how will he come?

Originally posted by Xeros
But seriously how would anyone believe him if he did 'arrive'?

That is so true--everyone thinks they would know Him right away and that there would be no mistake--yet of course the majority shifts just prior in many of the end-time theories, by saying that before He comes an 'antichrist' imposter comes on the scene and fools all but a few people! Except the people of God, of course, who won't fall for that, but will know their God. Yet we have two prophecies in the bible, one by Isaiah, and one attributed to John as the actual Revelation of Christ given by God--the first says every knee will bow and that God will save all--to the ends of all 4 corners of the earth--and the second one says all must die who haven't bowed to the 'beast' and that's doom for them--destined to hell....yada yada yada.

So then there arises the challenge that the bible is inconsistent. And with good reason, it surely seems that it does. But perhaps the inconsistencies are only surface--prophesy is enigmatic at best and totally mystifying at the nadir.

When Yehoshua came along, over and over He said, 'so that the words of the prophet might be fulfilled....' explaining events then taking place before the people's eyes. And even the Jews, who studied the Torah and the Prophets day in and day out, didn't see much of it as legitimate. And today, so many so-called prophesy experts are able to see that there were many prophesies fulfilled, but yet often there are mistakes made when the kingly messiah prophesies are credited as also being fulfilled already--but that's only if we stretch things quite a bit.

And we're all at a slightly different brick in the same road--the scenery varies for each set of eyes, but I've no doubt that the whole of the human race started and will rest together in the same place. And we'll know then.

The biggest criticism of prophesy is that it is easy to say this or that was from God, because in hindsight we can see that it did. But that's the whole purpose of prophesy! To prove things were planned all along. Many of the OT words are obviously and unmistakably 100% fulfilled. And when considering that, it becomes apparent that there is a strange literalness to the fulfillment--no matter how odd it might have seemed before it took place, it ended up coming to pass just as the prophets said it would--as told by God.

Although alot of Jesus 'impersonators' are disregarded as nutcases such as David Koresh (waco) and David Icke, who's to say if the 'real Jesus were to announce himself he would'nt be treated the same way? The real Jesus was crucified remember.

Exactly! That's the reason the Jews don't see Christ as the Christ. Because He died. not because He didn't take over the Romans, although that is part of it, but because he died. And they don't subscribe to the same idea of resurrection as christians do. But the final messianic episode won't end tragically or with such uncertainty. Its not supposed to end at all!

They do have two personas for the Christ--and while the suffering Messiah fits Christ--the forcing of what's happened so far into the mold of the Davidic messiah ruins the credibility for them. Besides the immutable fact that God doesn't intend for them to know until they know. But they won't be punished, as so many want to think. They were following the law that they knew to the best of their ability and that's okay.

And they will know when He comes again, because He will fill every single prophesy in a totally satisfactory and unquestionable degree--and will be able to fill in many holes in their own knowledge from the last 2000 years--they will be able to prove Him
by what He says and what He knows. They are not depending on someone that looks just like the one crucified 2000 years ago. And really, how can anyone depend on such a thing?

We have no pictures whatsoever of this man!

oh boy.

i'm so confused.

It's interesting to me, i posted this forum an ATS :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

it's about one of "god's creatures" and the thing is so amazing, that people are writing in the forum, accusing it of being fake. We are now so acustomed to the possibility of being lied to, that if anything truely astonishing is shown, we asume its a hoax. I for one can see a parallell to jesus coming back. CGI Jesus.

thunder--
I just posted on your thread with the video of the sea 'creature.'

Awesome find! And, the things said on that thread, even more awesome--I got a definite message from your thread. Thanks for thinking to post such.

As far as CGI-what are you referring to?

I'm thinking 'AI' but the only cgi I know goes with server side technologies, etc. I'm probably being so dense that the forest is obscuring my view of the trees.

Everything you said in the post above, don't you know how ironic that is? Truth is both strange and ironic, and like a snake, it will bite you if you don't know what you're doing.

My friend has a saying--maybe not his originally, but that's where I heard it:

'You knew it was a snake when you picked it up.'

I say: 'Did it bite you or give you life?'

Because anti-venin comes from actual venom, usually injected into sheep sometimes cows, I think, but except for those sheep sacrifices, so to speak, we'd all be doomed when bit by a snake!

Sheeple is a derogatory term--but many people revere that sacrificial lamb led to the slaughter and then feast on his roasted meat....

Yet, if that sheep returned as a lamb that had been slain and then eaten-what would the world do? Worship it as an 'idol' or kill it? Or just throw rocks at it, calling it the 'antichrist' and wait for God, who would never come because they had killed him in their ignorance and pride.....

how will he come?

He's already here. His name is God.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
He's already here. His name is God.

G ood
O rderly
D irection



I don't see Him here, yet. Externally, that is.

It is manifestation of God that is coming--not God Himself.

Because, God is within. But the fruition will be 'making the inside like the outside, and the outside like the inside.'

Pretty much the same principle as 'As above, so below.'

Originally posted by queenannie38

As far as CGI-what are you referring to?

I'm thinking 'AI' but the only cgi I know goes with server side technologies, etc. I'm probably being so dense that the forest is obscuring my view of the trees.

CGI means computer generated image or imaging in the visual media world.

Thanks Ben!

I ought to know that, considering what I do. But duh...

Originally posted by tasteslikethunder
in the real world, lets say tomorrow...how would jesus "come back."
? what is the theory on this?

i think scripture has it that;

...He will come as a thief in the night.

and that even the 'elect' (i think that means true/hard core faithful) could be deceived.

PS; here's an article you may find thought provoking
www.opednews.com...

from myself:
The above article gives one pause,
that the fundamentalists in control of the world stage right now,
aren't really the opposite ends of the spectrum
...as the media-church-gov't would desire us to believe...

and that idea my friend, may well be one revelation which helps seperate the wheat from the chaff...
or else exposes those who wear the mark of the beast from those who don't...
or that idea (that Good westernFundamentalists versus the BadRadical-easternFundamentalists)
could actually be the great deception which could
...."decieve the elect, if that were possible" ~scripture~

fry-day again

Originally posted by St Udio
and that even the 'elect' (i think that means true/hard core faithful) could be deceived.

Well, not exactly. It means 'chosen, appointed, accepted.' By God, that is. A lot of people think that by virtue of their beliefs, or even what they do or think, they qualify as 'elect.' But God is the one who elects His choice. And there's no way to get around that.

Also, the bible says the elect would be deceived, if it were possible--implying that it would be impossible to fool them--but that all others will be fooled.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(Matthew 24:24)

For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
(Mark 13:22)

well comeon everyone its obvious he will be riding the back of a huge space ship... come on light show the works you want miracles he pops up solves everyones problems walla uv got the christ reborn want to argue he will pull out his enormous ray gun and fry ur arse

As a reincarnated Canadian Prime Minister perhaps? I mean let's face it, where else would someone with so much in the way of tenacity and integrity wind up? My point exactly.

This is how He will come...

29"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30"And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

31"And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Matthew:24:29-31

So, according to The Lord, Jesus Christ, Himself, His return will be a pysical one and visable to the entire world. There is no need for a new Messiah to be born and give His life as a sacrifice for God because He already did that... you may have heard of it, it was around 2000 years ago, and it is recorded in the BIBLE.


This is what He will do once He gets here...


31"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32"All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;

33and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

34"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

35'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;

36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?

38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?

39'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'

40"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

41"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;

43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'

44"Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'

45"Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'

46"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Matthew 25:31-46

These are the Lords own words. He didn't say that he would just say "You have been very naughty children so no dessert for you tonight". He makes it very clear that those who choose to reject His word and Lordship in this life will pay with eternal seperation from God.

LS

a guy once told me he was jesus and that he'd come back to check things out, i would of believed him if he wasnt sitting outside a train station busking

anyone who says that they are jesus is not gonna be taken seriosly, i think every mental health hospital has their own jesus or 2

but then again who's to say he isnt already here and see's what the world is like and wont come forward incase he gets locked up and tested on at area 51

Originally posted by Ricky B
a guy once told me he was jesus and that he'd come back to check things out, i would of believed him if he wasnt sitting outside a train station busking

I immediately thought of that ZZTop song: Jesus Just Left Chicago

When Jesus returns it won't be as a baby again with another life to live.

I believe the antichrist will appear to be Jesus Christ returned and that will fool many people. So it is important to be saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Some people think that when Christ returns they will walk up to Him and give Him an earful and I have even read someone say the would punch Him out. They say this because they have no idea who God is. Jesus is God and when He returns all He has to do is speak a word and that thing spoken, is accomplished. When someone stands before Christ, and they are still forming the words in their mind to sling at Christ, they will look into His eyes and His will look into theirs and they will realize that He is just and righteous and GOD. At that moment even though you may not like it, you will be completely powerless to a)tell Him off, b)punch Him in the face, c)overcome His decisions regarding your eternal destiny. Because you will know that He is GOD alone and He is IN CHARGE.

His coming will be so bright and intense that it will outshine the sun, and the sun and moon will appear to be without light. Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Originally posted by dbrandt
When Jesus returns it won't be as a baby again with another life to live.

Who told you that? I KNOW for a fact that you are guessing WRONG.

I believe the antichrist will appear to be Jesus Christ returned and that will fool many people.

Like I say, every time: you have already been fooled by your religion which is the true antichrist--working against the very things God stands for.

Christianity=division.
God=Unity.

Christianity=self-righteous judgment of others.
God=long-suffering divine wisdom and mercy.

Christianity=lip service.
God=foot-washing service.

So it is important to be saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Too bad it isn't up to us when that happens! God decides, not man.

Some people think

Maybe we should try a different approach? Such as not forming expectations? Such things ALWAYS lead to disappointment.

They say this because they have no idea who God is.

You must be joshing! Really?

Jesus is God and when He returns all He has to do is speak a word and that thing spoken, is accomplished.

Then why the 2000 year wait? Why the seige and destruction of Jerusalem? Why the inquisitions and crusades? Why the plague? Why the civil war and slavery and genocides? Why the two World Wars? Why Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Why the Holocaust? Why the firestorm going on this very minute across the ocean?
Why? Why? Why?

Is He deliberately making us suffer in our perpetual state of 'hurry up and wait' during which we continue to commit more and more heinous atrocities upon one another in the name of God, country, and freedom?!?!?

If He can't save all the world, but can acomplish anything instantly - with just a word from His mouth....what the heck is 2000 years going to do, either way? Why bother when He could have just been done with it way back when?

When someone stands before Christ, and they are still forming the words in their mind to sling at Christ, they will look into His eyes and His will look into theirs and they will realize that He is just and righteous and GOD.

What does 'righteous' mean to you, dbrandt? Because from what you claim as your theology, God is not righteous, nor just; in fact He's seldom even sensible or consistent!

I hope you are right in what you say - for your own sake - so that you will realize just how perfect and FORGIVING He really is!

At that moment even though you may not like it, you will be completely powerless to a)tell Him off, b)punch Him in the face, c)overcome His decisions regarding your eternal destiny. Because you will know that He is GOD alone and He is IN CHARGE.

Then why don't you know it NOW? Why do you insist that God won't do as He, Himself, said He would do and SAVE ALL MEN?

Mk, well I personally don't believe in religion and believe Jesus was just a preacher-man, born from a mother who, for whatever reason decided to say she did'nt have relations.
However, if I was to hypothesize a scenario as the original poster asked.

I envision a guy in a causla business suit with a ponytail and brown hair with those small business glasses/sunglasses talking on a cell phone.
Than all the sudden he stops talking and realises; "Holy shi'ite, I'm F-ing Jesus!"
Than he go's on to do whatever he's suppose to do.

Originally posted by tasteslikethunder
just a question for all those true believers, or non believers with imaginations. in the real world, lets say tomorrow...how would jesus "come back." ? what is the theory on this? in real terms. obviously a bearded man in white robes riding down on galloping gold horses in a bolt of white light isnt really plausable. so how then? how would we expect him to show himself, if that is infact what you believe, or imagine. i'm honestly not judging, just always been curious....is there a modern theory on this?

My study of comparative myth, religion, symbols, iconography...throw in some modern physical science and viola...

Jesus the Messiah is revealed to the initiate on two levels...

Within the microcosmic individual we find the universal archetype known as Jesus...it is the story every man, woman and child can relate to on a personal level...

On a larger scale, the patterns suggest the Earth also goes through the same 4 Ages.

Birth > Life > Death > Rebirth...the same 4 phases of the Moon,
Waxing > Full > Waning > New...and we find these are the same 4 phases the Egyptians incorporated into their myth which was linked to the annual flooding of the Nile or the 4 seasons that regulated the northern and southern climates.

So my cosmogony, my philosophy suggests that the Messiah is indeed an Apocalypic event.
Often the individual dies (without physically dying) but they become 'reborn'.

Or on a larger scale...there is hope that the collective will be 'spiritually reborn' but if we fail to come to this realization...the Mother Earth will die and she also will be 'physically reborn', this would be the 4th Age or stage...not unlike the flood or deluge that would annually bring a new Golden spring harvest to the Nile Delta.

A delta is a triangle and a fertility symbol.
The 4 delta regions or triangles when placed together represent a square.
A square represents esoterically 'Creation', or the Kabbalists call it the Tetragrammaton or the 4-Fold Process...i.e. 1D > 2D > 3D of Space + 1D ot Time

4 Dimensions = SpaceTime

This coincides with the 4 Cradle Civilizations that were ALL centered around river deltas.

No coincidence.

Because we have failed to live in harmony with the our Mother Earth...which represents the feminine sacred...the coming messiah (apocalyptic geo-physical changes) will wipe the slate clean.

IMHO

Read my thread 'Apocalypse and The Blue Messenger', it helps support my theory.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

namaste

Raphael




[edit on 7-8-2006 by Kachina]

Originally posted by Kachina
My study of comparative myth, religion, symbols, iconography...throw in some modern physical science and viola...

We must have attended the same 'college!'

Jesus the Messiah is revealed to the initiate on two levels...

Within the microcosmic individual we find the universal archetype known as Jesus...it is the story every man, woman and child can relate to on a personal level...

On a larger scale, the patterns suggest the Earth also goes through the same 4 Ages.

Yes!

It seems to me, also, that the 'initial' initiate of any given phase becomes the 'manifest destiny' of the planet. The representative, or leader by example, so to speak, of the essential energy which defines the emerging consciousness of the 'new' age.

So my cosmogony, my philosophy suggests that the Messiah is indeed an Apocalypic event.
Often the individual dies (without physically dying) but they become 'reborn'.

Although I doubt many christians (who claim the Messiah for themselves exclusively--not even the Jews do that!) would agree ~ the desire for a zombie-king out of the sky is the only possible Apocalyptic event in their projected reality ~ the true meaning of the word 'apocalypse' is not primarily eschatological in nature, but rather simply means 'an unveiling,' the same as the word 'revelation.'

For the individual the revelation is the unveiling of their soul ~ as it is manifested, not as the separate entity the ego promotes, but as an integral part of God's being. And for the world, the individual's experience serves as both witness and encouragement along the path set before us, as the world (meaning the people, not the planet).

As far as what you are saying, I agree ~ in this case apocalyptic understanding can only bring and end to the current 'world' in order to begin building the new one. The change that is before us is probably the most radical one so far undertaken. But I'm only postulating on that point... Only God knows, for sure, IMO.

Or on a larger scale...there is hope that the collective will be 'spiritually reborn' but if we fail to come to this realization...the Mother Earth will die and she also will be 'physically reborn', this would be the 4th Age or stage...not unlike the flood or deluge that would annually bring a new Golden spring harvest to the Nile Delta.

Harvest and seed-times ~ these are recurring symbols of significance, I've found. (I'm sure you have found the same, right?)

And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. Genesis 8:21-22

Then, in the next chapter, God makes a pact with Noah, and the seal of the agreement is the rainbow. 7 colors in the rainbow, 7 chakras with corresponding hues ~ seven angels, seven seals, seven spirits around the throne of the Ancient of Days...

As you said regarding the energy of the number '4' ~ no coincidence!

Because we have failed to live in harmony with the our Mother Earth...which represents the feminine sacred...the coming messiah (apocalyptic geo-physical changes) will wipe the slate clean.

On another thread, I called that our failure in stewardship (husbandry of the vineyard) which was given to Adam and Eve in Genesis...and then, in Revelation, the same idea pops up again:

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Revelation 11:18

But since we are promised that not all flesh will be destroyed again by a flood ~ of which the rainbow continues without fail to testify ~ and there is much talk of the 'remnant' and the 'residue' of those who obey God's commandments (which go along with the husbandry theme: 'be fruitful and multiply' and 'subdue all the earth') and have the 'testimony of Jesus Christ' which is the spirit of prophesy (which isn't primarily prognostication but rather being a channel for communication with the Most High God ~ initiates?)

I have personally been given, to understand, that this time there will be mass 'reconstruction and remodeling,' which means rearrangement of the terra firma as well as the populace. But there will be a portion left ~ we are not going to have to start all the way over ~ more like just a 'new lease on life.' The only thing destined for total destruction is our current wasteful and selfish mode of lifestyle. (speaking of the human condition and worldly perspective, in general)

[edit on 8/7/2006 by queenannie38]

To the original poster, why don't you see what occurs in Revelation as something that would really happen?

To queenannie, why do you quote the Bible without being a believer of Christ (aka Christian)?