Over Three Hundred Disproofs of God�s Existence

Really? How about this argument....
"The Ontological Argument"
Link:
www.existence-of-god.com...

Btw....reason and religion can exist and have co-existed....though I do see and understand what you sayed Midnight....


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 9-10-2003 by Seekerof]

You know, i like to believe myself in the middle of what can be seen as the 2 opposing 'sides' of this discussion, call them the believers and the non-believers. My personal belief on a higher power/afterlife is that there is one. That's it. There's some sort of higher power(s) and afterlife, i just dont believe there's any way to prove it. It may surprise you that i DO believe that there was a guy named Jesus Christ that had some awsome ideas (unfortunatly some of those have been distorted), just as i believe in Buddha, Mohhomad (i know i butchered the spelling, apologies to our Muslim members), and in many other people.

There are no shortage of good ideas out there, and to me, the fact that there is also no shortage of people that believe in the various different but good ideas proves one thing. There is no one right way. I think that there are some ideas/morals that should be followed, not because they are nessecarilly right, but because quite simply, the world would be a much better place to exist in if they were followed. That goes for the board as well. Why is it nessecary for everybody to be right? Why does everybody feel the need to push their ideas on everybody else? I know that sounds like what some of what i have previously reffered to as the "non-believers" have said but they are just as guilty of it as everybody else. People are not clones, there are all different kinds of people, and because of that, there is not and never will be one idea that is right for all, what may be right for me, might not be right for you.

Just a thought.

Originally posted by KKing123
There are no shortage of good ideas out there, and to me, the fact that there is also no shortage of people that believe in the various different but good ideas proves one thing. There is no one right way. I think that there are some ideas/morals that should be followed, not because they are nessecarilly right, but because quite simply, the world would be a much better place to exist in if they were followed.

And with that, you have summed everything up and I hope that with this single statement, some of the aggressives here can understand that, while we are not all of the same faith, none of us are wrong.

Trust me, I know religion and dedication make other religions harder to understand. I have tried many. I have only chosen my one true path in about the last 7 months. I have been told in every religion I have practiced, we are right, they are wrong. I have been kicked out of two Baptist churches because I have certain beliefs. They said what I believed was not consistent with the word of God, so I was wrong. I know why theose who people refer to as "religious nuts" think the way they think. This is what they are taught. It's hard to break out of that. I was lucky that those churches booted me at 12 years old, or I would probably still be there.

No one is wrong, or inferior. We all just think differently. It's called freewill, and I practice it daily.

IM,
Your quote-"To me, this is belittling, and honestly, hurtful. It comes through to me as someone telling me that what I think is wrong. That because I do not worship their god, I am inferior to them. This is coming from family mind you. When it is from non family, it is worse."

I don't think your inferior but I do wish that everyone followed God and Jesus, and I'll continue to pray for those who don't believe in Him. I am charged with this by Jesus himself. Now what kind of disciple would I be if I didn't do anything to further Christ's cause?

Originally posted by Cearbhall
Now what kind of disciple would I be if I didn't do anything to further Christ's cause?

A considerate one.

Honestly, I'm beginning to think the best policy is for ALL religious philosophies to start prosteletyzing here.

I will pray to the Goddess for your enlightenment.

Sorry, Christ commanded all Christians to "make disciples of all nations."

No how Christians go about doing that is where problems and misunderstandings occur.

Originally posted by Byrd
I will pray to the Goddess for your enlightenment.

Thanks byrd, I too was going to say I will invoke the god and the goddess to help in my prayers for enlightenment of christians.

This is another reason I strayed from Christianity. Most Christians (please do not take this as a generalization as I am reflecting on my past christian experiences) take the teachings of the religion so far saying "the scripture says to pray for those who don't believe". To me, this is over stepping. I wish not to be prayed for, as I pray to the god and goddess of my own faith. I do not pray for others, only myself.

One of the "rules" of wicca, is not to "push or recruit" to the religion. One who is wiccan comes on their own terms. (the same goes really for all pagan/nature based religions)

[Edited on 10-10-2003 by ImAlreadyPsycho]

Don't expect me to save you from satan when he comes for you fools.

Originally posted by THENEO
Don't expect me to save you from satan when he comes for you fools.

First of, I am no fool. Secondly, Satan will not come for me. Satan is a creature created by the Christian faith to scare their children into going to bed on time and doing their homework.

And for all that matters, let he without sin cast the first stone. Isn't that how it goes????

Originally posted by Cearbhall
Sorry, Christ commanded all Christians to "make disciples of all nations."

No how Christians go about doing that is where problems and misunderstandings occur.

Sorry, but I consider your type of xian an annoying virus of psychologically obsessed, maniacally arrogant proportions. You couldn't be more annoying, quite frankly. You're the ones that give xians a bad name. But then, that's what they exist to do, so it seems. Infect.

Originally posted by THENEO
Don't expect me to save you from satan when he comes for you fools.

Don't expect me to save you from your god when he casts you into hell. You reject!




[Edited on 10-10-2003 by Satyr]

Nice to see Byrd and Jezzebel were msart enough to see the site was written by christians in an attempt to try and ridicule the athiests. This is actually a good example of the limited mentality and understanding that is a staple in Christ insanity.

If god created everything, then who created god?
If god could create everything, why couldnt he make for himself a suitable self esteem so he isnt so dependant upon the drivelling debasing worship of puny mortals he creates?
If god is perfect, then why is his creation flawed?
If god loves everyone, then why does he use mortals to go tell people to worship him? couldnt he simply appear to everyone at birth and let them know he exists?
Twas a good point made, god is guilty of vanity and pride, and according to the bible, murder.

And of course christians for some reason seem to think the god of an athiest is man. Another skewer of thier logic, for the world athiest means: without god. Godless. Thus, an athiest cannot have a god period. If thier god is man, then they are humanists, not athiests. Athiests simply do not believe in any spook, no matter what brand he wears.

I fiond it illogical to believe in god as a sentient entity, an actual directed conciousness.

If something can come from nothing, than where did god come from? Is god not something?

Or is he nothing?

Man created his gods because man was once weak and fearful of the thought of the entire world existing on its own, of no higher plan directing it all, when he discovered he had no control over anything, he created gods to make him feel better so he had someone to placate and bend the knee to in the hopes of controling something.

Satyr, this my opinion of you:

If brains were made out of the right kind of wire, you would not have enough to short circuit the dynamo in a firefly's arse.

Skadi

Do I detect some outrage from you. You think it is great when the atheists post something which makes the believers look foolish. You really seem to get upset when the tables are turned on you. By the way, every type of argument I have ever seen you post is somewhere on that list.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
Satyr, this my opinion of you:

Great. Your opinion of me means nothing to me. Thank you.

Um Jag...

The whole point of my post was the fact that the very link you posted FAILED TO DO JUST THAT. I suppsoe reading comprehension is a sin in the bible too?

The point was it was a very sad and rather amusing attempt of some Christ Insane bible thumper to attempt to understand logic period. Ive seen better humor attempts.

The point is, it makes YOU look foolish, because you posted this as coming from an actual athiest site, and these points being made by athiests, when in fact, it was some bible thumper loon who has no grasp on the concept of logic or the concept of athiesm. Yet another seriously failed attempt at the believers to delve into the realm of critical thinking, when they are best left in thier fairy tale and spook ridden fantasies.

Ive actually seen better attempts from non christians at debunkiing the ideals of Athiesm.

Well Skadi
I have seen atheists do the same thing and if you have read (which sometimes I believe you do not do) my original post, you would have realized that this was directed to Christians to illustrate the typical logic behind atheist arguments. Somewhere on the list all your arguements can be found.

I'd already mentioned that it sounded like it was written by an angry teenager. That's about the mentality of it. Nice of you to share that bit of poorly written "wisdom" with the non-analytic dimwit xians. Keep up the good work. That'll learn 'em to be good xians!

Actually, isn't it a sin to judge others? It surely isn't xian like to type up something like that, I'm sure.

[Edited on 10-10-2003 by Satyr]

By the way Satyr, when will we see reasoned arguments from you. All I have ever seen posted by you are insults and postings such as "that is a stupid posting". Never have we ever seen any scholarly work from you "Intellectual hack man". When will we see a truly scholarly work from you?

Originally posted by Cearbhall
Sorry, Christ commanded all Christians to "make disciples of all nations."

Did Christ write that command with His own hand? No, it was written by someone who "observered" events as they happened.

Does the Church leave Scriptures be in their own context, content & syntax? No, there are numerous *documented* cases throughout the history of the Church where unreliable & untruthful *changes* were made to the Scriptures.

Is there any *one* version of the Bible that can be called an *completely accurate & infallable* source of the Scriptures & their meaning? No, such a version does not exist because the Dead Sea Scrolls themselves (the *original source* of all Christian Scriptures) are not entirely readable (due to aging-damage) & it may neveer be known whether the entire collection of Scrolls is complete or not.

So how can anyone be *absolutely certain* of what commands Christ gave that long ago?
I notice that the Ten Commandments (suppossedly written in God's own Hand before Christ was born) don't give any such command...

Maybe Christ said that or maybe he didn't...My point is that we in this day & age cannot be *certain* of what *really* happened through the veil of history.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
When will we see a truly scholarly work from you?

When I see something worthy of study.

Originally posted by Satyr
When I see something worthy of study.

Then how can you *possibly* expect someone to even read your comments in any topic that you don't find "worthy of study"? In order to have a commoon point of reference for an intelligent discussion, you *must* have some scholarly familiarity with the subject of discussion.

You sir, have shown nothing but utter contempt for anyone & any subject in which you place your inflamatory comments & you just now admit openly that you don't even study the very topics you flame.

This makes you nothing less than an internet troll (perhaps merely seeking to build ATS points) with no basis of study to back up your opinions. In other words, your self-proclaimed title is only half-accurate...There's no "intellectual" to go with your "axe".