk]

Originally posted by Marduk

Dr. Osmanagich has been withholding the truth or inflating it because the opposition to his research was foreseen, expected and he saw it coming from a mile away.

oh so what youre saying is he was lying about it being a 12,000 year alien built pyramid because he thought people would tell him hes bonkers
can you actually read what you've been typing
you want evidence of this
use the search function and stop acting like a noob
the fact that other people have already answered these questions in depth over the last two years seems lost on you
the reason they can't be bothered to give you air time might be tied up in that, have you been in a persisitent coma
btw when did Osmaniac qualify as a doctor, last I heard he was a building contractor

[edit on 18-6-2007 by Marduk]

I hear lemuria would have been a nice "dig" too if only it wasn't under water...

www.lemuria.net...

Oh, wait, there's a law against commenting on things already posted on this forum. I forgot...we have to bow to the gods of the first-posters.

What do I need to do? Sacrifice children into the volcano?

Here is more on the LEGEND of Lemuria...something you posted on this February here on ATS, Marduk.

Lemuria Legend

Care to offer reasons why we should research that particular piece of "non-archaeology" as well?

I hope you don't mind I actually used the search function and exposed you as a hypocrite.

[edit on 18-6-2007 by newtron25]

[edit on 18-6-2007 by newtron25]

My, my neutron you are all over the place. Lets make it easier for you.

Why don't you put down the three most evidence backed reasons that make you think it's worthwhile spending 15-20 years uncovering that hill (that is how long it would take using real archaeological methods, not bulldozers).

So what three are they? Now do try an remember that the site has existing medieval constructs on it. It is what is sometimes called a mixed layed sited. different constructs from different periods. However I believe the new age construction worker concentrated on uncovering natural formations.

Howdy Marduk have you noticed that the 'other' site with your friend Mr.P has died?

We await the three.

Originally posted by Hanslune
My, my neutron you are all over the place. Lets make it easier for you.

Why don't you put down the three most evidence backed reasons that make you think it's worthwhile spending 15-20 years uncovering that hill (that is how long it would take using real archaeological methods, not bulldozers).

So what three are they? Now do try an remember that the site has existing medieval constructs on it. It is what is sometimes called a mixed layed sited. different constructs from different periods. However I believe the new age construction worker concentrated on uncovering natural formations.

Howdy Marduk have you noticed that the 'other' site with your friend Mr.P has died?

We await the three.

Here is one reason:

In modern history, the peninsula of the Crimea Tramonto a Chersonesos
is remembered for important traumatic episodes such us the Crimean War of the mid nineteenth century, or the capture of Gorbashev and the definitive collapse of the Soviet Union, only ten years ago. Less famous to the western public is its history in classical and medieval times. Amongst several ancient Greek colonies, one of the more important is Chersonesos, on the rivers of the Black Sea, in the south-west of the Crimean peninsula (Ukraine). It is situated near the modern port of Sevastopol, founded by Catherine the Great in the mid 18th century the century, and centre, during all the Cold War, of the Black Sea fleet. Since 2001 the University of Lecce has operated within this historical context. As a result of the gradual collapse of the Roman Empire in the West during the course of the 5th century A.D., the centre of power moved from Rome to Constantinople. The Black Sea, that under the Roman Empire appeared almost marginal to the capital, now became of vital importance for the survival of Constantinople and of all the Byzantine Empire. As the West and North Africa fell to invading peoples, the Empire assigned always greater resources in assuring the integrity of the Asia Minor, the Aegean islands and the Pontus Euxinus or the Black Sea. This enormous inner sea attracted the splendid riches and resources from the Middle and Far East, from the northern steppes and from regions bordering the Baltic."

Medieval Archaeology - Lecce

Here is a second reason:

Continued on next post.........

[edit on 18-6-2007 by newtron25]

Reason Two: Because there ARE up-to-date techniques available. They are being used in the UK as we speak.

"A key area of the collection relates principally to Medieval and Post Medieval Durham. Of regional importance is the 1970s Saddler Street excavation, which includes large amounts of leatherwork (11th – 15th century), very early textiles, bone, wood and pottery. In addition, excavations from the vicinity of Durham Cathedral and the associated priories of Finchale and Bearpark are of importance for Medieval architectural studies and for archaeological research of the World Heritage church and its outstations.

In recent years, two Durham City sites, namely Leazes Bowl and Claypath, have revealed large scale, comprehensive assemblages of medieval and post medieval pottery and glass. Up-to-date archaeological recovery techniques make these important sites for future regional pottery studies into domestic and trade wares. The Claypath glass assemblage of over one hundred bottles represents the largest assemblage of Post Medieval domestic glass in the country and will be of national importance for future archaeological research into this field.

Two little known collections comprise the Eric Parsons Collection which is a large assemblage of Post Medieval clay pipes of research value for clay pipe studies in the North East, and a significant archive and photographic collection, notably the Durham Townships Survey.

Reason Three: An assortment of artifacts (but of course, they have been manufactured in a laboratory by Osmanagich, right? It's all a fakery? Right?)

Such as:




How about this:




Or how about this:





These are not the hard, hard proof you need, but you said it yourself...it would take 15 - 20 years of proper excavations to properly research this site.

After all, if something is not a walk in the park, why bother with it? Admittedly, this is an enormous site that would require a tremendous amount of time to excavate properly.

Hardly worth the effort when taken in context of the rest of medieval research happening today. And, after all, its not in Jolly Ol' England, so it's probably the equivalent of the low-rent district for the snobbish researchers who would have to travel all the way to Europe's armpit to do their excavations.

Doesn't sound to promising or glamorous, does it. Wouldn't want to have to get your hands dirty....er...I mean your post-docs hands dirty.

Oh well. Next.

Originally posted by Hanslune
My, my neutron you are all over the place. Lets make it easier for you.

Why don't you put down the three most evidence backed reasons that make you think it's worthwhile spending 15-20 years uncovering that hill (that is how long it would take using real archaeological methods, not bulldozers).

So what three are they? Now do try an remember that the site has existing medieval constructs on it. It is what is sometimes called a mixed layed sited. different constructs from different periods. However I believe the new age construction worker concentrated on uncovering natural formations.

Howdy Marduk have you noticed that the 'other' site with your friend Mr.P has died?

We await the three.

BTW, please offer your assessment of Visoko hill with your personal expertise in excavation technique providing an estimate based on man hours and approximate multi-layer site requirements based on similar digs.

I'm sure you'll be able to come up with this in a jiffy. You seem exceedingly intelligent.

You know, the point to my crazed dedication to this subject is simple and a reason you can probably relate to.

If somebody, anybody and I don't care what lost continent you believe in, claims there is something on an oddly symmetrical hill, AND they actually turn up what could be evidence....they had better finish the job one way or another.

Osmanagich has not only unearthed this hill in B-H, but he has started an argument that if he doesn't finish it, he will be leaving a virtual wound in the field of archaeology that needs to be resolved. You can't just walk into a country start digging for close to 3 years and then just walk away from the dig and your claims. Resolution must be met.

You can't ask a question that big and not answer it. That is why I am insisting that it be answered, and why I am insisting why the stick-in-the-mud skeptics give me a reason why it shouldn't be answered.

trolling trolling trolling
get that doggie trolling
lol

ROFLMAO!

Originally posted by Hanslune


Howdy Marduk have you noticed that the 'other' site with your friend Mr.P has died?

something i said ?

Originally posted by Marduk

Originally posted by Hanslune


Howdy Marduk have you noticed that the 'other' site with your friend Mr.P has died?

something i said ?

No, its your odor. Try hygiene.



[edit on 18-6-2007 by newtron25]

Originally posted by newtron25
The letter is real.

I didn't said it wasn't, its a good practice to post our sources, especially after some posts telling Marduk to post his.

Don't insult everyone with a lame attempt to discredit the website.

It wasn't my intention to discredit anything or anyone.

And how could it be an attempt to discredit a website which I didn't know before you posted your source?

And I do not work that way, if I want to discredit something I say it directly.

However, if you feel so inclined, why don't you email the cardinal yourself. I'm sure that this high ranking church official would indeed like to know if anyone has been using his name in an effort to lie about support for research.

I am sure he would like to know if someone is using his name without his knowledge, but I think that I wouldn't be the first to ask him that, if I ever thought of asking.

What other habits would you be referring to, hmmm?

Not other habits, other people.

My idea was to ask if you, like other people, were also getting the habit of not posting your sources. Unfortunately, my bad English made me make a mess of the structure of that sentence.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by newtron25
The letter is real.

I didn't said it wasn't, its a good practice to post our sources, especially after some posts telling Marduk to post his.

Don't insult everyone with a lame attempt to discredit the website.

It wasn't my intention to discredit anything or anyone.

And how could it be an attempt to discredit a website which I didn't know before you posted your source?

And I do not work that way, if I want to discredit something I say it directly.

However, if you feel so inclined, why don't you email the cardinal yourself. I'm sure that this high ranking church official would indeed like to know if anyone has been using his name in an effort to lie about support for research.

I am sure he would like to know if someone is using his name without his knowledge, but I think that I wouldn't be the first to ask him that, if I ever thought of asking.

What other habits would you be referring to, hmmm?

Not other habits, other people.

My idea was to ask if you, like other people, were also getting the habit of not posting your sources. Unfortunately, my bad English made me make a mess of the structure of that sentence.

Forgive me, then. My bad for assuming anything, including that everyone speaks perfect English.

Really, I am embarrassed to say I was showing bad American behavior.

Thank you for contributing to the thread!

hah now thats just laughable
there is no such thing as american humour bad or otherwise

unless its in cartoon format

Originally posted by Marduk
hah now thats just laughable
there is no such thing as american humour bad or otherwise

unless its in cartoon format

Figures...you probably just read for the pretty pictures anyway.

Originally posted by Marduk
hah now thats just laughable
there is no such thing as american humour bad or otherwise

unless its in cartoon format

In fact I just re-read your post. You can't read. I said "behavior", not "humor."

Yeesh.

Not a very adult thread is it, LOL

So lets see, we ask for three pieces of evidence to justify a continual dig at this site. We get two links that have nothing to do with the site and then some medieval metal working stuff, what looks to be a piece of tile and some sedmentary rock with another rock in it....

Humans have been in Europe for a long time, there are sites all over the place. A medieval site is interesting but why continue to investigate it if more important sites exist?

I would suggest that neolithic and pre-Roman Illyrian sites would be of more value and interest. Given the limited funds I'd run a robust survey of the entire country. Then dig.

Oh and you seem to be contradicting yourself about belief in the pyramids.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Not a very adult thread is it, LOL

So lets see, we ask for three pieces of evidence to justify a continual dig at this site. We get two links that have nothing to do with the site and then some medieval metal working stuff, what looks to be a piece of tile and some sedmentary rock with another rock in it....

Humans have been in Europe for a long time, there are sites all over the place. A medieval site is interesting but why continue to investigate it if more important sites exist?

I would suggest that neolithic and pre-Roman Illyrian sites would be of more value and interest. Given the limited funds I'd run a robust survey of the entire country. Then dig.

Oh and you seem to be contradicting yourself about belief in the pyramids.

It's called an evolving belief pattern. It shows that at least I am thinking as opposed to presenting a droning theme.

No, what I presented was exactly to your specifications. The links were for you to read and then to relate to what we are talking about as far as the site in Visoko...not that what he has found is a pyramid or not.

Originally, I was quite convinced that what the "contractor" had found was a pyramid. My opinion has changed, mainly because I have allowed the thoughts of other such as yourself to lead me to look into it.

I hope your mind will be equally open to entertaining the possibility that while the man did not find a pyramid, there is a possibility that he has inadvertently found a very large, and very significant archaeological dig in its own right.

And if this is the case, and if the current researcher is not fit for the job, let's get somebody else in there.

Why in the world must you continue to repeat your point? I have adapted mine to at least concede aspects of your argument as any reasonable person would.

Why won't you admit that with the links I have provided that (although one link was to a dig in UK) there are techniques available to help excavate this site in a manner that could take less than what seemed to me to be an excessive period of time (15 - 20 years?). Yes, this is most likely a multi-layer site with care needed to be taken to preserve what exists at each level and an organization in the cataloging process that will separate different times and cultures.

If anyone has been childish, it has been those who have stood like immovable stones on their premise ONLY that this is not a pyramid and not discussing what happens if it is not...and what value it could be.

It is quite easy to throw epithets, and I am guilty of that as well as anyone, but it is far more difficult to move past that and into adult conversation..

Thank you Hanslune for at least heading in that direction.

newtron

Post: Re: Hanslune....

Yes, context of this site in Visoko as it relates to the rest of Bosnia-Herzegovina is necessary. But again, like many places in the world where politics play an instrumental role in determining where and when someone can place a shovel (and how long they can dig)...I'm not sure how long researchers can continue to accept the accepted, monopolized pathways of university-led programs that are funded under strict guidelines....guidelines that are built to suit the chancellors and presidents, the board of trustees and other investors in those universities and not necessarily keep the best interests of the people and cultures involved in said research. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but if private research is to be conducted in archaeology then the work must also be coordinated with and supported by a university department, or at least the work must refer back to work done within that system.

To be more clear and succinct...if there is no profit in it, it seems the Western University Conglomerate has sewn up support of any interest outside of its areas of study that are not "safe" and "proven."

Yes, science is built upon standards. However, consider this: what if those standards have been turned so sharply to produce profit so as to influence how the greater researchers and minds are given the obvious choice of following the funding to pursue their theories.

And what is left is for the second, third (and yes, fourth or fifth) tier scientists are left literally without funding, without support and without institution to entertain, let alone pursue what may be contributory research to a given field.

I am sorry if these thoughts are, as you mentioned earlier, too childish. I hope you'll forgive the impetuous nature of my question, but allow me regardless to present it to you:

Although Osmanagic is a victim of his own avarice and over-zealous pursuit of his hypothesis, has he not also partially been unduly forced out of the establishment because of A) location of the site, B) possibility that the site may be of medieval importance, but not directly related to British medieval history and, C) unorthodoxy of his premise in beginning his research and, most importantly D) going outside the traditional university/privately supported and endorsed archaeological channels to do this work?

What say you?

[edit on 19-6-2007 by newtron25]

[edit on 19-6-2007 by newtron25]

Originally posted by newtron25
I hope your mind will be equally open to entertaining the possibility that while the man did not find a pyramid, there is a possibility that he has inadvertently found a very large, and very significant archaeological dig in its own right.

In fact, he didn't.

He was digging on a site with a number of known archaeological areas of interest, including a medieval graveyard and a very old Roman fortress. He was "digging" (I've been on digs, thank you) with a backhoe and bulldozer.

Nobody was sifting the dirt from the site (did you notice that they never found old buttons, etc?)

And if this is the case, and if the current researcher is not fit for the job, let's get somebody else in there.

If they can get him out of there. That's the problem.

He's currently been denied permits to continue because (as the Ministry concluded) what's being done there is not archaeology and he's damaging the material that is known to be there. He and his supporters are shrieking (and leveling charges of being "fascist tools" at the Ministry of Culture):
www.javno.com...

Yes, this is most likely a multi-layer site with care needed to be taken to preserve what exists at each level and an organization in the cataloging process that will separate different times and cultures.

...much of which he's already damaged, to the dismay of archaeologists worldwide. And your dig techniques are actually slower than his "bulldoze it and trim it" tactics. What slowed him down was officials starting to be suspicious of his methods.