Over Three Hundred Disproofs of God�s Existence

When I see something worthy of study.

Example of a response from a derivative of acceleration.

You do know this bs came from a christian site? You do know this isn't what atheist say, right? You do know the only ones who believe this are christians right?

Anyways, atheist don't say/use this, christians say they use/do this. Why? Propaganda. Just like they took Satan, an angel with no feathers on it's wings and made it into the same image as Hurn/Pan, two gods from a different religon. Just like older religons had powerful female figures and christians made women evil. Except for Mary, she was just a jew who god screwed. Remember that part? Mary was married to Joseph, both jews, then Mary cheats on Joseph with god and gets knocked up by god. Also, Mary was a virgin, but virgin meant young female back then. Just like gay meant happy but today means homosexual. Also, she was married. Last time I checked if married the couple could screw their brains out. And if she wasn't putting out for her husband, then why the hell did he stay with her?

James the Lesser
If you have read my posting, you would have realized that this did come from a Christian
web site and is used to illustrate typical atheist logic. By the way you posting comes
under this category:

ARGUMENT FROM WILLFUL IGNORANCE
1. It simply doesn't make sense that an unseen, all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good sky-daddy created the world out of nothingness, from magic, essentially, and then punished us for eating a piece of fruit, and then incarnated himself in human flesh and came down to shed his own blood so he could break his own rules, and then went through hell on a temporary basis and then went back into the sky and promised to come back and take everyone who believed in him to this heaven no one has ever seen?
2. Don't bother trying to explain it to me or tell me how I've falsely portrayed God. I like being an atheist.
3. Therefore, God doesn't exist.

Again we see scholarship not up to the level of Raymond Babbitt. A whole lot of
pointless ranting assertions with nothing to back it up and not really germane to the
subject anyway. When it gets dark, I will go outside and check to see if there is a full
moon tonight. Perhaps that will explain you post. Again I see outrage by an atheist
because a Christian made a post which makes atheists look bad. The atheists think it is
great fun to make a post which makes Christians and theists look bad, but really get upset
and spiteful when a theists makes a post which makes them look bad. I guess the rules are
that atheists can post anything which makes theists look bad, but theists are not allowed to
make posts which shows the logical flaws in atheist arguments. Yes, James, the logic of
every argument you have ever made here falls somewhere on the linked list.

Originally posted by jagdflieger

1. Argument by outrage. Oh all those poor people killed by that mean old God. First
their argument shows that they did not truly understand what was going on. Secondly if
this argument does hold weight, do you think I want to mess with Him and make Him mad
at me. No way.

Would I want to mess with him? What kind of God makes you love him by using fear? I think that is the main argument of outrage. That a God with infinite mercy, understanding, and kindness would have to kill for any reason.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Man created his gods because man was once weak and fearful of the thought of the entire world existing on its own, of no higher plan directing it all, when he discovered he had no control over anything, he created gods to make him feel better so he had someone to placate and bend the knee to in the hopes of controling something.

I could not have put it better myself....

agreed 100%

Quote from The Blade Runner
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Man created his gods because man was once weak and fearful of the thought of the entire world existing on its own, of no higher plan directing it all, when he discovered he had no control over anything, he created gods to make him feel better so he had someone to placate and bend the knee to in the hopes of controling something.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could not have put it better myself....
agreed 100%

There is your thesis (theory) now back it up with evidence; otherwise, it remains nothing more than an assertion.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer

Originally posted by Satyr
When I see something worthy of study.

Then how can you *possibly* expect someone to even read your comments in any topic that you don't find "worthy of study"? In order to have a commoon point of reference for an intelligent discussion, you *must* have some scholarly familiarity with the subject of discussion.

You sir, have shown nothing but utter contempt for anyone & any subject in which you place your inflamatory comments & you just now admit openly that you don't even study the very topics you flame.

This makes you nothing less than an internet troll (perhaps merely seeking to build ATS points) with no basis of study to back up your opinions. In other words, your self-proclaimed title is only half-accurate...There's no "intellectual" to go with your "axe".

You can study propaganda or fairy tales until you're blue in the face. In the end, it's still fallacy. I've studied it plenty, and eventually figured out that there is nothing to study. It's an intricate web of obfuscation. This being the case, people are free to make of it whatever they want. And isn't this what they've done?

BTW, I could say the same of you. What real evidence have you contributed? Nothing but speculation! It all goes back to blind tradition and that book they call the bible. Beyond that, there is nothing to study. No matter how long you study those words, whether it's true or not still can't be proven. There is no basis for research, without factual evidence. It all goes back to your faith, and this is what I comment on, since there is nothing else. Religion is still the only study which hasn't advanced in over 2000 years. Is this mere coincidence? I find that hard to fathom.

And you're calling me a troll??? This thread is a troll! Just as that webpage, it was designed only to piss off atheists, was it not?

Love thy god, or be cast into eternal damnation! Fear thy god's wrath! Believe in god, for he is a good god, and if you don't he'll burn you for all eternity!

Give me a f*cking break! Grow a brain.

[Edited on 10-11-2003 by Satyr]

Quote from satyr
And you're calling me a troll??? This thread is a troll! Just as that webpage, it was designed only to piss off atheists, was it not?

You were not compelled to read this page, you were not compelled to reply. The very first post should have told you what the thread was about. You of your own free will made posts into this thread. Therefore you have no legitimate complaint. Your posts have shown that you have not really done much study in either the Christian faith of in the beliefs of other major religions. All we have seen from you are complaints. Why don't you just go to the moderators and complain and have this thread removed if it upsets you so much. No one stood behind you with a gun to your back to force you to read this thread. It is time for the atheists to grow up and start behaving like they have some brains and some class.

Again, this is from a christian website. You must either be ignorant or christian to belive that is what athiests believe.

Anyways, new joke.
Why did the chrisian cross the road? Because god told him to do it for he would send him to hell if he didn't.

Wow! James, it must have taken you two days to come up with that one. What great humor and wit will we hear from you next???? What reasoned intellectual argument will we hear from you the next time you post. Where is your evidential support of your thesis?

LOL that thig was funny as hell its written by a bunch of quasi intellectuals who think they know everything. I mean this just proved the stupidy of man to me. lol. this is one of the funniest one.

ARGUMENT FROM SCIENCE
Science is always true.
Therefore there is no room for religious faith.
Therefore, God doesn�t exist.

Why the hell do you care about what other people worship? Why do people who don't believe in a higher being have trouble with people who do? Why in a world where people are able to say and think what they want is non-beleiving the only thing we can't tolerate? People have different political beliefs. People have different ways of making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. People like Pepsi over Coke. People have their toilet paper rolls with the paper going over the roll instead of under it. Menthol over non-menthol. I don't worship anything and I have friends who are Jewish, Christian AND Muslim. Do I find their beliefs disturbing, far from it. So why do some peoples feel the need to force their views on others ?

Generally, the most vocal non-beleivers are the ones who used to be one of you. Most born and raised atheists I've met are barely aware that religious peoples are actually serious about this stuff.

Any way if there is a god, we're all screwed.

Salem:
Is this another full moon rant? Yes I was just outside and checked; it is a full moon. I may point out that your post has nothing to do with the original subject which was typical atheist arguments summarized to their logic flow. Again we find a double standard. Non-believers may post whatever they like to make the theists (particularly Christians) look foolish (remember the "300 Proofs for God" thread?). The atheists think it is great fun to do so. However if a believer posts something that makes the atheists look foolish, there is a cry of outrage and "unfair" from the non-believers. Also I find some flaws in your thinking:

Do I find their beliefs disturbing, far from it. So why do some peoples feel the need to force their views on others ?

Just where in this thread is there any implied force my views on you. You were not required to read this thread. Also why is it all right for Jediates, atheists, Wiccans, Buddhists, Shamans, etc. to post their views here but not Christians? By the way where are the followers of Krishna on this board? I could take the posting of Muslim beliefs here as a Muslim trying to force his (or her) views on me if I were to use your logic.

Generally, the most vocal non-beleivers are the ones who used to be one of you. Most born and raised atheists I've met are barely aware that religious peoples are actually serious about this stuff.

I think you got this backward. I am a Christian (formerly atheist) and perhaps I am "vocal" because I know something that the atheists don't. Also I have known many people born and raised as Christians and are very serious about their faith. Indeed I simply do not see how posting an article in a thread represents forcing my view on anyone especially when every other possible view point has been posted at this forum and no one has complained them forcing their view points on others.

in my experience,the only people who talk about God more than "born again Christians"....are "atheists"....

which could lead one to the conclusion that the two are much more alike than either would care to admit....

[Edited on 12-10-2003 by Creepy]

Quote from Creepy
in my experience,the only people who talk about God more than "born again Christians"....are "atheists"....

Well Creepy, you have revealed a bit of truth here. Once upon a time when I was an aheist, a fellow atheist actually conned me into going to a Bible study conducted by and for atheists. Would you believe an atheist Bible study class which met every Saturday night!!!! (At that time as an aheist, I considered Christianity as being primarily a harmless foible.) Nevertheless I managed to leave this meeting as soon as possible because I did not want to spend my Saturday nights doing a Bible study. But it really suprised me that these atheists would spend their Saturday nights studying the Bible (only Christians do that I thought). Well it has been discussed on this board elsewhere that the atheists (on anti-theists as one member coined the phrase) have formed their own little religion. Indeed they have:
1. A set of dogma (which is pretty standard among atheists),
2. Their own set of prophets and gods (dead atheists are there gods) and certain authors whose books are accepted by the atheists without question are the prophets.
I even suspect that certain members of this forum who post here worship Archarya S in secret.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
Salem:
Is this another full moon rant? Yes I was just outside and checked; it is a full moon. I may point out that your post has nothing to do with the original subject which was typical atheist arguments summarized to their logic flow. Again we find a double standard. Non-believers may post whatever they like to make the theists (particularly Christians) look foolish (remember the "300 Proofs for God" thread?). The atheists think it is great fun to do so. However if a believer posts something that makes the atheists look foolish, there is a cry of outrage and "unfair" from the non-believers. Also I find some flaws in your thinking:

Do I find their beliefs disturbing, far from it. So why do some peoples feel the need to force their views on others ?

Just where in this thread is there any implied force my views on you. You were not required to read this thread. Also why is it all right for Jediates, atheists, Wiccans, Buddhists, Shamans, etc. to post their views here but not Christians? By the way where are the followers of Krishna on this board? I could take the posting of Muslim beliefs here as a Muslim trying to force his (or her) views on me if I were to use your logic.

I think you got this backward. I am a Christian (formerly atheist) and perhaps I am "vocal" because I know something that the atheists don't. Also I have known many people born and raised as Christians and are very serious about their faith. Indeed I simply do not see how posting an article in a thread represents forcing my view on anyone especially when every other possible view point has been posted at this forum and no one has complained them forcing their view points on others.

First
You want me to point you a flaw ? Well you maked a post about "typical atheists point of view" without providing any true example of it but by posting christians point of view of what they beleive atheism is. Kinda funny from some one who is always asking for proofs even when things are clearer as crystal. You haven't provided any true atheist arguments (from atheist ) and you avoided to argued with atheists about their view yet even if it's your topic, but you keeped fighting with satyr about some out topic stuff... It seems that we don't have the same definition for the word "logic".

Just where in this thread is there any implied force my views on you. You were not required to read this thread. Also why is it all right for Jediates, atheists, Wiccans, Buddhists, Shamans, etc. to post their views here but not Christians? By the way where are the followers of Krishna on this board? I could take the posting of Muslim beliefs here as a Muslim trying to force his (or her) views on me if I were to use your logic.

Second,
Please read carefully, my post was not dedicated to christians nor you but to whoever is forcing their views on some one else, so it does apply to every beleifs. And by the way I'm not atheist, I beleive in god but not in that BS wich religions are.

I think you got this backward. I am a Christian (formerly atheist) and perhaps I am "vocal" because I know something that the atheists don't.

Ho ok, you know how to make atheists tell things they haven't ?

[Edited on 12-10-2003 by Salem]

My original post:
For my dear Christian friends on this Forum I offer the following link which summarizes the typical atheist argument about the existence of God. Somewhere in this web page you will find an example of the thought process utilized in typical atheist logic and argument:
Followed by the link.

First you will see that this post was directed to Christians on the forum. Secondly this is a response to a "300 Proofs of God" web page on an atheists web site and linked to here in a thread.

You haven't provided any true atheist arguments (from atheist ) and you avoided to argued with atheists about their view yet even if it's your topic

Well where are the atheist's arguments except on the order of
1. There is no God,
2. You are a indiot to believe in God.
That is not an reasoned argument.

Indeed, we have seen the statement:

Man created his gods because man was once weak and fearful of the thought of the entire world existing on its own, of no higher plan directing it all, when he discovered he had no control over anything, he created gods to make him feel better so he had someone to placate and bend the knee to in the hopes of controling something.

To which I responded state your evidence. Indeed I will respond to the statement above in the style it was written. It is totally incorrect and wrong. God created the universe and man. God revealed himself to Abraham, Moses, and the prophets. The Bible is the revealed word of God. Jesus Christ is the Son of God as predicted in the Old Testament. God exists independent of man. Okay I have responded to the atheists.

Well Salem you asked for typical atheist arguments. Well here are some with my
responses (there is one who is probably not an atheist, and question the validity of Biblical
translation). I also responded to that and could give more detail if asked. Incidentally, it
was about the only valid criticism made in this entire thread and if that poster wishes more
information on the subject of textual reliability, I can post it.

1. God says he loves man, yet he routinely has wiped out hordes of innocents by his own
directives (i.e. the ten plagues of Egypt, the Great Flood, and his announced upcoming
Armageddon). Now, you could argue that they were sinners, but seriously, how much
could little Egyptian infants sin?
2. One of the Seven Deadly sins is Vanity, yet God is guilty of this in his own Ten
Commandments (no worship of false idols...he is so vain that man not worship another,
that it made the top ten list!)
3. God is supposed to be loving of all mankind, yet routinely cheers on the destruction of
the unfaithful, even so far as suggesting their being gutted, their women raped, etc.
(mostly in the Old Testament)
4. The word of God has been routinely proven wrong, by science, as far as our evolution,
the Earth not being the center of the Universe, etc.
5. What deity would allow it's most faithful representatives, to be universally viewed as
pediphiles and child molestors? Surely, if anyone deserved some fire and brimstone, it's
these bad reps....???

1. Argument by outrage. Not a valid argument to prove or disprove the existence of
God.
2. So you don�t want to worship a God who created you. What ingratitude. Still is not a
valid argument to disprove the existence of God (a variation of argument by outrage).
3. Would you be so kind as to quote where this is mentioned in the Bible and in what
context?
4. Again would you be so kind as to quote where in the Bible it unequivocally states that
the earth is the center of the universe?
5. Would you quote you statistics and who are these �most faithful representatives�?

If god created everything, then who created god?
If god could create everything, why couldnt he make for himself a suitable self esteem so
he isnt so dependant upon the drivelling debasing worship of puny mortals he creates?
If god is perfect, then why is his creation flawed?
If god loves everyone, then why does he use mortals to go tell people to worship him?
couldnt he simply appear to everyone at birth and let them know he exists?
Twas a good point made, god is guilty of vanity and pride, and according to the bible,
murder

1. God is uncreated, the original cause. I will ask the question, �Where did the mass and
energy which made the �big bang� go bang come from�. To which the atheist will
respond it was just there. Well to the atheist I will respond, �Well God was just there�.
2. It is just your opinion that God needs us. No it is us who need God. Again not a valid
argument. It is just an opinion of the character of God.
3. Why do you think His Creation is flawed. Are you using yourself as an example of an
flawed portion of the Creation? If you wish we could debate the subject of free will
versus prior knowledge. After all that is the basic idea behind your statement.
4. Well God did reveal Himself to you at birth. You were born and lived. And indeed
God does reveal Himself to those who wish to respond.
5. The last point is more �argument by outrage�.

Does the Church leave Scriptures be in their own context, content & syntax? No, there are
numerous *documented* cases throughout the history of the Church where unreliable &
untruthful *changes* were made to the Scriptures.

Could you list some of these examples. I could link to web pages which describe the way
translations of the Bible are made. However it is known that the current New Testament
is on the order of being 98% faithful to the original text. No major doctrinal issue is at
stake in the remaining 2%. The New Testament is closer to the events that it records than
any other scripture (with the possible exception of the Koran). We have the following
dates for the various books of the New Testament:
1 Thessalonians Spring 50
2 Thessalonians ca. 50-51
1 Corinthians Spring 55
1 Timothy Autumn 55
2 Corinthians Spring 56
Galatians Autumn 56
Romans Spring 57
Titus Autumn 57
Philippians Summer 58
Colossians Summer 58
Ephesians late Summer 58
2 Timothy Autumn 58

Mark between 45-60
Matthew between 40-60+
Luke apparently in the years 57-60+
John possibly 40-65+

When a new translation is made, the translators start with the original texts and start all
over. In short a new translation of the Bible is not just a rewrite of an older translation.
The translators go back to the original text as possible. If you read the various
translations, you will find that they all say much the same thing and again no major
doctrinal stance is dependent on a particular translation (except for those King James only
types). For example:
Ephesians 2
NIV
8. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is
the gift of God--
9. not by works, so that no one can boast.

ASB
8. for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift
of God;
9. not of works, that no man should glory.

KJV
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of
God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Anyway, atheist don't say/use this, Christians say they use/do this. Why? Propaganda. Just
like they took Satan, an angel with no feathers on it's wings and made it into the same
image as Hurn/Pan, two gods from a different religon. Just like older religons had
powerful female figures and christians made women evil. Except for Mary, she was just a
jew who god screwed. Remember that part? Mary was married to Joseph, both jews, then
Mary cheats on Joseph with god and gets knocked up by god. Also, Mary was a virgin,
but virgin meant young female back then. Just like gay meant happy but today means
homosexual. Also, she was married. Last time I checked if married the couple could screw
their brains out. And if she wasn't putting out for her husband, then why the hell did he
stay with her?

This poster shows lack of knowledge of basic Christian doctrines. First where is the
supporting evidence that women are evil as a Christian doctrine. That statement is wrong.
This whole post is somewhat offensive in the way it is written but we will overlook that.
Well in the first century Jewish culture, young unmarried women were virgins in the sense
that we mean virgin. Perhaps this poster was confused by the behavior of close female
relatives such as sisters and mother which does not apply to first century Jewish culture.
Furthermore, Mary was pregnant when she married Joseph and whether or not Mary
remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus is not a core issue with most Prostentant
denominations. Also this issue has nothing to do as to who Jesus Christ is.

Well two things..this thread has just gotten out of hand. I think the original post was just misleading as far as who or what responses you might get..and that is just obvious by the *responses* you did get.

And two..For every disproof there is always a way to come up with proof or even more disproofs from just one..but really, who cares?? If someone doesn't believe in God, it's going to take more then 300 proofs to get them to even consider believing. And if someone does believe in God then 300 disproofs are just laughable and not even worth the time to even consider proving each and every one.

It boils down to one thing, you either do or you don't believe and it's going to take something other then someone else 'proofs' to change your mind

Originally posted by jagdflieger

There is your thesis (theory) now back it up with evidence; otherwise, it remains nothing more than an assertion.

back up the exsistance of god/a god with proof... you cant ... and i cant disproove the exsistance of god so we are at a complete stalemate...

i belive a god can exsist .. but i belive one doesnt.. i belive in nature and life... i dont have faith in something that cannot be prooven exsists...

now im not saying your wrong... im not saying i am right.. but one of us is wrong ... and can you live with being wrong?

my view is that all relligious people are very arrogant.. and cannot acept the fact that we are not special and we have no meaning... we are the scum of the universe... we # each other over for a percentage...

you know what i find funny...

ask any true non relligious person do they belive in the possibility of god... i bet they all say yes..

now ask any relligious person do they belive that god might not exsist... they will say dont be stupid of course he exsists... they cannot see out of the little brainwashing world they are stuck in...

now does that not explain everything because it certainly does to me... i think you all need to watch monty pythons the life of brian maybe it will wake you up to the shear hypocracy of organised religion...

you can belive in god and not have to be a jew christian or muslim ect ect ... drop the organised religion its whats holding the human race back...