Billy Meier called the New Nostradamus!?!?

Originally posted by MANNYP4
Derekcbart you have posted very insteresting information before. As an investigator of the case you must have much more materials to examine, perhaps many pictures from the case that we may have not yet seen. Is there a possibility you can post them all here (even if they are not new and current) just to better understand your point of view on individual photos and learn more about the interesting work you do in this area.
1,200 photos I think there were more and we always see the same ones on the net. (someone out there must have more or possibly different ones that they can post here).

While it is claimed that Meier took around 1200 photographes in total and maybe he did, that ammount is not availible for viewing or research. Some pictures were stolen from him or misplaced, not returned etc. A couple of years ago I also learned that Meier's contacts allegedly took back around 3-400 photographes because they were inadequate for some reason.
Simply put, the 1200 are not availible. I think if you really search the net you'll find around 150, maybe. There could be more in one of his books.

Originally posted by TerraX
A couple of years ago I also learned that Meier's contacts allegedly took back around 3-400 photographes because they were inadequate for some reason.
Simply put, the 1200 are not availible. I think if you really search the net you'll find around 150, maybe. There could be more in one of his books.

Are you kidding me? He actually said this?

Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by TerraX
A couple of years ago I also learned that Meier's contacts allegedly took back around 3-400 photographes because they were inadequate for some reason.
Simply put, the 1200 are not availible. I think if you really search the net you'll find around 150, maybe. There could be more in one of his books.

Are you kidding me? He actually said this?

I got this information from a moderator of the FIGU board, that was 3-4 years ago. I could look it up but it will take some searching.

No, no I believe ya, what I dont believe is that someone would use SUCH a lame excuse as that for missing negs and photos.

Does no one in the ranks ever pull out after something like that? Has anyone ever left the compound in disgust?

Originally posted by jritzmann
No, no I believe ya, what I dont believe is that someone would use SUCH a lame excuse as that for missing negs and photos.
Does no one in the ranks ever pull out after something like that? Has anyone ever left the compound in disgust?

Yes, I know of one particular case when a former member of Meier's group left and even pressed charges. Information concerning this is pretty scarce but is present in second hand accounts. A former member by the name of Hans Schutzbach (if I'm not mistaken) confirmed some of Meier's claims but also stated some highly inflammatory matters which he was privy to. I can't vouch for the accuracy of his report, but some sources say that Schutzbach claimed that he had to take Meier's meditation practices in the cellar of the FIGU compound while lying naked under a large copper pyramid.
Once again, I don't have enough information at my disposal to confirm Schutzbach's story but I suspect a lawsuit actually took place between Meier's group and the former member. I don't know the outcome, and I've seen virtually no comments from Meier's group except one vague brief comment in Meier's contact notes.

Interesting. I wonder if there's any way to find out more.

Another thing, what ever happened with Kal Korff? I had his book and talked to him by phone more then a few times. I left the UFO thing behind for some years, to come back to it now and find him living out of this country...I see him referred to as being caught in something, but I havent heard what.

MannyP4, I downloaded a bunch of files stored in the Plejarens Are Real Yahoo Group a couple of years ago. I didn't even know that Yahoo Groups allowed uploading of files. I only found out when one of the members suggested that they remove some of the files due to their questionable nature and that the files might be able to be used against them. After reading that I immediately downloaded everything I could find. There were several pictures and text files that are very interesting. I might reference them in an upcoming report, but I am concerned about the legality of re-posting them on the IIG site so I will not be doing that. However, the Yahoo Group is publicly available and if you join the group I'm sure that most of the items will still be there.

As has been mentioned previously, there are no original photographs to examine and I have never seen more than 100 of the supposed 1,200 photos taken.

AHH I was hoping you or anyone else starting posting all photos here again so we can see them or any of the videos we haven't seen yet. The yahoo group forum format is not that great and here we have smarter people for discussion it seems.

Anyway, I think I read somewhere that the aliens will not come back for about 700 years. Now with that in mind why wouldn't they leave a more valuable conclusive proof?. Not that anyone from this era will be alive in the next 200 years yet 700. So what was the point of not leaving a 100% proof? At least when they left, how would it matter I ask?

Originally posted by MANNYP4

...Anyway, I think I read somewhere that the aliens will not come back for about 700 years. Now with that in mind why wouldn't they leave a more valuable conclusive proof?. Not that anyone from this era will be alive in the next 200 years yet 700. So what was the point of not leaving a 100% proof? At least when they left, how would it matter I ask?

Manny, check this out from the speakers list for the upcoming International UFO Congress in Laughlin, NV:

"THE BILLY MEIER CASE:
WENDELLE STEVENS, MICHAEL HORN & CHRISTIAN FREHNER (Switzerland)
A brief reprise of the "Billy" Meier contacts in Switzerland, STILL GOING ON, and an update on what is happening now, with a presentation of new photographs of the "BEAMSHIPS" taken by a number of other photographers in Meier's group now. The make-up of the new Contact Team will be described by Christian Frehner, now being prepared by Billy Meier for this presentation."

WOW!!! that sound interesting, lets see what they will present this time and what new controversy will come with it.

If the contacts are still on, why can he just ask them for something simple that will clarify everything? like for example even a little piece of the toilet paper they use will do (will that alter humans in any way?).

Like I said before, 700 years till they come back, a 100% proof will make us just investigate the case more seriously, nothing more.

I found a video showing a lot of meiers videos but it's in japanese:
www.areadownload.com...
someone posted this site in another thread and this site has a lot UFO materials.

where JR and all of the others knowledgeable people go?
Im missing reading their opinions!!

Originally posted by MANNYP4
WOW!!! that sound interesting, lets see what they will present this time and what new controversy will come with it...

Yes, I think ATS should definitely follow up with a new thread. Here's the schedule, more specifically. You will see that the Meier case is the first presentation of the conference:

SUNDAY - FEBRUARY 26
Registration: 1:00 - 8:00 PM
Exhibitor Set Up: 7:00 am - 1:00 PM
Exhibits Open: 1:00 - 7:00 PM
6:00 - 6:15 PM -CONFERENCE WELCOME AND ANNOUNCEMENTS
6:15 - 9:15 PM - THE MEIER CASE: MICHAEL HORN will display the real extent of the photo analysis actually given the Meier photos by the best experts we have. Over $60,000 was spent to improve old techniques with newly emerging computer sciences, and the developing of new techniques we were previously unaware of. WENDELLE STEVENS will describe Meier's eyewitnessing of the murder of Pope Paul VI by insiders in the Vatican. He watched him leave and went to pick him up when he returned from that event. He will also describe Meier's observation of the murder or President Sadat of Egypt, by his own troops in a military review, when he was also picked up in time to watch the drama live on viewing screens aboard the Pleiadian ship. CHRISTIAN FREHNER (Switzerland) from the Silver Star Center, will describe the nature of the contacts with Billy today, and the new larger contact team prepared by the Pleiadians for extended profound new contacts. He will bring examples of the newer contacts in the form of the new Blocs published by Billy with all external confirmations.

Good, good information in that post vogelfire thanks a lot.

So his followers just going to be talking about what he wrote is true for them or actually going to present some evidence that proof his time travel was true this time? I hope the new evidence they say they have can be back it up with convincing accuracy this time.

JR., I hope you get the free time you need to finish the project soon!!!

The waiting is killing us of desperation. I hope Im not the only one.

Michael Horn has "posted" a reply to my post here in his They Fly Newsletter. His response is what one would expect from him. It is quite lengthy, engages in circular logic, continues his pattern of copying and pasting previously written material, and tries to appear to address the issues without actually addressing the issues. However, the level of ad-hominem attacks is at the lowest level I have seen from him in quite some time.

Rather than copying it all here you can go read it at this link:
www.theyfly.com...

After his response to my post he mentions the discrepancies between Meier's "Paris Is Burning" prophecy and the actual events. The "logic" is quite interesting.

Zep Tepi:

In case you missed it, Michael Horn does finally address some of your remarks in his newsletter. I believe paragraph two refers to you.

"Prophecies:

Just a reminder that prophecies can be changed, up to a point. They are markers that foretell certain outcomes, based on the laws of cause and effect, should humanity not make course corrections in time. Such things as the deaths of four heads of state that would precede by two years the start of a third world war (See: July Newsletter, Contact 251) may not occur if enough hard work by concerned people is done.

Of course, some people seem to need every last horrible thing to be fulfilled to understand the point. Just look at the actual damage referred to by someone on an internet forum who actually complained that the burning of 8,973 vehicles, the 2,888 arrests, 1 murder, and the 126 police injured over a 20-day period wasn’t close enough to Meier’s information from Meier (from 1981 and 1987) regarding the arson and riots in Paris, in which he specifically, and accurately, foretold that it would be caused largely by Islamic inhabitants.

Certainly, and thankfully, Paris wasn’t burned to the ground and maybe the actions of all the concerned parties are helping to prevent such an event from occurring. Should it actually occur, then perhaps the skeptic would be more satisfied – but at such a high price. Likewise, there haven’t been massacres in Italy and it’s hoped that none occur and that the winter Olympics come off without a hitch. If people’s vigilance and intentions are such as to reduce the likelihood of the fulfillment of the darkest prophecies then it will be a success for humanity, whether they ever read the actual prophecies or not."

You're such a complainer about these questionable prophecies!


[edit on 23-1-2006 by vogelfire]

Geez now Mr. Horn says prophecies can be changed. Man that guy is the definition of circuitous logic

Well, I think Michael is now saying that Billy did accurately foresee some problems in Paris, which were largely caused by Islamic inhabitants. A much, much lesser claim than Paris will burn to the ground! Perhaps Billy's prophecies should be less grandiose in order to be believable. But once again, Michael offers another reason to excuse Billy from any wrongdoing. As I'm sure some of you are seeing by now, the case is replete with "excuses."

In any case, here's what Michael says to his supporters on another forum:

"Hi everyone,

My January - February Newsletter is now online. It contains a rebuttal
to a recent attempt at debunking by our old friends at CFI West/IIG.

Enjoy,

MH"

I didn't think Derek's statement was written in debunking language at all but rather was a fair and objective commentary. If he were debunking, he would use ad hominem attacks and tell Michael or Billy things like they are "idiots, crazy, worthless bottom feeders, frauds, charlatans, liars, schizophrenics, unable to THINK!!! and too lazy to do the necessary HOMEWORK!!" (At the very least!)
To the contrary, Derek sets a clear diplomatic tone when he challenges all people against labeling the Meier case (or any case, for that matter) a hoax. From there, he is objective and straightforward. I thought his writing was comendable.

[edit on 24-1-2006 by vogelfire]

[edit on 24-1-2006 by vogelfire]

Originally posted by vogelfire
Well, I think Michael is now saying that Billy did accurately foresee some problems in Paris, which were largely caused by Islamic inhabitants. A much, much lesser claim than Paris will burn to the ground! Perhaps Billy's prophecies should be less grandiose in order to be believable. But once again, Michael offers another reason to excuse Billy from any wrongdoing. As I'm sure some of you are seeing by now, the case is replete with "excuses."

In any case, here's what Michael says to his supporters on another forum:

"Hi everyone,

My January - February Newsletter is now online. It contains a rebuttal
to a recent attempt at debunking by our old friends at CFI West/IIG.

Enjoy,

MH"

I didn't think Derek's statement was written in debunking language at all but rather was a fair and objective commentary. If he were debunking, he would use ad hominem attacks and tell Michael or Billy things like they were "idiots, crazy, worthless bottom feeders, frauds, charlatans, liars, schizophrenics, unable to THINK!!! and too lazy to do the necessary HOMEWORK!!" (At the very least!)

[edit on 24-1-2006 by vogelfire]

Hi Vogelfire,

It's a classic case of seeing what you want to see. The Paris riots were a shocking world event but don't seem to have a relation to a prelude of WW3 as displayed in the Henoch Prophecies. Mr Horn of course doesn't show in what context the Paris riots were written within the Henoch Prophecies since in the same paragraphes it is mentioned that civil war would break out in a number of countries. That didn't happen and no emphasis is put on that particular aspect. Rather the opposite, "be glad the Paris riots are a warning and lets heed Meier's advice". Could Mr Horn be a "man off the cloth"?

[edit on 24-1-2006 by TerraX]

Vogelfire, thank you for your comments. I, and the IIG, endeavor to be the "polite" skeptics. We understand the frustration that some believers have towards skeptics, but we try to not have it intrude into our investigations. We simply want to examine the evidence of any claim.

I just received an email from Michael Horn that was addressed to TerraX. I'm not entirely sure why I was cc'd and I do not want to post it here without permission from TerraX, but he makes some rather odd statements that do not make sense to me about some sort of legal procedings directed at members of ATS. TerraX, can you provide clarification on this issue?

He does make this one statement that I feel I can post here:
"They also know that prophecies are PROBABLE events, not written in stone, that are meant to wake people up so that they will change things and AVOID the fulfillment of the prophecies, while predictions are said to be UNAVOIDABLE outcomes, all in accordance with the laws of cause and effect."

However, if you check out the Merriam-Webster Dictionary (www.m-w.com...) you will see that prophecy is defined as "a prediction of something to come". Michael's semantic claim between prophecy and prediction is therefore not valid.

Derek and Centrist,

I think I can clarify what "legal" stuff MH is talking about. On another forum (PAR), he posts:

"And as for my reputation as a truth-seeker preceding me, I'm glad that
it does, though I'm not so sure that the person on the ATS forum, and
the huge law firm that he works for, are since they are now being
investigated by the Virginia State Bar for his (documented, written)
slander and threats of reprisal against me."

This statement clearly seems to be directed at Centrist, although I could be wrong about that. If I'm correct, I hope Centrist will address Michael's claim of this alleged investigation!

Originally posted by MANNYP4
JR., I hope you get the free time you need to finish the project soon!!!

The waiting is killing us of desperation. I hope Im not the only one.

Sorry for making ya wait boss, right now I'm waiting for my camera to be returned from a buddy who borrowed it, supposed to drop it off tomorrow. I'd do digital, but we know we're gonna need those negatives.