Over Three Hundred Disproofs of God�s Existence

Originally posted by jagdflieger

Quote from satyr
And you're calling me a troll??? This thread is a troll! Just as that webpage, it was designed only to piss off atheists, was it not?

You were not compelled to read this page, you were not compelled to reply. The very first post should have told you what the thread was about. You of your own free will made posts into this thread. Therefore you have no legitimate complaint. Your posts have shown that you have not really done much study in either the Christian faith of in the beliefs of other major religions. All we have seen from you are complaints. Why don't you just go to the moderators and complain and have this thread removed if it upsets you so much. No one stood behind you with a gun to your back to force you to read this thread. It is time for the atheists to grow up and start behaving like they have some brains and some class.

You've learned well from the holy babble. You're able to twist any bit of logic to mean whatever you want, to you. Then you get angry when others don't see it the way you see it in your delusional little world. You're trying to tell me that you posted this with good intentions? Bull#! It's the intention that determines a troll. You don't see me posting anti-xian threads, do you? You're not only a hateful sinner, you're also a liar. I'll read anything I want on a public forum. I'll also post if I feel like it.
I'm done arguing with you. You're obviously just not capable of reason. I hope you're happy in hell. That's where you'll be going, if your beliefs are true.

Let me remind you of what your opening post said....

Originally posted by jagdflieger
For my dear Christian friends on this Forum I offer the following link which summarizes the typical atheist argument about the existence of God. Somewhere in this web page you will find an example of the thought process utilized in typical atheist logic and argument:

Are you really so naive to think that non-xians won't click a link, because you say it's for your xian friends? If I only want my friends to see a link, I use email. DUH!!!!

[Edited on 10-12-2003 by Satyr]

Well, jagd, you asked for those Bible passages and here they are.

Leviticus 26:14-22
Deuteronomy 28:15-28
Numbers 11:1 (dead for complaining)
Ezekiel 5:11-13
Hosea 13:16 (That is the passage where women are ripped open when they are pregnant).

1, 2 This is about those who don't follow his commandments.
4. When a community sins


The point is, there might be a God but I don't think so. I guess you could call me an "anti-theist." I am against the Christian doctrine.

you'd think that people discussing religion would be a bit less like the asses they're showing themselves to be.

This is why I dislike religious discussion in the first place. But since I'm making the post, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I consider myself a Christian because I believe in Jesus coming to Earth and making that ultimate sacrifice for us. I do not consider myself a member of a denomination because that is a restraint on belief that I find extremely distasteful. I do my best not to judge others based o their religious beliefs, but I am after all only human. Would someone please define forcing their views? I have always seen it as things like making your kids go to church, or forcing someone to agree with your religious point of view on a matter. I have not read anyplace in this thread of that happening, and referring to what magestica posted, proof is simply information(valid or not) that supports someone's beliefs, something that they approve of. Proof only works on those interested in the same viewpoint and is virtually useless unless provided to someone with a shaky belief system.

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
The point is, there might be a God but I don't think so. I guess you could call me an "anti-theist." I am against the Christian doctrine.

So basically you don't believe in God, but you acknowledge the existence of a supernatural being/s?

Originally posted by darkhowling
I consider myself a Christian because I believe in Jesus coming to Earth and making that ultimate sacrifice for us.

Can you explain how Jesus dying can possibly be interpreted as a sacrifice "for us"? How in the hell can a death of anyone have any effect on the rest of the population? Don't you see how ridiculous this claim is? "For us", how? What do you think you gained from that murder? Why would you still consider this murderous god a "good" god? This will never make any sense to me. Haven't we grown past the belief that sacrifice is beneficial yet? I mean, we don't offer sacrifices anymore. You'd think there'd be a reason for that, wouldn't you? (Like maybe someone finally figured out that it's ridiculous!) But then, we still have xians out there that think people should be stoned for not believing as they do. It would be "god's will". How sick is that?

Ask most Jews why they do not accept or recognize Jesus as the Messiah and you will probably get the answer, "Because Messiahs don�t die!" What the Jews expected in a Messiah in Jesus� day was victory over the enemy, not death at the hands of the enemy. And, for Jesus intentionally to provoke his crucifixion makes no sense at all to the Jew, to the Gentile of that day, nor to most of the church today.

We believe the cross is important, we believe the crucifixion is central to our faith, but we don�t know why. We hang the cross around our necks but we�re not sure why. If I went around this room and asked each of you why Jesus sacrificed his life, what would you answer? I imagine most of us would have phrases come to our lips which have been taught to us, but we have not thought much about, or analyzed to ascertain the meaning for today. Some may say, "Christ died for our sins," but what does that mean? Some may say, "Jesus took my place on the cross, sacrificed for my sins," but we don�t believe in a God who requires some kind of sacrifice before God can forgive. Some may say, "Jesus atoned for the sins of humankind by dying on the cross," but again, we don�t believe in a God who requires and is influenced by a death atonement.

members.tripod.com...

Look at maynardsthirdeye's examples. This god is anything but a loving, kind god. He's more of an insecure, vengeful bastard! Why in the hell would a god care if some piss ants like us even knew he existed? Why would that matter to a god at all?

www.godrules.net...
www.godrules.net...
www.godrules.net...
www.godrules.net...
www.godrules.net...

[Edited on 10-12-2003 by Satyr]

magestica:
Some months ago, there was a post called "300 proofs to GODs existance" which was
nothing more than a title with a link to a web page. This link led to a web page which was
written by atheists and was intended to ridicule Christians. Indeed there was no indication
in the post that this was the situation. I have noticed that you did not post in that thread
that the post was misleading. Also none of the posters who posted in this thread
complaining that they were mislead complained in the "300 proofs to GODs existance"
thread about that post being meant to mislead. They all thought it was great fun and even
one of our esteemed moderators thought it was great fun to poke fun at Christianity with a
misleading post. Now you are complaining about being mislead when the very first words
in my post were �For my dear Christian friends on this Forum�. Perhaps it is because
people do not really read anymore; however, I find this as a double standard. The attitude
at this Forum is that the poster of "300 proofs to GODs existance" was presenting a valid
argument, but that I am attempting to mislead when there was a written commentary prior
to the link to �tektonics.org� which indicated the contents of the web page.
The Blade Runner:
Ultimately whether you believe or not believe in the existence is God is a matter of faith;
however, the belief in God�s existence is not the �blind leap of faith� that the skeptics
would like you to think. It is reasonable to believe that God exists. There are web pages
to which I can link which present good reasons to believe in the existence God. However
I will not list them here unless requested by someone. The reason is that the information
presented in these pages is extensive and many of our readers would complain that it
would be unfair that they be expected to read more than a few words. Today we seem to
have more and more people who want �sound bytes� and �word bullets� and are unwilling
to study a web page of a few hundred words. As for us being the �the scum of the
universe�, well that is only your opinion of mankind. If you wish to believe that, feel free
to do so. As for myself, I think we are very special. If you think that is �very arrogant�
and �we have no meaning�, then the very tenets of any theistic belief would be foreign to
your way of thinking. For all theistic beliefs (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism,
Zoroastrianism, etc.) state that there is a special relationship between mankind and the
Creator God. Unless you wish to go beyond the concept that mankind is �the scum of the
universe�, then there is not much that can be said to make you believe in the existence of a
Loving God.
However, you belief that �organised religion its whats holding the human race back� is
incorrect and shows a skewed attitude. You mention �shear hypocracy of organised
religion� (based on a motion picture). Yes there are hypocrites in a faiths including the
skeptics who cry �free speech� when they feel that their rights to say and write whatever
they feel like is threatened but remain strangely quiet when the rights of theists to say and
write their view point is threatened. Indeed there is a double standard. Here is an
example; the following quotes come from other threads:

Arg! Christian fundies - no... ANY fundies deserve to be imprisoned.
What interests me is why Christians feel this need to defend an "all powerful God"

Christianity poses a threat to all humankind, firstly I feel ashamed I am one of a race of
which some individuals believe in christianity,

No one called these posters to question for their comments (here is a poster at ATS who
wants to put me in prison for my beliefs). How am I to respond to that? Could you
imagine the uproar it would cause at ATS if a Christian were to make a post like the ones
above but substituted atheist for Christian and atheism for Christianity? Such a poster
would probably be banned within seconds. Yet no one ever made a single comment about
the posts made by the non-Christians. Yes it is a double standard.

Also should we stop believing in a faith because there are hypocrites within that faith?
Does this invalidate that faith? Using that kind of logic, then we should stop advocating
Constitutional law and the Bill of Rights because a bunch of hypocrites in our government
are telling us that they are defending our liberty by destroying our freedoms. Now do you
see the illogic of pointing to hypocrites and saying that invalidates the belief. Using the
same argument you can point to our current government and say that invalidates the belief
that the Constitution should be the primary law of the land.

However your contention that it is still a matter of faith is correct. Even when
extraordinary events happen to us, it is still a matter of faith that this event was caused by
God. Moses saw a burning bush and heard a voice. He accepted that as a communication
from God; he could have decided that he was out in the bush too long and needed a rest
because he had gone delusional. Paul went blind and heard the voice of Jesus; Paul
decided on faith that God had communicated to him. Paul could have decided that he had
suffered sunstroke and went home. I had an extraordinary event happen to me, I decided
that it was a revelation of God (a mini miracle). I could have chalked the entire episode to
random chance and forgot about it (if you believe in trillion to 1 odds), but I accepted it as
a matter of belief that God had directly revealed Himself to me. Yes it is faith in the end,
for in all these cases the person involved could have decided that this was just some
random event, but instead they decided to use faith and believe.

Satyr, do you have a full understanding of the way Jewish religion worked in those days? Assuming you don't, I'll explain. The most flawless lamb was selected from a flock of specially cultivated sheep to act as a pure, innocent sacrifice to God in order to atone for the sins of the people. The reason for this is that when God saved his people from slavery and essentially gave the rules of his 'religion' to his prophets (Moses, Aaron, etc) he was building something that would be easy for the Jewish people to accept. In those days, there were far more gruesome sacrifices than one little lamb. Try living babies. God chose the image of the sacrifice because that was what people understood. In this day and age, it is completely understandable that this is a hard concept for most to grasp. Let me put this in a more modern light. Jesus came to Earth and lived a perfect life. Now I'm sure you are thinking, How is this Possible? No one could life a perfect life.

You're right. No human person could, but Jesus was not human. Sure his body was human, but his soul was prefect and divine. He withstood the temptaions we fall to every day. He was essentially an innocent person. And when he was crucified, it was as if he had taken the penalty for our sins and put them on himself, as his responsibility. Can't you accept that someone could love you enough to take responsibility for your crimes? That is all 'sacrifice' is, the transfer of crimes or someone else's future to your own. Honestly it pains me to see people angry at Him when he suffered for their own sins and was innocent himself. Its like spitting in His face.

OK, if taht came out like I was trying to press my opinion on you, no. That was not the intent. This is the philosophy taht drives my belief.

To answer another point, if God were to allow all manner of sin to go on, whatstate do you think the world would be in? To show forgiveness is to teach compassion, but to show apathy teaches lawlessness and breeds anarchy and everything immoral and vile in our human character. Without guidance, sometimes negative, children would grow up unaware of how the real world operates and would suffer as a result. The same goes for God's kingdom. He does not want to harm anyone, but how else can he show us who's in charge?

Go ahead and challenge him to a fight, I'd love to see that.

Haven't we grown past the belief that sacrifice is beneficial yet? I mean, we don't offer sacrifices anymore. You'd think there'd be a reason for that, wouldn't you?

OK, so you would rather not have a chance in the world to enjoy the afterlife? How can you believe that personal sacrifice isn't beneficial? PLease explain this.

As for why would God care if we existed.....taht one requires that you believe something that you probably wont. But I'll explain myself anyways for the edification of others.

Of all the marvelous creations on Earth, we are the only ones who are capable of making the conscious decision to love him. That is a powerful gift. Love is something that shouldn't be taken for granted, Satyr.

A last piece of advice. I doubt you are, but it makes you look like a close-minded idiot when you compare anyone who professes to be a christian with the extremists who persecute anyone who isn't a Christian. Have I said anything negative about Atheism or any other religious beliefs? Don't dare to discriminate against me, my words can pick silly attacks to pieces.

OK, so that was a bit strong.

By no means did I have intentions on insulting your post..no way! What I mean by misleading is that look at the majority of faiths, or non faiths posting in this particular thread..The title in itself coming from someone like you especially IS misleading. I thought to myself here you have this guy who is devout and he's making a thread that about disproofs-300 no less-of the existance of God?? I was wondering where you were going with it and now I know, it was to trap folks who don't believe in so that everyone could argue and debate His existance. Do you think you are going to change someone like Satyrs' mind Jagd? I'm sure you could, but here, in a forum?

You have some great words and you obviously are a very wise man..but damn you sure like to argue!

I remember the other thread..and honestly I just didn't pay as much attention to it is all. As I usually stay far away from debates about God, especially when they involve someone very Christian vs. Atheist-it's just bound to be ugly and there is no winner and half the time no listener either..

I never stated this was a bad or stupid post, just misleading, but then most post are especially when the poster has hidden intentions.

Originally posted by darkhowling
Can't you accept that someone could love you enough to take responsibility for your crimes?

Sure. That doesn't even take a bit of a stretch of imagination, really. It also doesn't take the son of god to be that generous. I'd do it myself. The fact remains that, it's impossible to transfer sins. The idea that that can be done is nothing short of insane. It was a last attempt to save a bit of his own diginity, and claim a small victory over his executioners. I'd also do that, if I found myself in that position. Make them feel as wrong as possible, if you know you're going to die anyway, right? There's absolutely nothing supernatural about that.

Go ahead and challenge him to a fight, I'd love to see that.

Oh, I have. Many times. He must be a coward. People ask me how I know there's no god? Challenge him, if you dare. You'll see. Nothing happens.

OK, so you would rather not have a chance in the world to enjoy the afterlife? How can you believe that personal sacrifice isn't beneficial? PLease explain this.

I don't want to live forever. That would be a curse, IMO. Death is natural, and I don't believe in an afterlife...at least not the one you imagine. Personal sacrifice can be beneficial, but not in the case of execution, unless you're being a hero and saving someone's life. That's different though. No one was saved by Jesus' death, really. You all still believe you're sinners, don't you?

As for why would God care if we existed.....taht one requires that you believe something that you probably wont. But I'll explain myself anyways for the edification of others.

I didn't ask why god cares if we exist. I asked why god would care if we think he exists or not.

A last piece of advice. I doubt you are, but it makes you look like a close-minded idiot when you compare anyone who professes to be a christian with the extremists who persecute anyone who isn't a Christian. Have I said anything negative about Atheism or any other religious beliefs? Don't dare to discriminate against me, my words can pick silly attacks to pieces.

Xians are the leaders in persecution, though. They always have been. In fact, 300 years ago, I would've been burned at the stake or hanged by good xians. Not because I don't believe in god (I probably wouldn't tell them that. I'm not stupid.), but because I have a light case of Tourette's Syndrome, which was believed to be demonic possession at the time. Actually, you could practically get hanged or burned just for sneezing funny. That's just one example of the "head cases" religion has created. Although they don't necessarily kill people anymore - Thank god! (figuratively speaking) - they still hold the same crazy beliefs. If it's not good, or at least socially acceptable, it's the devil's work!

Originally posted by magesticaDo you think you are going to change someone like Satyrs' mind Jagd? I'm sure you could, but here, in a forum?

The best have tried. It'll never happen. I've already lived life in the shoes of the believer. Part of my biggest experiment in proving that there is no god (to myself anyway) was defying and challenging god. Nothing changed. No punishment, no wrath of god...nothing.

[Edited on 10-12-2003 by Satyr]

Reply to satyr:

For my dear Christian friends on this Forum I offer the following link

Well when you read that you should have realized that you were not included; you
complaint is invalid. See my previous post. Again the double standard. Also where was
the �hateful� language in my original post? You are just p*ssed because someone made a
post which made atheists look foolish. You think it is great when someone makes a post
which makes theists (especially Christians) look foolish. Get over it. Here you are getting
into a hissy fit for a Christian doing something you do all the time.

As for the death of Christ on the Cross. Here is an quick explanation. You will
understand or not depending on how you view the world.
1. God has a perfect sense of justice. Sin must receive a punishment. The results of sin is
separation from God (or Hell).
2. God has perfect love for his creation. He desires all men to come to know him and be
in his presence (Heaven).
3. God cannot violate His character. Sin deserves the wrath of God. God must vent his
wrath for sin.
4. God sent the Son to this world to live as the perfect man and to die on the cross.
During this process God vented His wrath on Jesus for our sins. Thus Jesus took the
wrath of God for our sins.
As an analogy suppose you are in a court for your life and the judge says, �Pay a fine of
ten million dollars of be executed� (There have been such courts and are still such courts
in this world.) You are broke. It looks like you are going to die. Suddenly there is a
voice from the court room, �Here your honor, is a check for ten million dollars. You
know me and you know my check is good.� You look around and see a man you have
never seen before. He gives the judge the check. The judge takes the check and turns to
you and says, �The ten million dollar fine has been paid, you are free to go.�

To point it simply:
1. God requires a fine to be paid for sin, to suffer his wrath.
2. Jesus paid that fine by suffering the wrath of the Father.
3. We can accept that payment as a gift if we so choose, but we must ask for it; it is called
imputed righteousness.
4. We must be viewed as being sinless to be permitted in God�s presence. The
acceptance of the Gift of Jesus on the Cross imputes righteousness into us so that we can
be viewed as sinless by God.

Heaven is God�s Kingdom, His home. Just as you have house rules for your home. He
has house rules for His Home. Just as you expect people to follow your rules when they
come into your home, God expects people to follow His rules when they enter into His
Home. One of the rules is that you are viewed as being completely sin free before
entering. Well if you accept the death of Jesus Christ on the cross as your payment for the
wrath fine required for you sins, then God views you as being sinless. As I said, you will
understand this or not depending on your world view.

magestica:

Of the name you mentioned, all you need to post is "I believe in God" and that esteemed gentlemen will go on a rampage.

It was a last attempt to save a bit of his own diginity, and claim a small victory over his executioners. I'd also do that, if I found myself in that position. Make them feel as wrong as possible, if you know you're going to die anyway, right?

Well thanks for the insight in your ethics, I'll try to remember that in the future.

Oh, I have. Many times. He must be a coward. People ask me how I know there's no god? Challenge him, if you dare. You'll see. Nothing happens.

OK wiseass, that was a joke. Was my humor above your head or just too dry for your taste?

I don't want to live forever. That would be a curse, IMO. Death is natural, and I don't believe in an afterlife...at least not the one you imagine. Personal sacrifice can be beneficial, but not in the case of execution, unless you're being a hero and saving someone's life. That's different though. No one was saved by Jesus' death, really. You all still believe you're sinners, don't you?

Well that's you opinion and I'll resect that regardless of my disagreement. IMO, anyone willing to accept Him has been saved. But anyway,

I didn't ask why god cares if we exist. I asked why god would care if we think he exists or not.

Sorry, I misread that. then let me propose that since we were once his companions, (walking wiht Adam in the Garden of Eden in Genesis) he misses the close relationship we once shared with him and longs for the return of that. Is it not possible that in giving us the capacity to love, he proved to us his loneliness and desire for a returned love from us?

Xians are the leaders in persecution, though

taht's another debate for another time, I think. While ther's no doubt that there have been extremists in every part of Christianity's history, that can be said for all religions.


Now Satyr, I'll ask a question of you. Is it that you don't believe in God, or that you rebel against the idea of a benevolent God? Don't worry about an instant rebuttal, just think about it from a detached perspective, please.

Don't worry, this isn't any sort of attempt to 'win you over' to Christianity. I'm simply curious about your real beliefs and what you profess. It sounds like you object to many things, but more than that, there are many things you do not understand.

as to why this thread has gone on for 7 pages is beyond me. why continue to argue about the existence of god? you either believe or do not.

and that's the end of that chapter

deafence#, I could just as easily ask you, why not?


Are we making you uncomfortable?

true to that darkhowling, you are right. after all, this sort of talk is what makes us human, no? sorry about that outburst, i guess i personally do not see a point to it. so enough of that. as you all were.

Again, this is christian propaanda put up by a christian. It would be like a Extreme Mauslim putting up a thing on what Americans think and though everything in it was BS like the thing J put up, people believed it for they were Extreme Mauslim to and wanted to believe in it.

Or my favorite one, like a historian putting up math problems saying all true even though all were wrong and the historian being a historian didn't have a clue about math. Sure he made a website saying 2+2=3, but just like with J, it isn't true.

Also, J, use a reliable factual arguement, not my god is real and if you don't believe in my god then I'm not gonna argue with you I'm just going to ignore you and argue on something else.

Also and again, this is christian propaganda that only an ignorant or a christian would believe.

Reply to maynardsthirdeye

Leviticus 26:14 - 26:18
14. "`But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands,
15. and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my
commands and so violate my covenant,
16. then I will do this to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and
fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life. You will plant seed in vain,
because your enemies will eat it.
17. I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those
who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.
18. "`If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times
over.

Deuteronomy 28:15-28
15. However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his
commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and
overtake you:
16. You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17. Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18. The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of
your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19. You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20. The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your
hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have
done in forsaking him.
21. The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land
you are entering to possess.
22. The LORD will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with
scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you
perish.
23. The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron.
24. The LORD will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come
down from the skies until you are destroyed.
25. The LORD will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at
them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of
horror to all the kingdoms on earth.
26. Your carcasses will be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and
there will be no one to frighten them away.
27. The LORD will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores
and the itch, from which you cannot be cured.
28. The LORD will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind.

Notice the word covenant, that is a contract. As one judge said, "Equity law can be
brutal". Equity law is the law of contracts, the law of covenants. The Jews had a
covenant with God. He would provide good things (i. e., "land of milk and honey") but
they (the Jews) had to perform and keep up their end of the bargain. That is what
contracts (or covenants) are for. Under the laws of contract, you have no complaint if you
willingly violate your end of the contract and the other party to the contract decides to
punish you for your failure to comply to the contract. When the Jews entered the
Promised Land, the terms of the contract (the Covenant) was read to them and they all
agreed to these terms. They were warned of the consequences of violating the contract.
They enjoyed the good things provided by the Covenant but did not keep up their end of
the bargain. When God decided to punish them, they had no complaint. Indeed the Jews
forced God into this action when they failed to perform as per the covenant and permitted
such things as Baal worship is Israel. God had to punish the Jews for their violation of the
Covenant because for Him not to do so would indicate that He might not live up to His
Promises. In other words God has promised us that He would give us some good things
(such as entry into Heaven) and that there can be some bad things (sent to Hell). How can
we know if God would keep His word if He failed to punish the Jews for their direct
violation of the Covenant between Him and them. It is the same situation when you go to
work for someone. There is a covenant (or contract) between you and your employer.
You expect good things (a paycheck every Friday); your employer expects you to do your
job. If you willingly fail to do your job (such as sitting on your fanny for the entire week
and doing nothing) and then your employer fires you, you have no complaint; you failed to
live up to your end of the bargain.

Numbers 11:1
1. Now the people complained about their hardships in the hearing of the LORD, and
when he heard them his anger was aroused. Then fire from the LORD burned among them
and consumed some of the outskirts of the camp.

Let that be a lesson to you. If you are ever on the march out of Egypt lead by a guy
named Moses, DO NOT complain. Here is the situation. The Children of Israel are on
the march, discipline had to be maintained. They had already rebelled once when they
made the golden calf. This was not just mere complaining like "Gee it is awful hot out
here", but if you read the ASB translation you read, "speaking evil in the ears of Jehovah".
This was leading up to mutiny and had to be stopped. You would not think twice if you
read where some general hung a few men from his army on the march who were planning
mutiny.

Exekiel 5:11-5:13
11. Therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, because you have defiled
my sanctuary with all your vile images and detestable practices, I myself will withdraw my
favor; I will not look on you with pity or spare you.
12. A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you; a third
will fall by the sword outside your walls; and a third I will scatter to the winds and pursue
with drawn sword.
13. "Then my anger will cease and my wrath against them will subside, and I will be
avenged. And when I have spent my wrath upon them, they will know that I the LORD
have spoken in my zeal.

Go back to the discussion above, "Equity law can be brutal". The Children of Israel did
not live up to their end of the bargain. The reference "vile images and detestable
practices" is the worship of false gods (including Baal worship). Again the Jews had a
Covenant (contract) with God, this Covenant had a penalty clause. The willful actions of
the Jews forced God to evoke the penalty clause of the Covenant; otherwise, we could
never be sure if God would live up to His promises. Today if you willfully violate a
contract with a penalty clause and if the other party evokes the penalty, do you have a
complaint? (Note I speak of willful actions.) Indeed Hindus would probably have no
problem with these passages seeing this just as an example of the Law of Karma.

Hosea 13:16
16. The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their
God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their
pregnant women ripped open."

Well first of all, God is not doing this. This is what a foreign army is going to do (the
Babylonians). Here is the old double standard. The Children of Israel wanted the good
things God had to offer and took them, but rebelled against his Rule and violated the
terms of the Covenant. Now you expect God to "bail them out" when a foreign army
shows up to do grievous damage to people and to conquer them. Again the Hindu would
most likely say, "Law of Karma". You cannot dismiss God and His rightful rule and then
expect Him to intervene when the bad guys show up.

From Jamesthelesser
Also and again, this is christian propaganda that only an ignorant or a christian would believe.

Again I fail to see the logic in your previous post or the relevance of any of your statements. By the way, it is spelled "Muslim" not "Mauslim". You make them sound like something in which you bury someone. Also I much rather be an ignorant Christian than an ignorant atheist as you have proven yourself to be.

Hey Jag, you know that could be a typo. try to keep from attacking others senselessly, or you'll never be able to add validity to your aguements.