Bosnian Pyramid Update

Whats going to happen is this:

Dr. O is going to admit to himself that its not a pyramid. Then he will announce that he is run out of money and the "archeaology cartel" is not funding or helping any and will end his operations. Nobody else will follow up on the diggings and from then on a legend will be born about "bosnian pyramids" under those hills.

Nevertheless, even if there is no pyramid there I think excitement and imagination in an explorer should be supported, not debunked. I wish there were more enthusiasts like him.

As for this entire thread, it saddens me how much energy is wasted by "sceptics" and "believers" attacking each other. Neither the fixation on being a "sceptic" nor the fixation on being a "believer" is true openness and true science. Without sceptisism Id be a grinning fool jumping from a balcony believing I can fly. Without imagination and speculation Id be a dull idiot that cant perceive beyond my own limited conclusions. Until more is known it is neither a pyramid, nor that is it not one.

And if there IS a pyramid there, that doesnt automatically mean that all scientists are conspirators or idiots. And if there is no pyramid there, that doesnt automatically mean that all alternative researches are goofballs.
And it doesnt mean there are no other yet undiscovered pyramids elsewhere.

I took balancing viewpoints as a given of any semi-intelligent human, but browsing through all these threads I can see that some people are mentally still in kindergarden.

Anyway, finding the pyramids would be great. Not finding them would mean to keep looking elsewhere.

Originally posted by newtron25
What's happening here is the wrong person PERHAPS in the right place at the right time.

If there is nothing in Visoko, let the man dig until he has spent his last penny. If there is actually something there, and Dr. O is a dangerous lunatic, then why would the greater scientific community ALLOW HIM to take backhoes to the site knowing he could be destroying priceless links to the past?

First of all, Osmanagic is not a Doctor, at least not yet. (apparently he is working on his PhD)

The problem is that Bosnian archaeologist first said that this region is well documented and inspected, and after we read more about it, it appears last archaeological digs were made at the end of 19th century?!

One of the most loud people claiming that this hill is not man made said in an interview that he didn't check location, but he is sure it's not man made.

It appears that his reaction was provoked by Osmanagic's claim that all they know to do is to sit in an office and write paper about someone's else work. (on of rare cases that I agree with Osmanagic)

Originally posted by newtron25
This all doesn't make any sense to me at all if, what some people say here, that Osmanagich is a hoaxer. Does one or two acts of hoax making destroy an entire site for what it truly is?

What if, because of where he found it and because the Bosnian government really operates this way, that he was given no choice but to entice certain people to become interested in the dig to further investigate what could become an outstanding find....if only he had the backing?

Yes, believing that the UFOs and the Mayans were buddies doesn't help his case. I'm going to guess, just a wild guess here, that in the past, crazed and insane men have discovered incredible important things before.

It appears that because of his claims (without much evidence) that so called pyramid is 12000 years old and a lot of other claims he is more then likely to loose permits for digs.

This is something I wrote long time ago, that it seems like group of geologist and archaeologists are using web and all means to discvalify Osmanagic and his project just so that they can take over it. Time will provide us with answer if this is correct.

APWR Blog Ring

I wish this thread would be kept alive with some more updates and pictures. Or does the lack of updates point to having giving up on the idea of bosnian pyramids? Cmon posters from Bosnia...whats going on over there?

Bosnian Pyramid Update for SkyFloatie

And in case you are unable to click on the link, or find this information on Google yourself, here is a pretty, pretty picture as well.






[edit on 30-5-2007 by newtron25]

Stone Detail

For those of you D-bunkers, please tell me what natural force made these detailed marks on this stone.

How about these "naturally occuring shale"?

The stone work here (not sure what part of the excavation) shows two surfaces joine at something like a 135 deg. angle. Still look like just a mausoleum of some sort? Naturally settling stones over the course of a few thousand years?

Thanks for keeping our interest alive and fresh newtron. great pics/info!

Originally posted by newtron25
Stone Detail

For those of you D-bunkers, please tell me what natural force made these detailed marks on this stone.

You posted it, you tell us what it is!

Can't see what it has to do with giant 10,000 year old pyramids....

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke

Originally posted by newtron25
Stone Detail

For those of you D-bunkers, please tell me what natural force made these detailed marks on this stone.

You posted it, you tell us what it is!

Can't see what it has to do with giant 10,000 year old pyramids....

If you have to debunk, do it thoughtfully please. I have posted what I believe are pictures of stone artifacts that may or may not lead to evidence of what Dr. Osmanagich describes as a "pyramid".

Why can't uni-directional debunkers such as yourself take your mind off of the micro-goal of hitting a home run with each post? With making that one pithy statement that just propels you like a rocket into the skeptic Hall of fame?

This isn't professional sports, its a forum of ideas. The pictures, in my under-educated view, depict evidence that what Dr. O is uncovering is not insignificant and worthy of further excavation. Regardless of whether he A) believes in aliens and Atlantis, B) he hoaxed evidence, which coincidentally no one has proven that he has actually done or C) that what we are looking at fits nice and neat inside the defition of a pyramid.

First of all, if need be, I would want someone to declare what Dr. O is doing there a sham and take over the work...IF AND ONLY IF what the man is doing there is considered "illegal" or out of bounds as far as research goes.

Second of all, Fr.Luke, if what you and many declare to be true, i.e. "It's not a pyramid like he said, throw him out, fill it in with dirt and put our collective heads back in the sand on this issue.", then I would be interested to hear about the countless other scientific efforts that were the result of a mistake or error in initial methodology that lead to a greater more significant discovery.

I'll bet you can't list any.

Here's an example for you to start with:

Happy Accident and the LED Light

An excerpt from that article:

~~~~~~~~~

Happy accident

Michael Bowers, a graduate student at Vanderbilt University, was just trying to make really small quantum dots, which are crystals generally only a few nanometers big. That's less than 1/1000th the width of a human hair.

Quantum dots contain anywhere from 100 to 1,000 electrons. They're easily excited bundles of energy, and the smaller they are, the more excited they get. Each dot in Bower's particular batch was exceptionally small, containing only 33 or 34 pairs of atoms.

When you shine a light on quantum dots or apply electricity to them, they react by producing their own light, normally a bright, vibrant color. But when Bowers shined a laser on his batch of dots, something unexpected happened.

"I was surprised when a white glow covered the table," Bowers said. "The quantum dots were supposed to emit blue light, but instead they were giving off a beautiful white glow."

Then Bowers and another student got the idea to stir the dots into polyurethane and coat a blue LED light bulb with the mix. The lumpy bulb wasn't pretty, but it produced white light similar to a regular light bulb.

The new device gives off a warm, yellowish-white light that shines twice as bright and lasts 50 times longer than the standard 60 watt light bulb.

This work is published online in the Oct. 18 edition of the Journal of the American Chemical Society.

Better than bulbs

Until the last decade, LEDs could only produce green, red, and yellow light, which limited their use. Then came blue LEDs, which have since been altered to emit white light with a light-blue hue.

LEDs produce twice as much light as a regular 60 watt bulb and burn for over 50,000 hours. The Department of Energy estimates LED lighting could reduce U.S. energy consumption for lighting by 29 percent by 2025. LEDs don't emit much heat, so they're also more energy efficient. And they're much harder to break.

Other scientists have said they expect LEDs to eventually replace standard incandescent bulbs as well as fluorescent and sodium vapor lights.

If the new process can be developed into commercial production, light won't come just from newfangled bulbs. Quantum dot mixtures could be painted on just about anything and electrically excited to produce a rainbow of colors, including white.

~~~~~~~~

But "They" could have thrown out his research because it was found on accident. Oops. Sorry. Whoever "They" are. Do you know "They", Fr. Luke?

[edit on 1-6-2007 by newtron25]

[edit on 1-6-2007 by newtron25]

Bronze Age Mould?

If true, then this would not be, as Fr. Luke proclaimed, as old as 10,000.

It would be a paltry 3,000 years old potentially. Sorry, folks. Go home, there's nothing to see here. Just maybe a mine with some dumb old forms to make tools. Move along.




Yup, nothing to see here. Not research worthy. Probably an alien artifact from Atlantis, so don't bother. (sarcasm, sarcasm )

Originally posted by newtron25
The Egyptians Poured Their Own Cement to Make the Pyramids

Look at some of the unusual large slabs of cement they have found in Visoko. Compare to the research they have on the pyramids...

Anyone?

Well, that's not research. It's a very loud person with an unfounded opinion who ignores the three main issues with his idea:
* the records on the Giza plain of the workmen talk about getting limestone from the quarry (they mention loads being delivered)
* the blocks have very obvious chisel marks on them.
* NONE of the blocks are the same size (this would mean that if you "poured the blocks" you made a mold for each and every single block and you didn't reuse the mold. This doesn't make sense. They knew how to make reusable molds, because that's how they fabricated the adobe bricks for their houses.)

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by newtron25
The Egyptians Poured Their Own Cement to Make the Pyramids

Look at some of the unusual large slabs of cement they have found in Visoko. Compare to the research they have on the pyramids...

Anyone?

Well, that's not research. It's a very loud person with an unfounded opinion who ignores the three main issues with his idea:
* the records on the Giza plain of the workmen talk about getting limestone from the quarry (they mention loads being delivered)
* the blocks have very obvious chisel marks on them.
* NONE of the blocks are the same size (this would mean that if you "poured the blocks" you made a mold for each and every single block and you didn't reuse the mold. This doesn't make sense. They knew how to make reusable molds, because that's how they fabricated the adobe bricks for their houses.)

Dude, whoa, you are making nooooo sense whatsoever. How in the name of all things pyramidal did you sublimate to BUILDING block molds from the picture I showed you????

Go to the website and see, they are not saying that this picture has anything whatsoever to do with pouring a building block. Possibly with pouring metal into to fashion a tool or implement, yes, but look at the shape, man.

The post I made earlier was an attempt to breathe life of interest into this thread in so far as to say that we may not know all that we think we do, even in regards to the pyramids in Egypt which have been studied for sometime now by many, many people. (NOT that I'm saying the Visoko find is a pyramid. I am being quite cautious with you and others who are reading this post, lest I give you material to pounce on for your debunkification posts. You apparently can do that all on your own...)

Time and time again, I personally, not Dr. O, have said that its possible that the correlations that drew the Bosnian maniac to conclude a connection between Egypt and the Visoko site are valuable only in that it may lead to the actual truth.

Slamming the research time and time again does NOTHING!!! ZILCH! NADA!!!!!! All it does is apparently feed some tiny little ego you keep alive in a room down in your soul that enjoys beating up on theory and supposition. Yippee.

With that, I quit this thread, enjoy the remains, vultures.

Originally posted by newtron25
If there is nothing in Visoko, let the man dig until he has spent his last penny. If there is actually something there, and Dr. O is a dangerous lunatic, then why would the greater scientific community ALLOW HIM to take backhoes to the site knowing he could be destroying priceless links to the past?

They aren't allowing it. In fact, there's been worldwide protests to the government because he IS destroying material (medieval fort, old Roman fort, medieval graveyard, etc.)

Who is allowing it is the Bosnian government. The Prime Minister refused to honor the cancellation of Osmanagic's digging permits. An official of the city of Visoko stated that opponents of Osmanagic should be refused permits to dig and their academic degrees should be revoked.
apwr-central.blog.com...

What if, because of where he found it and because the Bosnian government really operates this way, that he was given no choice but to entice certain people to become interested in the dig to further investigate what could become an outstanding find....if only he had the backing?

Actually, he started it with his own money (he's wealthy, and the area is desperately poor.) The country is eager to redeem itself as an important place in the eyes of the world and they're willing to buy into Osmanagic's fantasies.

And it's pure fantasy.

Originally posted by newtron25
Dude, whoa, you are making nooooo sense whatsoever. How in the name of all things pyramidal did you sublimate to BUILDING block molds from the picture I showed you????

You mentioned pyramids in that link and linked to the "the pyramids were made from cast concrete" and then asked about it in relation to the site.

Answer: the theory isn't plausible, and I explained why.

Slamming the research time and time again does NOTHING!!!

What research?

Seriously. He announced there was a pyramid and brought in backhoes to carve up the landscape.

with the courtesy of Bosnian-Pyramid.com



Looks very natural, isn't it?

However, let's be scientific:

Example of natural sandstone block, correct?



the sedimentation lines of the stones are clearly visible.

Usually, in nature the sedimentation process occurs horizontally.

Question: why the stones/ sedimentation lines are set vertically into the ground?


Lovely greetings from Bosnian-Pyramid.com (incl. the unscientific debunkers).




[edit on 2-6-2007 by Hyperborean]

Deleted posts, per your request, Hyperborian. And yes, those are limestone blocks with a very nice sedimentation line in them.

8 May 2006, 15:30 (GMT+2:00) : Tuzla (FENA). Professors from the Faculty of Mining and Geology at the University of Tuzla, acting members of the Geological explorations team that did geological studies of the Visocica hill near Visoko (the locality of an alleged Bosnian pyramid), presented today at a press conference in Tuzla the final results of their research completed at the request by the Foundation "Arheološki park Bosanska piramida sunca" Visoko. The team leader Professor Dr. Sejfudin Vrabac said that they have concluded that Visocica hill is a natural geological formation, made of classic sediments of layered composition and varying thickness, and that its shape is a consequence of endodynamical and egsodynamical process in post-Miocene era. According to Professor Vrabac who specializes in paleogeology, there are dozens of like morphological formations in the Sarajevo-Zenica mining basin alone. The Geological team report on Visocica, based on the data collected in six drill holes at 3 to 17 m depths, is supported by the Research and Teaching Council of the Faculty of Mining and Geology, as well as the Association of Geologists of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

www.google.co.uk...
you believers out there might want to check the date of that announcement
and then when youve done that you might want to ask why it was that this geological survey which was ordered by Semir Osmaganic is not published anywhere at the official sun pyramid site ?

if you have a reasonable answer to that question then I'd like to hear it
til then I shall just have to presume that Osmaganic like every single other pseudo archaeologist before him will happily hide any evidence that contradicts his theory as long as the money is still rolling in

you heard it here first
if youd been paying attention youd have heard it everywhere else over a year ago but obviously you were too busy wondering why this obviously genuine pyramid was not centre stage at the worlds media to notice you were conned

Originally posted by Marduk

8 May 2006, 15:30 (GMT+2:00) : Tuzla (FENA). Professors from the Faculty of Mining and Geology at the University of Tuzla, acting members of the Geological explorations team that did geological studies of the Visocica hill near Visoko (the locality of an alleged Bosnian pyramid), presented today at a press conference in Tuzla the final results of their research completed at the request by the Foundation "Arheološki park Bosanska piramida sunca" Visoko. The team leader Professor Dr. Sejfudin Vrabac said that they have concluded that Visocica hill is a natural geological formation, made of classic sediments of layered composition and varying thickness, and that its shape is a consequence of endodynamical and egsodynamical process in post-Miocene era. According to Professor Vrabac who specializes in paleogeology, there are dozens of like morphological formations in the Sarajevo-Zenica mining basin alone. The Geological team report on Visocica, based on the data collected in six drill holes at 3 to 17 m depths, is supported by the Research and Teaching Council of the Faculty of Mining and Geology, as well as the Association of Geologists of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

www.google.co.uk...
you believers out there might want to check the date of that announcement
and then when youve done that you might want to ask why it was that this geological survey which was ordered by Semir Osmaganic is not published anywhere at the official sun pyramid site ?

if you have a reasonable answer to that question then I'd like to hear it
til then I shall just have to presume that Osmaganic like every single other pseudo archaeologist before him will happily hide any evidence that contradicts his theory as long as the money is still rolling in

you heard it here first
if youd been paying attention youd have heard it everywhere else over a year ago but obviously you were too busy wondering why this obviously genuine pyramid was not centre stage at the worlds media to notice you were conned

Those people are 'simple' geologists clueless about ancient construction methods and opposers of the project (as you are). They've spent 1.30 Hrs in situ to do 'analysis', before the excvation works began.

All Egyptians confirmed the structures to be man-made. Dr. Aly Barakat spent 42 days in situ (you 0 hrs).

But, let's try again to be scientific:

the sedimentation lines of the above stones are clearly visible.

Usually, in nature the sedimentation process occurs horizontally.

Question: why the stones/ sedimentation lines are set vertically into the ground?


If you know the answer, you begun to be scientific!

Originally posted by Hyperborean
Those people are 'simple' geologists clueless about ancient construction methods and opposers of the project (as you are). They've spent 1.30 Hrs in situ to do 'analysis', before the excvation works began.

they were hired by Osmaganic to support his hypothesis
they are all geologists very familair with the region and its strata

Originally posted by Hyperborean
All Egyptians confirmed the structures to be man-made. Dr. Aly Barakat spent 42 days in situ (you 0 hrs).

then I am surprised that you are not aware of the lies surrounding his appointment to the pyramid sunca foundation
about how Osmaganic claimed he was sent by Zahi Hawass right up until Hawass denied any involvement and stated that Barakat was not an expert on pyramids

Originally posted by Hyperborean
But, let's try again to be scientific:

you haven't started yet

Originally posted by Hyperborean
the sedimentation lines of the above stones are clearly visible.

so what ?

Originally posted by Hyperborean
Usually, in nature the sedimentation process occurs horizontally.

er yes

Originally posted by Hyperborean
Question: why the stones/ sedimentation lines are set vertically into the ground?

because the stones were placed there by men perhaps ?

Originally posted by Hyperborean
If you know the answer, you begun to be scientific!

oh right now I see your point
perhaps you can tell me from which point of the hill these stones are situated
after all its well known that there was extensive fortifying of quite a lot of the hillside by King Stefan when he had his royal palace there in the mid 1300s
and after that perhaps you can tell me what happens to a limestone block that has been in the ground in a temperate climate for over 12,000 years like Osmaganic is claiming

do they always look that well preserved if they are that old ?
to me that looks barely a day over 700 years old
say what period did King stefan have his palace up their ?

oh another thing
please tell me of any pyramid you know of that is built out of tiny blocks like that which are laid flat on the ground ?

The stone work here (not sure what part of the excavation) shows two surfaces joine at something like a 135 deg. angle. Still look like just a mausoleum of some sort?

newtron - It cannot be a mausoleum of ANY sort in ANY case. Look at the time periods when these pyramids or the images in your photos relate to. There can be a correlation to a TEMPLE of some sort but definately not a mausoleum. I am aware that there are lot of people out there trying to prove an Islamic connection to the whole issue and they are willing to give the shirts off their backs to prove it,but believe me...there is no connection whatsoever to any kind of Islamic entity. Want a proof? Ask me.