ATS: Iranian President Attempting to Start Armaggedon?

Before we all go off in favor of "offing" the President of Iran let's keep one thing in sight; Saddam was also considered a mad man by the western world who was ready to destroy all with his WMD's.

Could this End Times and the ushering in the Second Coming be another engineered excuse to invade Iran?

I'm not a fan of Iran nor jihad but we (the West) could ignite Ammagedden(sp?) ourselves by rushing into yet another planned conflict for global oil domination, one world order, etc. We must keep in mind that the trading partners of Iran have been the former Soviet Union, China, India and a host of western countires.

With the Iraq conflict we have essentially deprived the former Soviet states, China and India of much need oil. This is especially true of India and China who have fast growing and emerging economies and look on the West as competitors. They have much to lose if Iran should be invaded or the government become unstable.

It is not as simple as "taking out" the Iranian President radical or not. Additionally, we will make Iran or their president martyrs and inspire yet another generation of suicide bombers and terrorist.

From a personal standpoint look at the increase in fuel costs since the Iraq invasion. An invasion of Iran, even a perception of such, would send prices soring beyond any imaginings, cause shortages, economic upheavals, and even domestic violence (ala New Orleans/ Katrina).

It's strange for a website that purports to believe in the existance of conspiracy theories we are all willing to accept the popular media's version of Iran.

Now is the time for cooler heads to prevail not hawks!

Richard of Danbury

Actually from what I have read and heard, the Iranian president, no matter who it is, has very little actual power...most of the true political and military power resides with the Grand Ayyatolah and the revolutionary council, so if that is so then their president is just another blowhard figurehead spouting steam. No matter how things go down America will not attack Iran. China will not allow it. Mark my word if we start threatening chinese interests, like their oil from Iran, they will put an end to the matter posthaste and there isn't much Bush and co. will be able to do about it. Think about it...China holds the largest amount of U.S. defict loans...if they feel threatened all they have to do is merely suggest that they will call in those loans to bring this government to its knees. The other reality is this...the American military is simply stertched too thin to do much of anything else than what its already doing. Do you really think Bush would try and go through the UN to deal with this situation if we weren't? It takes a bare minimum of 2 support (at least) for every boot which is why the National Guard and Reserves were called up. We simply do not have enough soldiers to do all the neo-cons want us to do. Now what Isreal does about Iran, now thats an all together different story.

Originally posted by grover
Actually from what I have read and heard, the Iranian president, no matter who it is, has very little actual power...most of the true political and military power resides with the Grand Ayyatolah and the revolutionary council, so if that is so then their president is just another blowhard figurehead spouting steam.

check out nerdlings post on page two of this thread concerning comments by the ayatollah. its not just the president, even if he is just a figurehead (which i personally doubt).

The president is not a puppet, but a carefully chosen person who is the first non-cleric elected in over 20 years. Read a little bit about this guy and you may change your mind. He is an academic and a soldier,

www.globalsecurity.org...

He cut his teeth as a revolutionary, and I feel he will not back down anytime soon. Please follow the link and read the article as I do not want to paste a bunch of quotes, but it is very interesting. This guy won't just bark, he will bite and that may be what the religious leaders of Iran needed.

Ahmadinejad could be pushing forward the Christian and Jewish prophesies as well.

If there is another war there, the Islamic mosques may finally be destroyed and a new Jewish temple finally built.

[edit on 1/16/2006 by djohnsto77]

Just as Richard does, I'm seriously wondering if this is not just somekind of massive propaganda aimed at demonizing Iran's president, in order to put everyone behind the West in an eventual attack... just as what the US and UK media did with Saddam back in the first Gulf War when they invaded Iraq. Of course the guy is an muslim extremist... but really, is THAT much crazy to the extent of calling for the end times and the return of his Messiah??? Or perhaps this is all just twin-sided propaganda, and he's a puppet of the NWO... used to unleash the armageddon that the global elite needs for pushing forward its global governement.

[edit on 16/1/06 by Echtelion]

Echtelion said:
Or perhaps this is all just twin-sided propaganda, and he's a puppet of the NWO... used to unleash the armageddon that the global elite needs for pushing forward its global governement.

Bingo. Think about this, people. Its no stranger than Sirhan Sirhan and the killing of RFK. I mean, if you believe a guy can be hypnotized to murder like Sirhan (which I do believe), then how much more deep and effective would that brainwashing be when the guy gets made president? He must feel like he's 500 ft. tall right now. He appears ready to go out in a blaze of heavenly glory and he doesn't seem to care if it costs some of his citizen's lives. He could very easily be an NWO tool to bring about the big shebang.

Regardless, I think the only solution lies in an uprising from young people in Iran. They need some kind of student rebellion or something.



[edit on 16-1-2006 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by Lumos
This is not an excellent point, it's a weak one.

What reason is there to believe such statements coming out of Iran were alarming while the same religious conjecture out of Washington DC was just "over-zealous"? Who of the two was waging offensive wars commandeered by their religious zealots last time you checked?

Do tell us where has president Bush or anyone in the Bush administration said that "we need to wipe off the map Iran" or any other country?....


That's the difference.

Echtelion said:
Or perhaps this is all just twin-sided propaganda, and he's a puppet of the NWO... used to unleash the armageddon that the global elite needs for pushing forward its global governement.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Bingo. Think about this, people. Its no stranger than Sirhan Sirhan and the killing of RFK. ... He appears ready to go out in a blaze of heavenly glory and he doesn't seem to care if it costs some of his citizen's lives. He could very easily be an NWO tool to bring about the big shebang.

Skunk Works: Is the Iranian President a Western Agent?

Fundamentalism is a tool used by Religion to control people.
.

[edit on 1/16/2006 by Gools]

read my post if you want to know who this guy is, He is not a western agent. He also hates Iraq and Sunnis. Has anyone wondered what would happen, know that there is no army there, if the were to try to invade after US withdrawl? or, what if the US strikes a nuke site, and they let lose a barrage of missles into Isreal and Iraq. There is your excuse to go into Iran......

i read the whole thing esdad....very nice information! this guy was an assassin on top of everything else. so lets see:

a former militia assassin, who is part of a sect which believes the end times can be expedited by the works of man in order to bring the messiah back sooner, who believes that israel should be blown off of the face of the earth, who also believes that the holocaust never happened, and who is (i'll concede allegedly) seeking nuclear capabilities for his country. yup, that's just about as scary a scenario as i can imagine.

On January 10th, Iran cut all the IAEA seals and restarted their reactors. If the IAEA were actually serious about stopping Iran from making nukes, they would have bombed the country for this act. Except, the IAEA has absolutly no power or influence in the world of nukes so all it can really do is scream and cry hoping for a reaction.

Good thing Bush got on TV somedays later and just pretty much announced a war due to complete lack of "Diplomacy" (he used this word several times incorrectly).

Brace yourselves. The "Iraq War" is about to get even bigger. Shrug*

Iran is Shiite Islam as opposed to Sunni Islam. The differences between the two are minor but go way back to the origins of Islam. Simply put the Shiite felt that after the death of the Prophet Muhammad, the mantle of prophet, or more exactly, protector of the faithful, (Caliph) should have passed to Muhammad's cousin (who did eventually become calipth briefly before being murdered) and all round right hand man, Ali. Instead the faithful decided to elect the Caliph instead, so in a sense the Shia are the equilivent of the Protestants in the west. They stood in protest against the established order. The Umayyad, and later the Abbasids made a point of hunting down and killing the decendants of Ali, whom their followers called Iman's or teachers. After ali's twin son's Husan and Husayn outside Karballah Iraq (It is their deaths that is celebrated there each year with mass rituals) the remaining Iman's went into hiding and communicated via various go betweens. Eventually those communica stopped and it was believed that the last Iman, the 12th had occulted, become hidden and rather supernatural, and it is the waiting for his return that distinguishes Iranian Shia to many of the other branches. It is this belief in the occultation of the 12th Iman, and the claim of the Baha'i' faiths founder the he was the 12th Iman that has lead to the vicious prosocution of the Baha'i's of Iran.
Until the 17th century Shia had always stood in oppisition to those in power and was the majority sect of Arabia. But then 2 things happened, a Shia prince seized the throne in Iran and made shia islam the state religion, and the rise of fundamentalism in arabia forced the shia out and north into Iraq.
I hope this little primer helps.

I'm a bit confused over islamic eschatology, in particular Shi'ia understanding of this.

From what I understand, the end of the world comes when the Mahdi is born, he organizes an army for god, it conquers evil, and then there is global peace afterwards. The Jewish, Christian, and Muslim religions all have this beleif system in them, its a characteristic of them.

Is my understanding correct? Perhaps muslims and shia here can elaborate, where's the Mahdi come from? I've heard one variation where he is born from a man. I know that the shia pay special attention to certain imams, like Ali. Is the Mahdi allways thought to be an Imam? Does that mean that he must be an arab? Is he the final Imam? Is the 'battle' aspect correct? Are all non-muslims destroyed in the battle, or is it that pagans and polytheists are destroyed, but jews and christians, as 'people of the book' are spared? Or are they all converted in the end?

How does 'shaitan' or satan figure into the end of the world? In christanity, there is an 'anti' christ, is there anything like that in the islamic version? Or is the loosing side not as organized?

the mahdi is the last or 12th iman who became hidden (date uncertian) and occulted. Shia only has this messiah aspect to it. Sunni as far as I know does not. Until recent reinterpations of it, the people of the book i.e. Jews, Christains, Zorasterians and Muslims were all protected and blessed though muslims got the most protection and blessings, it was apostates (the Baha'i's for example from their viewpoint) pagans and non-believers that were damned. Another thing when Iran refers to America as the great Satan, it is not the same as our idea of Satan. In Islam Satan is viewed as something of an inept buffoon and a fool, almost a trickester god. So when they refer to America as the great satan, they are just as easily calling us great fools as well.

What abit of prophecy jokers, do u read everything in the Holy Bible, and take it as the literal word of GOd? You gotta be kidding! Anyway, I don't believe the endtime will play out, as we expected it to be. We are being decieved programmed time and agin, to take the sides of the would be conquerers; take for example: this news headline: The world is Fed up of Iran. Who is? Certainly not me! Are u guys?

Originally posted by grover
In Islam Satan is viewed as something of an inept buffoon and a fool

I had understoodo satan in shi'ia to be sort of a force in opposition to the 'goodly/godly' guy, like Ali was goodly, abu bakr was influenced by or the pawn of Satan, etc.

Thanks for the other clarifications. So there is no 'end time' amoung the sunnis?

more on Ahmadinejad. evidently, he believes that the end will come within the next two years:

Originally posted by snafu7700
more on Ahmadinejad. evidently, he believes that the end will come within the next two years

Seems to be an expensive end then?

Iran ready to transfer 8 billion dollars from Europe because of fear they might be frozen

Iran’s Supreme National Security Council ordered the Central Bank and a number of ministries to withdraw their hard currency deposits from European banks, except Switzerland, and transfer them to banks in Singapore, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Malaysia.

.

[edit on 20-1-2006 by Riwka]

yup, according to your source that represents one quarter of their net worth, and they are moving the money because the fear the western nations will freeze their assets because of the nuclear issue. you have to have money if you plan to bring about the end of the world.