Religion is not the big killer. Masonry is.

Oh, I believe another mason called it a pedestal... No... Its aAltar. Read the link, then dispute if its a altar or not.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by Distracto]

Originally posted by Distracto
Oh, I believe another mason called it a pedestal... No... Its aAltar. Read the link, then dispute if its a altar or not.

Trinityman lives in England, and English Lodges do not have altars. I live in the United States, and here we do have altars.

All that knowledge, and you did nothing to clarify that fact until now??(its been mentioned about 10 times) Interesting...

[edit on 16-6-2006 by Distracto]

Originally posted by Distracto
Oh, I believe another mason called it a pedestal... No... Its aAltar. Read the link, then dispute if its a altar or not.

An altar by definition is a used for religios things only, religios ceremonys, sacrifices.

It is an altar, they called it over and over an altar among the threads, some to defend them selfs invoked that they have bibles in altars in lodges, that every lodge has an altar an a bible, they didint know what they were doing and that they were ginving them self away, they just teamed up.
The bible does not mean anything to them, it has no value, it just showed up in the last posts, the bible is just kept there for new mebers , and then it's explained to them that the text of the bible is wrong and that other factors in fact are the right way.
It's asame there were only 2 of them here, I wanted to snap 50 at once arguing over that the bible is not acurate.
The only way is to get them in a situation where they have to pick a road, when they get there, they find them self with out explenation, further more some start insulting, or try to get out some how by not responding.
I could of keept at it days arguing with them the bible is correct, there would probaly show up 100 of them saying it's not correct.
But when they are in dificulty they invoke the bible and deffend by it, we have a bible in the lodge we have one................
I dont care what they belive in all I want to show is that their dishonest and corupt and have a mass influece over religion, intrest groups,they implement new things that suits them.
while tring to sustain their cause by the bible wont work so they chose tricks.

Originally posted by pepsi78
"
In Masonry, the All Seeing Eye is the symbol of the omnipresence of God. There is also an esoteric, occult meaning to the Eye, although it is not used in Masonry, but sheds light on its origin as a symbol."

Do you agree this has nothing to do with the god from the bible even if you think such god form the bible does not exist , just for comparation

To the Christian, the All Seeing Eye represents the God of the Bible. To the Muslim, it represents Allah. To the ancient Egyptians, it represented Horus, and to the ancient inhabitants of India it represented Shiva.

Life can continue to exist thru artificial light for worming it's a bit dificult but that can also be puled of with out the sun, but you seem to give a holy aurora to the sun rather than call it scientific.

No. If the sun burnt out today, nothing on earth would survive. You cannot create artificial light and heat without the sun being there, at least not for long.

"So you've said, I'm just waiting for some proof. I've never seen the square and compass used on any papyrus or in hieroglyphs, or in religious sites, which they no doubt would have been if they were in fact "one of the biggest simbols of aicient egipt" (sic). "

I'm sorry I had it shown just like the piramid, but it would be dificult to obtain now , I lost the pic I dont have the source anymore

How convenient.

I asked a question, since all masons belive the same that the bible has been proven wrong, then why do you keep one in every lodge?

I didn't say all Masons. It doesn't matter if you're a Mason or not, it's impossible to believe everything the Bible says unless you're at least marginally schizophrenic.

Either you find some excuse not to aswer or dont answer directly, if there is nothing to hide aswer my questions.

Now you're just lying. Not only have I answered all your questions directly, I've even corrected your historical errors. If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

mass influece over religion, intrest groups

Not to mention geo-politics. The foundation of the United States was a Freemasonic effort. The majority of the founding fathers were Freemasons (as I'm sure you know.)

Do you realize how powerful a/an person/organization has to be to get their emblem minted?

Originally posted by Distracto
All that knowledge, and you did nothing to clarify that fact until now??(its been mentioned about 10 times) Interesting...

This is the first time I've seen an altar mentioned, but haven't followed this thread too closely until today. Regardless, in American Lodges, the Altar stands in the center of the Lodge room, and upon it are what we call the Three Great Lights of Masonry: an opened Bible, with a Square and Compass placed upon it.

In England, to my understanding, the Great Lights rest on the Master's pedestal instead of an altar.

In Lodges Volumes of The Sacred Law are opened on an Altar and Masons take their Obligations on their chosen religious book.

Quoted From- www.grandlodge.org.uk...
Yes, the UK. They have altars too.

To the Christian, the All Seeing Eye represents the God of the Bible.

Show me the paragraf , there is no such thing, since it represets god form the bible I will wait to see where it writen in the bible, there in no such thing.

No. If the sun burnt out today, nothing on earth would survive. You cannot create artificial light and heat without the sun being there, at least not for long.

Sure you can all you need is wind, you can get electicity even out of rocks.
Plus there is nuclear energy that does not depend on the sun.

I asked a question, since all masons belive the same that the bible has been proven wrong, then why do you keep one in every lodge?

I didn't say all Masons. It doesn't matter if you're a Mason or not, it's impossible to believe everything the Bible says unless you're at least marginally schizophrenic.

Then show me one that belives in the bible, there are none, expresing the bible as it is it will come in contradiction with masonic teachings, not only that but it will not represent god the way masons do.
the bible and masonic teachings dont mix.
We can begin when you are ready I know when it comes to the bible what is and what is not.



[edit on 16-6-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Distracto


Quoted From- www.grandlodge.org.uk...
Yes, the UK. They have altars too.

That's a fake Masonic organization. The real Grand Lodge of England is the United Grand Lodge of England, and its website is here. English Lodges do not use altars.

Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by Trinityman
pepsi78

I think you're getting mixed up between Masonic Light and me. It would appear that's not the only thing you're mixed up about.

Your just evoiding my quotes,got material show it, links please.

What are you on about please? What quotes? What links would you like to see? Are you playing some sort of a game?

else you dont expect us to take your word for it, masonic dogma is a mix of aicient egiptian and mesopotanian culture, I got pictures of masonic lodges with little angels with goat feet on the doors of the lodge, little mesopotanians worshiping painted all over the walls of the lodge.

Unlikely. What's your point?

And for the eye you sustain it's the eye of god, which is not the case.

Freemasons use the all-seeing eye as a metaphor for God. All our actions and errors are seen by Him, and we must be prepared to be accountable for them in the Final Analysis.

You dontmake sence my friend, you tell me not to pick on cristianity but later say that the bible has been proven wrong, in other words the bible is not valid, there for cristianity is not valid.

Please direct me to the post where I said the Bible is wrong.

That is just your way of geting out of the mess.

What mess is it that you think I am trying to get out of?

by the way why do you keep bibles in the lodge since they dont represent the true word for you? I can not see why, it must be to convince fools .

It is true that fools can be convinced of any old rubbish

Originally posted by Distracto

mass influece over religion, intrest groups

Not to mention geo-politics. The foundation of the United States was a Freemasonic effort. The majority of the founding fathers were Freemasons (as I'm sure you know.)

Do you realize how powerful a/an person/organization has to be to get their emblem minted?

Yes compas , statue of liberty, the piramid and the eye, it makes sence, the fact that is disturbing is influence in religion, now you dont even know who god is anymore,changes after changes makes you wonder,the only thing untoched is the bible.

Freemasons use the all-seeing eye as a metaphor for God.

So did the aicient egiptians for horus
I dont buy it esecialy because it's on a piramid, especialy because the bible does not suport that, because god has nothing to do with the sun.
Get back at me when you grab that paragraph out of the bible.
You got no proof for that.
Piramids with eyes on top of them you will only find them in egipt.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Distracto


Quoted From- www.grandlodge.org.uk...
Yes, the UK. They have altars too.

That's a fake Masonic organization. The real Grand Lodge of England is the United Grand Lodge of England, and its website is here. English Lodges do not use altars.

Quite correct. The clue is written clearly on the front page. GRAND LODGE OF FREEMASONRY FOR MEN AND WOMEN. Anyone who knows anything about freemasonry will know that this organization is irregular as it admits women. ML has given you a link to my Grand Lodge, the United Grand Lodge of England. I advise both you and Pepsi78 to take a little time to read the information about freemasonry on that site - it will dispell many of the misconceptions that you appear to have about the fraternity.

So, to conclude, the word Altar is not used universally across freemasonry. I have no idea why this information is important to you, but there it is.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Distracto


Quoted From- www.grandlodge.org.uk...
Yes, the UK. They have altars too.

That's a fake Masonic organization. The real Grand Lodge of England is the United Grand Lodge of England, and its website is here. English Lodges do not use altars.

Quite correct. The clue is written clearly on the front page. GRAND LODGE OF FREEMASONRY FOR MEN AND WOMEN. Anyone who knows anything about freemasonry will know that this organization is irregular as it admits women. ML has given you a link to my Grand Lodge, the United Grand Lodge of England. I advise both you and Pepsi78 to take a little time to read the information about freemasonry on that site - it will dispell many of the misconceptions that you appear to have about the fraternity.

So, to conclude, the word Altar is not used universally across freemasonry. I have no idea why this information is important to you, but there it is.

No it's used, by masons, by sites created by masons, saying it's not used would be a lie, furtehrmore I told you the problem is the bible and it does not fit with anithing you say.
Where is the paragraf sustaining all those simbols you cant seem to find them?
Ohh that must mean they dont relate to the god from the bible.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
I dont buy it esecialy because it's on a piramid, especialy because the bible does not suport that, because god has nothing to do with the sun.

Okay... if you say so...

Genesis 1:16
And God made the two great lights: the greater light to be the ruler of the day, and the smaller light to be the ruler of the night: and he made the stars.

Sun Monkeys, not just for laying out at the beach all day anymore...

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by pepsi78
I dont buy it esecialy because it's on a piramid, especialy because the bible does not suport that, because god has nothing to do with the sun.

Okay... if you say so...

Genesis 1:16
And God made the two great lights: the greater light to be the ruler of the day, and the smaller light to be the ruler of the night: and he made the stars.

Sun Monkeys, not just for laying out at the beach all day anymore...

lol that proves god made the sun and the moon and the universe really what does that prove? nothing, it's like saying look good made the rocks so we must pray to the rocks, really besides saying he made them there is nothing out there.

God said
And in my honor draw suns above piramids and wear them as a simbol of me,
because I'm represented by the sun.
Where is that, I dont see it?
There is no such thing, it's an invention, in fact god says on his 10 commandemnt not to carv stuff not to draw stuff and not tomake icons out of him.


[edit on 16-6-2006 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
It is an altar, they called it over and over an altar among the threads, some to defend them selfs invoked that they have bibles in altars in lodges, that every lodge has an altar an a bible, they didint know what they were doing and that they were ginving them self away, they just teamed up.

I imagine you are referring to American freemasons, who apparently have something called an altar in their lodges. The rest I can't quite make sense of, and I'd be grateful if you would take the trouble to check your posts for spelling, grammer and sense as they can be hard to follow sometimes.

The bible does not mean anything to them, it has no value, it just showed up in the last posts, the bible is just kept there for new mebers , and then it's explained to them that the text of the bible is wrong and that other factors in fact are the right way.

Did you just make this up? You are starting to lose me, which is unfortunate as I actually think that somewhere deep down in this confusing brierbush of syntax and overlapping posts there is an interesting viewpoint struggling to get out.

It's asame there were only 2 of them here, I wanted to snap 50 at once arguing over that the bible is not acurate.

Given that many Christians cannot agree over which aspects of the Bible are 'breathed truth' and which are allegorical this ia pointless exercise. But I thought you said that freemasons do not worship the Christian God - why would 'they' be so concerned about the Bible in this case?

The only way is to get them in a situation where they have to pick a road, when they get there, they find them self with out explenation, further more some start insulting, or try to get out some how by not responding.

Who are you talking to with these comments? Who are 'them' and 'they'? Ever get the feeling that someones talking aloud about you whilst your still in the room?

I dont care what they belive in all I want to show is that their dishonest and corupt and have a mass influece over religion, intrest groups,they implement new things that suits them.
while tring to sustain their cause by the bible wont work so they chose tricks.

And why do you want to show this? It would appear you have a clear anti-masonic agenda which has nothing whatsoever to do with conspiracy theory or denying ignorance.

Originally posted by pepsi78
How many share you view on the bible from the masonic ranks?
Do you all sustain the same?

I am within the 'Masonic ranks', and I do not share his view on the Bible.

To me, the Bible is a creation of generations of men and politics, a (poorly edited and contradictory) collection of stories, fables, and anecdotes, and a great look at how organized religion has been used as a historical political motivational tool for the unwashed masses.

Does that opinion make me evil? Not quite...

Does that opinion mean that Masonry is incompatible with 'crestinity'? No. It is *my* opinion. *Many* of my brothers have religious views that are different than mine. And that's the beauty of it... we treasure faith. The specifics of what or whom you put your faith in are up to each brother.

You still havent provided those paargrafs
Where is the piramid and the eye in the bible?
Where are all the simbols in the bible?
There are none, it says clear not to carv images of god and then make them as simbols, so there for it';s in contradiction with the bible.