ATS: Iranian President Attempting to Start Armaggedon?

I GOT IT I GOT IT I GOT IT... I know what the plan is.....

They are not going to bomb Iran.

Here it is, they are going to cut off the head of Iran and merge Iraq and Iran under US Western Alliance rule.

This Crazy Iranian president is going to create a firestorm, meanwhile the quietly brewing #e rebellion is going to storm all the goverment buildings.

And in the meantime, our special forces and advanced mechanized divisions are going to move in on the ALQ Top officials in IRAN. This is going to leave Iran without a goverment and the extremists in the run.. (of course this requires another attack on us soil by ALQ with the US "intercepting" the go commands coming from a location within IRAN)

The now #e controlled Iraq is going to offer a helping hand and a new Persia is going to be formed.

Thats the secret bargining, let us come in and shake things up, give us some oil deeds and in return we will rebuild from two countries a powerful Islamic state for you. And then as long as you place nice you will have the middle east and money and what everelse you want as long as you help us get rid of the extremists and value "some" westernized ways of freedom.

Oh man its perfect

Originally posted by robertfenix

Thats the secret bargining, let us come in and shake things up, give us some oil deeds and in return we will rebuild from two countries a powerful Islamic state for you. And then as long as you place nice you will have the middle east and money and what everelse you want as long as you help us get rid of the extremists and value "some" westernized ways of freedom.

Oh man its perfect

the problem with your theory is that their form of islam is the basis behind the extremists views and actions.

I think you would find the majority of the Iraninan population would not support the extremists viewpoint given the choice.

I think as a whole the population of Iran would very much like to get out from under the strict hard line rule of the clerics.

Maybe they will still prefer the moral guidance of a religious based Goverment but one that stands for freedom and tolerance not extreme hatered.

I think thats why we are reluctant to punish the Iranian people for the actions of corrupt Govermental body which has made it almost impossible for the true voice of the Iranian people to be heard.

Thats why the US will not nuke Iran. Why we have tried and still are trying to tip the tables my empowering the general population to take control of their own destiny and to overthrow their own goverment.

Our CIA agents have worked very hard and we shall soon see what the fruits of those efforts are going to bare.

Keep in mind that alot of CIA agents have already died over this due to the leaks and being double crossed by a special agent.


Oh the life of covert ops...

[edit on 20-1-2006 by robertfenix]

i actually agree with most of what you just posted. the problem, of course, is that in order for the iranian people to rise up, there has to be some kind of an instigator. i dont see this happening any time soon. and if iran is attacked, nationalism will more than likely cause the pro-western iranians to remain loyal to the government, much as what happened during the iran-iraq war. imprisoned iranian airforce pilots begged to be allowed to use their technical skill to fight for their country....and were allowed to do just that.

[edit on 20-1-2006 by snafu7700]

I am starting to beleive that Armaggedon is exactly what he is looking for.
Here is a thread that SIRRI has started that indicated Tehran plans a nuke weaposn test before 3/20/2006 their New Year.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Add this to the fact that Iran has now pulled all their assets aout fo both the US as well as European Banks. It looks like they are doing a heck of a lot more than saber rattling

Wow, it sounds like the person who wrote this article just found out what Shia Islam is.

Shia's believe in this 12th hidden Immam who will come back at the end of days and bring peace and tranquility to governments. And....guess what....Iran is a Shia nation! Not only that, but Shia's generally identify themselves with martyrdom as Husayn, the grandson of the Muhammad, was murdered by a large and powerful force. They celebrate 'Ashura to commemorate the death of Husayn. And so Shia's view themselves as martyrs fighting against all odds.

Once again, to reiterate, Iran is a Shia nation, so that the President of a Shia country would share Shia views is no surprise. It seems though that this entire article is based on a rumor...

A common rumour - denied by the government but widely believed - is that Mr Ahmadinejad and his cabinet have signed a "contract" pledging themselves to work for the return of the Mahdi and sent it to Jamkaran.

I've seen no indication that the Iranian President is trying to bring about the apocalypse of the world. You could say the same thing about a Christian president trying to bring about Christ's return.

This is just propaganda and rectal journalism operating on a "rumor."

[edit on 20-1-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by Jamuhn

I've seen no indication that the Iranian President is trying to bring about the apocalypse of the world. You could say the same thing about a Christian president trying to bring about Christ's return.

This is just propaganda and rectal journalism operating on a "rumor."

[edit on 20-1-2006 by Jamuhn]

once again, fundamental christians do not believe that they can expedite the return of the messiah. these guys do, and are trying to acquire nuclear weapons. huge difference there.

Originally posted by snafu7700
once again, fundamental christians do not believe that they can expedite the return of the messiah. these guys do, and are trying to acquire nuclear weapons. huge difference there.

You know....this entire sepculative article is based on this "rumor" as I stated before:

A common rumour - denied by the government but widely believed - is that Mr Ahmadinejad and his cabinet have signed a "contract" pledging themselves to work for the return of the Mahdi and sent it to Jamkaran.

Not to mention, this is believed by Western officials....I'm sure they have no agenda and neither does the author of this article.

Where is your evidence that "these guys" or whatever that means are trying to expedite the return of the 12th Immam?

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Where is your evidence that "these guys" or whatever that means are trying to expedite the return of the 12th Immam?

where is your proof that they arent? even when asked in the video, he does not deny it....simply does the old political side step.

Originally posted by snafu7700
where is your proof that they arent? even when asked in the video, he does not deny it....simply does the old political side step.

MMmmmm, I believe the job is up to you to prove that this Shia President in a Shia Nation is trying to expedite the return of the hidden Immam. Just as in the Bible it says to be ready for the second coming of Jesus, as is Iran's president saying be pure for the return of the Mahdi.

You act like this is happening in a Western secularized country, but this is a country under Islamic rule, it's not a secular country, and this is happening in a place where the majority of the country believe in the return of the 12th Immam.

i have ignored the remarks of my acting as though i have only just learned about shia islam. however, at this point is seems to me that you are the ignorant one. if Ahmadinejad is a "twelver" then he by definition believes that the end times can be expedited. if you understand the religion at all you know this to be true. my proof is already here....in the sources provided with the article and in infinite's video. if you want to prove that he is not a member of this sect and therefore does not believe that he can bring the messiah back sooner, then the burden of proof is on you

Originally posted by snafu7700
i have ignored the remarks of my acting as though i have only just learned about shia islam.

Actually, I was referring to the person who wrote the article, you simply copy and pasted parts of it and a link to it.

if Ahmadinejad is a "twelver"

Well, most Shias do believe in the twelve imams....

then he by definition believes that the end times can be expedited.

To fulfill Muhammad's prophecy, the Iranian president would probably be an unjust ruler to his own people, persecuting them.

my proof is already here....in the sources provided with the article and in infinite's video.

That's called speculation, not proof.

if you want to prove that he is not a member of this sect and therefore does not believe that he can bring the messiah back sooner, then the burden of proof is on you

The difference is that you are trying to prove he is actively trying to summon their messiah, which you haven't proven.

[edit on 20-1-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Actually, I was referring to the person who wrote the article, you simply copy and pasted parts of it and a link to it.

fine. then clarify that next time.

Well, most Shias do believe in the twelve imams....

which is quite different from being a true believer of the hidden imam.

To fulfill Muhammad's prophecy, the Iranian president would probably be an unjust ruler to his own people, persecuting them.

if he truelly believes that he would bring the messiah back sooner, then he would not be any more worried about the suffering of his people than the terrorists in iraq are about islamic civilian casualties.

That's called speculation, not proof.

lets see.....he belongs to a sect (and contributes 10 million to that same sect) that believes they can bring the messiah back sooner. it stands to reason that he, also believes this. call it speculation if you want, but for all your rhetoric, i have not seen any source from you that would refute this. put up or shut up.

The difference is that you are trying to prove he is actively trying to summon their messiah, which you haven't proven.

guilt by association. like i have said, where's your proof that he's not?

more rhetoric from the esteemed iranian president:

ATSNN: Ahmadinejad Tells Europe to Take Back Jews

Originally posted by snafu7700

Well, most Shias do believe in the twelve imams....

which is quite different from being a true believer of the hidden imam.

Please, explain to us the difference...with references of course. I'm always willing to learn.

lets see.....he belongs to a sect (and contributes 10 million to that same sect) that believes they can bring the messiah back sooner.

Do you have any references verifying that people are actively trying to bring the Mahdi back sooner?

guilt by association. like i have said, where's your proof that he's not?

I'm still waiting for you to offer more than your parrot-like repitition of what others are saying. C'mon, I know you can do better than empty words.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Please, explain to us the difference...with references of course. I'm always willing to learn.

i'd apologize for taking so long to get back to you (its been one helluva busy week), but considering that you havent bothered to back your own claims up with sources as i asked, while continuing to tell me that i need to provide more sources than i already have, i dont really feel too badly about it.

i guess if youre too lazy to look up the material yourself, i'll attempt to educate you.....just this once.

the difference is very similar to the differences between fundamental christians and say, catholic christians. these true believers think that the hidden imam will return (and indeed that his return can be expedited) to bring in the final battle, and rule on earth for several years, after which, jesus christ will return, as well as several other imams. going to a prayer meeting of these true believers is very much akin to a fundamental christian revival.

Waiting for the rapture in Iran

Jamkaran

reading iran

Do you have any references verifying that people are actively trying to bring the Mahdi back sooner?

sure...here ya go:

iran government urging the hidden imam to help

“You don’t understand. These non turbaned men like the Iranian President Mahmmoud) Ahmadi Nezhad and others like him are the real believer in Shi’a scripts, not most of the akhound, who are aware of the theatre their ancestors have written and they continue to play. Have you ever heard of an akhound going to war or commits suicide except some crazy like Moqtada (al Sadr, the Iraqi rebel cleric manipulated by the Iranians)?” my friend, probably one of best Iranian connoisseurs of the mollah’s mind system told me.

“At the start of the meeting”, Entekhab reported, “First Vice President (Parviz Davoudi) proposed that the same as a misaq had been signed between the ministers and the President, one such promise letter must also be passed with the Imam of All Times. The proposal was greeted by all the members of the cabinet who, after discussing the terms of the Pact, they signed it.

According to some Shi’a superstitions, Mehdi is supposed to come out from that well and anyone with any wish can help advancing the time of his apparition by writing to him and recite one thousand times “Mohammad is the Prophet of God and Ali is His Representative”.

reading iran
During my latest visit to Iran in November, I decided to visit Jamkaran after reading a report in a newspaper of a . In the speech he had urged Iranians to work hard for the return of the imam zaman, who, according to Shia eschatology, will return at a time of great crisis, defeat the enemies of God and establish an era of universal justice.

iran's leader's messianic end-times mission
He sees his main mission, as he recounted in a Nov. 16 speech in Tehran, as to "pave the path for the glorious reappearance of Imam Mahdi, may Allah hasten his reappearance."

Ahmadinejad's cabinet has given $17 million to Jamkaran.

now, i'm sure you'll have a problem with these sources, just as you did the other. so before you ask for another source, how about you provide a source proving me wrong? if you cant do that, then you have no argument.

I'm still waiting for you to offer more than your parrot-like repitition of what others are saying. C'mon, I know you can do better than empty words.

and i'm still waiting for you to put up or shut up. i already provided one source from the get go, and now i have provided more. for all your inflammatory remarks like the one above, you havent bothered to provide a single source to back your claims. that's just plain ignorant. the only reason i have bothered to respond with more sources is because i believe in the concept of "denying your ignorance." if you want to continue however, youre going to have to get off your lazy rear and provide your own sources.

anybody can be a smartass. actually holding a reasonable debate, now that takes talent...and so far all you've shown is your complete ignorance of the subject at hand.




[edit on 22-1-2006 by snafu7700]

Originally posted by snafu7700
but considering that you havent bothered to back your own claims up with sources as i asked, while continuing to tell me that i need to provide more sources than i already have, i dont really feel too badly about it.
i guess if youre too lazy to look up the material yourself, i'll attempt to educate you.....just this once.

I thought you knew about Shia Islam, why would you need references? Well, there isn't much "educating" going on here as there is copying and pasting links, not to be an ass about it, but I want you to understand the difference. So now you do recognize that Shias as a whole believe in the 12th hidden immam and its return. The controversy surrounds that the president of a country is talking about this.

First, I would like to point out that the Supreme Leader of Iran is the only who can declare war, currently this man is Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Second, this man issued a Fatwa against the stockpiliing, proliferation, or use of nuclear weapons. The President that we are speaking of carries out many of his daily tasks, but is not the commander-in-cheif of the military. But, also, Iran is an Islamic Republic whose official religion is Shia Islam. In 2004, thousands of candidates were banned from taking part in elections, which gave conservatives a significant boost in elected offices. I mean, this country's government is intertwined with religion. It's no wonder they have a president speaking of religion...

now, i'm sure you'll have a problem with these sources, just as you did the other. so before you ask for another source, how about you provide a source proving me wrong? if you cant do that, then you have no argument.

Well, if you think there is something wrong with the sources you are giving me, than you are probably right. I doubt the truth found within WND. But, the Prospect Magazine looks like a good article. It seems the group that is trying to bring back the mahdi sooner and with chaos is the Hojjatieh. But there is just more speculation about who is part of that group.

the only reason i have bothered to respond with more sources is because i believe in the concept of "denying your ignorance." actually holding a reasonable debate, now that takes talent...and so far all you've shown is your complete ignorance of the subject at hand.

All you've done is call me names, copy and past links, and then copy and paste quotes from those links. Sorry, but that is not called debating, use your own mind and say what you really think, not what others tell you to.

Honestly though, I don't know why this Iranian president is such a big deal as it seems the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is the one we really need to wonder about, seeing as it is him who declares war.

[edit on 23-1-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
I thought you knew about Shia Islam, why would you need references?

maybe because you specifically asked for them in your last post:

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Please, explain to us the difference...with references of course. I'm always willing to learn.

try not to backpeddle so much....its very unbecoming.

Well, there isn't much "educating" going on here as there is copying and pasting links,

that's how you post sources here. if you want them, that's how i have to give them according to the rules of this site. if you dont like that, take it up with the site administrator, but dont whine when i give you what you specifically ask for.

So now you do recognize that Shias as a whole believe in the 12th hidden immam and its return. The controversy surrounds that the president of a country is talking about this.

and as my sources show, there is a difference between the normal everyday shias and those hardliners who believe that they can bring back the messiah sooner with there own actions. you can dance around that issue all day, but the facts remain the same.

First, I would like to point out that the Supreme Leader of Iran is the only who can declare war, currently this man is Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Second, this man issued a Fatwa against the stockpiliing, proliferation, or use of nuclear weapons. The President that we are speaking of carries out many of his daily tasks, but is not the commander-in-cheif of the military.

and this is where you show your complete ignorance. i have mentioned several times a post on page two made by nerdling in which the views of the ayatollah are expressed by the ayatollah himself.....and guess what? it contradicts just about everything you just said. try actually reading all the material provided before you put your foot in your mouth.

But, also, Iran is an Islamic Republic whose official religion is Shia Islam.

no, really? your kidding right?

In 2004, thousands of candidates were banned from taking part in elections, which gave conservatives a significant boost in elected offices. I mean, this country's government is intertwined with religion. It's no wonder they have a president speaking of religion...

yup, which is part of my point. he was intentionally put forward by the mullahs for his hardline views. they and the ayatollah let him continue because they agree with him. thanks for contributing to the point of my post.

It seems the group that is trying to bring back the mahdi sooner and with chaos is the Hojjatieh. But there is just more speculation about who is part of that group.

well thank you for at least admitting that there is, indeed, a group of hardliners who believe this (but it does contradict your opening statements...why am i not surprised). i have shown ample material with my "cutting and pasting" to indicate Ahmadinejad is a member of this group. for the third time, if you disagree with this assertation provide some proof in the form of sources as to why i am wrong . all you do is use double speak without providing any new information. everything, and i mean everything you have said so far is already contained within this thread. add something new or admit your ignorance.

Honestly though, I don't know why this Iranian president is such a big deal

then you havent actually read any of the posts here. big surprise.

as it seems the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is the one we really need to wonder about, seeing as it is him who declares war.

wow, your just full of brilliant statements arent you? as i have mentioned many, many times now, go read nerdlings post reference the ayatollah. then come back when you have a little more education on the subject and can actually add something to the conversation, rather than just repeating material that is already covered on the thread.

Wow, I am surprised by your lack of tact and your mean-spiritied approach to discussion. I feel there is a major lack of communication between us, and I'm afraid that you do not want to understand different viewpoints or do accurate research.

One of my points is that news stories are simply being posted without explaining the significance of these stories, how they relate, or your opinions towards them. What I'm trying to do and encourage others to do is to put these stories in the context of the social and cultural environments.

Another point is that there has been no reference to the commander-in-cheif of the armed forces in Iran, that of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. You do realize that Nerdling's post referred to a different Ayatollah, don't you? There is no "the Ayatollah," there are multiple Ayatollahs in Iran, and the commander-in-cheif of Iran is Ali Khamenei, not Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani. Do you understand this?

Next time, get off your high-horse, do some research, and stop spreading ignorance and propaganda about topics.

[edit on 23-1-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Wow, I am surprised by your lack of tact and your mean-spiritied approach to discussion. I feel there is a major lack of communication between us, and I'm afraid that you do not want to understand different viewpoints or do accurate research.

really? that's kind of a funny thing to say considering that you are the one that started the smartass remarks. care for a review of some of your biggest hits?

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Wow, it sounds like the person who wrote this article just found out what Shia Islam is.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Please, explain to us the difference...with references of course. I'm always willing to learn.

and then when i did as you asked:

Originally posted by Jamuhn
I thought you knew about Shia Islam, why would you need references?

Originally posted by Jamuhn
I'm still waiting for you to offer more than your parrot-like repitition of what others are saying. C'mon, I know you can do better than empty words.

Well, there isn't much "educating" going on here as there is copying and pasting links, not to be an ass about it,

that's exactly what you were doing....being an ass.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
use your own mind and say what you really think, not what others tell you to.

which is exactly what i am doing.....taking many different references and telling the people here what my opinion of the situation is. if you disagree with that opinion, tell me why and back it up with references. continuing to blindly attack while providing no links to back up your statements is called ignorance, which is what this site was specifically designed to combat

One of my points is that news stories are simply being posted without explaining the significance of these stories, how they relate, or your opinions towards them.

more proof that you are only half reading my posts, because i very clearly state what i believe the significance of the story is and my opinion thereof.

What I'm trying to do and encourage others to do is to put these stories in the context of the social and cultural environments.

no, what you have been trying to do is attack me personally without actually providing any sources to back up your claims.

Another point is that there has been no reference to the commander-in-cheif of the armed forces in Iran, that of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. You do realize that Nerdling's post referred to a different Ayatollah, don't you? There is no "the Ayatollah," there are multiple Ayatollahs in Iran, and the commander-in-cheif of Iran is Ali Khamenei, not Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani. Do you understand this?

yes, as a matter of fact i do. first, thank you for actually providing a source for your comments for a change. second....if, as you mentioned above, the supreme leader issued a "Fatwa against the stockpiliing, proliferation, or use of nuclear weapons", then why would another ayatollah disregard that fatwa? i believe the supreme leaders comments to be simply more political double speak....in fact, they would have to be, because disregarding his fatwa would be grounds for a death sentence, right?

Next time, get off your high-horse, do some research, and stop spreading ignorance and propaganda about topics.

interesting comment coming from someone who has neglected to do just that....research.

if you truelly would like to debate the material at hand, feel free to do so. but back up your statements with sources. and if you continue the personal attacks, i will continue the condescending manner in which i reply to said attacks.