how will he come?

just a question for all those true believers, or non believers with imaginations. in the real world, lets say tomorrow...how would jesus "come back." ? what is the theory on this? in real terms. obviously a bearded man in white robes riding down on galloping gold horses in a bolt of white light isnt really plausable. so how then? how would we expect him to show himself, if that is infact what you believe, or imagine. i'm honestly not judging, just always been curious....is there a modern theory on this?

Mate, seriously, if Jesus were to come again, if he were not able to turn # into pure gold, he would be locked up in a psychiatric Hospital and pumped full of drugs until he repented for his sins of blasphemy.

Who would take Jesus seriously without some mega miracle to justify his claims? We are not as stupid as society was 2006 years ago! (Then again for you Yanks out there who voted bush in again, I beg to differ with the previous quotation)

KOZAK - Live free or die ffighting for it!

come on, no one? gotta be some imagination. come on christians, here's your chance to prove you have vision. come on athiests, heres your chance to throw around some stones... everyone else is invited as well... theory's? assumptions? anything?............

Originally posted by tasteslikethunder
just a question for all those true believers, or non believers with imaginations.

I used to be a 'true believer,' but since some unexpected, unprecedented, and totally unbelievable, events in my recent past--I've become an 'experiencer.' I'll tell you this--my imagination could never have come close to the reality I now know. The human mind truly cannot conceive of the unconceivable until it is made possible by a higher power of Mind.

in the real world, lets say tomorrow...how would jesus "come back." ? what is the theory on this?

I'm sure my input could not be considered any sort of 'mainstream' theory--but the theories that are most widely accepted are based upon an erroneous foundation--which is physical reality. What is to come is a spiritual reality--true reality--perhaps materiality will still play a part, but it will no longer be the 'king.' The spiritual consciousness will be the predominant consciousness. But for now, the world at large cannot see beyond the present reality. So there is little understanding of why a literal physical return of the man Jesus is not in the works. The resurrection we look forward to is that of our spirit, not our body. Resurrecting dead bodies is more like voodoo than miracle. It's rather a creepy image in my mind when I ponder it. Something out of a Rob Zombie movie--with zombies emerging worldwide to follow an animated corpse.

in real terms. obviously a bearded man in white robes riding down on galloping gold horses in a bolt of white light isnt really plausable.

No doubt. It would be an awesome sight, though, if it were. I used to think that very thing.

so how then? how would we expect him to show himself, if that is infact what you believe, or imagine.

Christ will show Himself in His 'saints.' We are the instruments of His manifestation. Individual resurrection is the literal 'coming to life' of Christ within the human soul. Then the spirit lives, without fear of death, even though for the time being the physical body still houses the soul's body, in which the living spirit now resides. When the body dies, the soul lives on, quickened by God's living Spirit.

Outside source: KJV, public domain
(2 Thessalonians 1:7 KJV) And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

(2 Thessalonians 1:10 KJV) When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

In the first verse, 'with' is a word that means a closer relationship than just 'beside.' It is more like 'amid'. And in the second verse, 'in' (his saints) is a word that describes 'instrumentality.' In other words, the 'saints' are the instrument for the glorification of God's true nature. Which is, BTW, not vengeance, authoritarianism, or tyrannical unfair judgment--it is simply and purely just love and acceptance. So those who would strive to this legitimate sort of 'sainthood' must love all souls without favoritism or reservation--absolutely no judgement is ever required on our part in order to show others the truth of God and what the purpose of His plan has been since the start. And the purpose is Unity; with God and with each other.

Hey queenannie38, please read Mark 4:17, as this seems to be written about you.

First there will be a rapture, when Jesus returns at the end of the 7 year tribulation, the Bible describes it as like a lighting from East and West. He will destroy all the armies at Armageddon with a spoken word. Everyone will see him coming from the clouds and weep. He will send his angels to gather his own who are still living and the rest will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Originally posted by Muscle D
Hey queenannie38, please read Mark 4:17, as this seems to be written about you.

It is easy to make the wrong assumption about someone whom you know nothing of except a few words written in a forum post.

If you knew me, you'd know Mark 4:20 is where I fit in that particular comparison. As for being offended, well... I gave that up some time ago. Certainly if a person cannot offend me, the perfect message of the gospel wouldn't hurt a bit. In fact, it feels nothing but good to know what the true nature of the good news is.

First there will be a rapture,

the rest will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Yeah. Right.

If I had a nickel for every rote recitation of that tired, indoctrinated speech I've ever heard....

Well, you know the drill.

I hope you don't mind if I recommend a verse or two for your consideration:

1 Timothy 1:4 - 16 and 4:7 - 12

2 Peter 1:16 - 21

Practice Berean nobility, if you dare.

He will come through the spirit, and if you want Him coming into a body, just pray then, I'd like to see the messias return for Him to put His hands upon me. Although I know the one guides me through all his Saints and Angles, through all my fellow men and woman, His words cast out of their mouths, making me enjoy and love them equally. This is the life.

I am glad with his miracles, joyeus with his sights, unfrightened by his words, blessed with his movements. As long as the spirit is within me, as long as he fills my consciounce with the Word, with the energy of the Christ, I've been blessed, I've been teached.

Go forth.

I have found some scriptural references to the day of the Lord in my recent readings of the KJV of the OT. I take this as a reference to the second coming of Christ.

Joel 1:15
Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Joel 2:2-10
2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
2:4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
2:5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
2:6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
2:7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
2:8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
2:9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

So much for the benevolent Christ of the NT coming down white-robed on a beam of light.

One more little tidbit from Amos, if you need more convincing.

Amos
5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Should ask a Jew. Their smart and they are the the chosen ones.

Us goy are Fuc&ed so I'll continue to watch hockey and chugg ranch dressing.

do a google search and type in blue beam project, or vist the watcherfiles.com, that will give you some idea how his return is being planned

Bluebeam won' t be his return bro.

Thats something juuuuuust a bit different

Queenannie38 7-03-2006 says it all!
We need to grow up spiritually. Enjoy Star Wars for what it is (great science fiction which says something about humanity). Grow beyond the adolescent religious idea of end times.

well that sucks, so we dont even get to see the guy, were just supposed to "feel" him. I had visions of the cnn coverage, and the oprah interview.

plus i gotta little water i need turning.

I was really looking forward to that birkinstock sandle endoursement.

nobody will know, but i like many others believe they are watching out for someone, and who ever they are looking for is in for a very hard time.

that person life will be taken away from them, as soon as there is any hint at all, there is such a person in this world.

but lastly we are not supposed to know, when that time will be, just leave it upto whoever runs this world to worry about such things.

[edit on 30-6-2006 by andy1033]

Originally posted by andy1033
that person life will be taken away from them, as soon as there is any hint at all, there is such a person in this world.

Don't you think, though, that that person would have already given up their life, as a living sacrifice (with the inherent possibility of becoming a burnt sacrifice) to God?

The Olivet Discourses - the sermons from the Mount of Olives - are often referenced in the discussion of the end times. Matthew 24:1-25:46 is the text used, and you can use Mark 13 and Luke 21 as references that parallel the most detailed Gospel.

At the Mount of Olives, Christ answers the questions of the Apostles have about His return. As you read, some of these events happened within a century, others have been going on the past two millenia, and - there are events in the future. Some of the more relevant passages deal with false prophets and false Saviors. Matthew also records a time when "24:12. And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold." - sounds a bit like now, doesn't it. In this Gospel, Christ also speaks of a time when the world worships as one (to paraphrase) - we are a LOONG way from there, I wager.

Icarus - When Christ returns, He returns as a King and Judge. Is this a bad thing? Not if you have lived the life that Christ has instructed us to live. Alien, I would be interested in seeing your sources for the return of Christ being purely in the spirit. Nothing I've read suggests this.

Nowhere in Matthew, Mark, or Luke do we read about the events recorded in Revelations. And that is a book that is even more hotly debated. At the End of Days, the final rendering is done and the world will be remade. What happens to the 'unworthy'? Well, my doctrine teaches that God is love and that we are damned only in that we turn our eyes from Him. Those who have exercised their Free Will and turned from God will have to deal with that. I don't see that attending weekly services on the list Christ spoke of. He spoke of feeding the hungry, tending to the sick, the weary, those full of sorrow. While I believe - obviously - that organized religion is important, I think that this is not the most important element of being saved in the end. And the end for those who do not tend to the poor and needy will be harsh. They will be judged as being just as rebellious as the fallen angels who dwell in Hell. Hell is a discussion for another day....

"24:50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day that he hopeth not and at an hour that he knoweth not:" This is telling us that there will be signs but no 'roadmap'. According to the Gospel, Christ is telling us that there ARE no signs, no warnings, no checklist. The Gospel also tells us that the faithful servant will be rewarded and the hypocritical one will be harshly judged. Personally, I think of this passage as being important to a number of people. Just going to church or synagouge or temple or whatever once a week is not sufficient. Personally, I believe that there are people who haven't stepped foot in a church in years who will not be judged unworthy. While I am an ardent Roman Catholic (as some of you know), I am not so narrowminded to claim that the other 5/6ths of the world's population is damned.

I hope you are sitting down, Queenie, but I agree with you that we need to grow up spiritually. I have no idea what soured you to the church, but we are all not bad folk. When you aren't spouting invective, you make a lot of sense. I wouldn't be so presumptious to ascribe Mark 4:17 to you. I am assuming that some of your more imflammatory remarks are satirical. Once again, I like your posts that are rooted in substance much more thoroughly.

Originally posted by shantyman
I hope you are sitting down, Queenie, but I agree with you that we need to grow up spiritually. I have no idea what soured you to the church, but we are all not bad folk.

I have nothing against any folks--and I don't subscribe to 'good' and 'bad.' Just 'truth' and 'delusion.' I'm not criticizing any soul when I denigrate the 'church.' It's not about people, but about an idea, an institution, a broad path. But even at that, I understand perfectly well that God is in charge of all things--religion had its purpose, delusion has its purpose--to every thing a season. But seasons pass and I remain open to God's directive.

When you aren't spouting invective, you make a lot of sense.

Invectives are usually sensible to the inveigher...so I guess that's understandable.

Once again, I like your posts that are rooted in substance much more thoroughly.

Thank you.

I imagine Hell would be exposed to the presence of God, and then removed from that presense.

Dont need fire and brimstone, lakes of burning sulphur or knashing of teeth. It would be enough to know god and then forever banned. How does Christ return...anyway he chooses i think.

Don't get me wrong now, the return of Christ in all His Glory will be the defining moment in the spiritual lives of all humanity, but I think it may be somewhat of a train wreck for the physical world. To reference the quote about the spread of iniquity and the hypocritical nature of today's society, there is quite alot of 'chaff' out there that will be consumed in the tribulations. We are talking about billions of people, two-thirds of the world's population, perishing.

Again, how will he come?

Matthew 26

63 But Jesus held his peace. The high priest answered him, "I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God."

64 Jesus said to him, "You have said it. Nevertheless, I tell you, after this you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of the sky."

What will be the outcome for many?

Revelation 14

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

There are eight furlongs in a mile, so we are talking here about a river of blood over three feet deep that stretches for nearly 200 miles.

Jesus, the Almighty, will decide who is allowed to come before His Father, the Creator. I believe it will be those who have followed His teachings and expressed their salvation by grace through faith in good works.

I believe hell may be a journey, something you pass through, more than a destination. A separation from the Holy Trinity caused by unrepented sin or spiritual wrongdoing. To have this be a perpetual condition or permanent location goes against, I believe, Christs' unconditional love for all His Sheep and His eternal desire for all to achieve salvation.

Originally posted by toolman

I imagine Hell would be exposed to the presence of God, and then removed from that presense.

Dont need fire and brimstone, lakes of burning sulphur or knashing of teeth. It would be enough to know god and then forever banned. How does Christ return...anyway he chooses i think.

Absolutely right - at least from my perspective. I think it was St. John of the Cross who wrote at length about how the pits of brimstone, torture, thirst, terror, torment - the concept of Hell at it's most unimaginable worst - pales beside the knowledge that the damned soul is damned because he or she turned his face from the God that only demands from us love.