Billy Meier called the New Nostradamus!?!?

Hello Derek,

Let me just comment on a couple items.

Originally posted by derekcbart
...I am telling you that the object in the picture is a small object held by a fishing line. See if you can find the fishing line. I do not believe that you will no matter what tests you run the photos through. Now, using the assumption that Horn and others use when discussing the Meier photographs, if you cannot see the thread it must therefore not be a small object and must therefore be an extraterrestrial spacecraft. It is these leaps of logic that cause so much to be misinterpreted regarding the Billy Meier case....

I don't know of Michael Horn ever having claimed that a support thread or fish-line leader supporting a model UFO should be expected to show up in a photo. Many years ago Bill Moore showed somewhere (don't ask me where!) that it needn't .

More from Derek:
A brief discussion about the prophecies of Billy Meier.

The primary discussions about Billy Meier today concern his "prophecies" he claims are told to him from the Plejarans. As Ike42 has detailed, the information that Meier predicted had in fact been published prior to Meier's publishing.

Michael's research on this, at least in one case, seems not to bear this out. Regarding Meier's potential advance knowledge of Jupiter's ring of ionized sulfur,

From Michael Horn's files
from:

adsabs.harvard.edu...)
"Images of the ring of singly ionized sulfur encircling Jupiter, obtained on two successive nights in April 1979, show that the ring characteristics may change dramatically in about 24 hr."

Here's Meier's quote [from his Contact Report #115 dated Oct. 19th, 1978]:

"Now I am still wondering, if regarding the volcanic action on the moon Io, I remember correctly. If I am right, then you explained that the volcanic eruptions there would occur with primordial power and resemble monstrous explosions, which would thrust up their ejected material like atomic mushrooms, whereby sometimes heights would be reached up to 180 kilometer. Principally, it involves dust particles, gasses, ashes and some magma, but which would reach ejection velocities up to 2,300 kilometer per hour and beyond, as due to the lack of atmosphere of the moon, only minute resistance power is present. But you also said that the largest portion of all ejected material again falls back on the moon, as I already mentioned before. The rest, you explained, would be pushed out into space, while a part of it is drawn by Jupiter and very slowly densifies in its ring to a heavy sulphur-ion-combination. Is that correct?"

Please also note that while Meier published this in October 1978, Stevens already put his March 9, 1979 date on having the document and then having the other two men read and sign off on it. So it appears that Ike was indeed wrong...unless you want to start creating far reaching conspiracies involving Stevens , the two other men - and someone being VERY psychic to even concern themselves with the potential importance of fine details of Meier's info - decades in advance.

Voyager 1 apparently photographed the key features on or after March 5, 1978. I don't know when the information was first published scientifically. I recall that discussions on this occurred on another list, with the key point being that it can't be proven beyond doubt that Meier didn't backdate his Contact Report and Stevens similarly. So it tends to boil down to their honesty, for which it helps to have known both men personally. But I realize that's not the kind of evidence or information you deal with.

Originally posted by Mindsite
I can't say he's fake for sure, some of his predictions if true where quite remarkable. but it really doesn't make sense and seems like an illaborate attempt to become a cult member, or spectacle for money.

I'm still convinced he's deffinitly fake. I beleive most stuff too when it comes to abductions and ufo vids.

I want to say one thing in regards to all the "cult" claims. Meier encourages no one to follow him, he only asks that people try to live their lives by the laws of Creation. Such as--do not speak an untruth and do not kill in depravity. Meier also teaches that we should live in peace and only use force for self-defense when our life is in danger.

What a terrible message this man is spreading!!!! He must be stopped! LOL.

But unlike Christianity, Meier does not give threats of hell or eternal punishment if these laws are not obeyed. He only warns that there will be negative consequences ultimately, in the physical world if people commit violence against each other and deceive and ignore the rights of other people. He also says no aliens or gods will come from heaven or any other place to save people from their wrong choices. Each of us is solely responsible for the decisions we make in this life. Meier cannot bless, or absolve, or "pardon" anyone of any alleged sins or transgressions--nor can any other human being.

For everyone with the "cult" claims--I hope you all also say that Christianity and the other religions are cults... If any of you skeptics are Christians, I would certainly like to hear you explain the inconsistencies of the Bible.

Originally posted by Iseekthetruth
I want to say one thing in regards to all the "cult" claims. Meier encourages no one to follow him, he only asks that people try to live their lives by the laws of Creation. Such as--do not speak an untruth and do not kill in depravity. Meier also teaches that we should live in peace and only use force for self-defense when our life is in danger.

There's a little more to "Meierism" than that. It also involves a belief that Billy Meier is a true contactee and the only true prophet of the New Age. It also involves ridicule of all other contact cases and all major religions, especially Christianity, claiming that these are "false teachings" and that "Meierism" has not only the truth, but the "true truth".It also involves praise for ad hominem attacks on people outside of its immediate circle but demands total, unswerving loyalty and diplomacy among its members. Otherwise, members are banned from the group. It involves an unorthodox belief system that is strictly adhered to by a very small number of people. I believe that's why it is considered a "cult."

As for inconsistencies in Christianity or any other religion, I believe you will find a number of inconsistencies in the Meier case as well.

I have found it interesting that Meierites seem to be very sensitive to the word "cult" and fiercely object to being labeled that.

Originally posted by vogelfire

I have found it interesting that Meierites seem to be very sensitive to the word "cult" and fiercely object to being labeled that.

Funny, I don't know of any human being who doesn't object to being called a "cultist"

I don't know of any Christian who would like being called a member of a cult, but that is precisely what Christianity is.

Originally posted by vogelfire
It involves an unorthodox belief system that is strictly adhered to by a very small number of people. I believe that's why it is considered a "cult."

This is a good example of an irrational thinking pattern. First of all, the concern should be with the truth, and nothing else. Therefore, calling something unorthodox is irrelevant. For the people who first said "The world is round, not flat"--their belief was "unorthodox" because the vast majority held that the world was flat.

As to your emphasis on a "very small number of people"--again we can use the example above. Since the vast majority of humanity at one time believed the world was flat, did that make it true? If the majority of people decide tomorrow that they want to legalize murder, should we agree with the majority in order not to appear too "unorthodox"?

The vast majority of people can believe things that are entirely false. Majority support = truth has been proven to be false many times throughout history.




[edit on 15-1-2006 by Iseekthetruth]

Originally posted by vogelfire
It also involves praise for ad hominem attacks on people outside of its immediate circle

Can you please produce and present your evidence to support this claim?


[edit on 15-1-2006 by Iseekthetruth]

Originally posted by vogelfire
There's a little more to "Meierism" than that. It also involves a belief that Billy Meier is a true contactee and the only true prophet of the New Age.

Well, you've definitely said something that isn't true here, because in the material that I read, the Plejarens specifically warn against beliefs and only promote the acquisition of true knowledge. So, they nor Meier, that I know of, have ever said "believe in me/us" or "believe" in anything for that matter.

And I haven't read anything specifically by Meier saying people must acknowledge him as a true prophet. He simply gives information and people can accept it or reject it. I've read nothing by Meier where he is specifically seeking to acquire "followers" and people must follow him to be "saved".

Iseekthetruth

I will stand by my remarks above and by the dictionary definition I have essentially provided. Beyond that, I think I should simply agree to disagree with you lest we go around in another circular argument here.

I don't know what reading you have done or to what extent you are familiar with the Meier-related forums, which are replete with examples you request. I refer you to the official FIGU forum and the Yahoo group Plejarens are Real for starters. You can find them easily by doing a Google search.

Here's what I consider a "belief" rather than "an acquisition of truth" as posted by one of the list owners of the forums above:

"DO YOU HOMEWORK YOU SKEPTICS OUT THERE!!!!!
GO STUDY THE CASE DEEPLY TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE WRONG WHEN TRYING TO
DEBUNK HERR BILLY MEIER, THE ONLY AND TRUE PROPHET OF NEW AGE!!!!!YOU ALL WILL BELIEVE HIM WHEN THE HOT HELL OF ATOMIC FIRE WILL BE KNOCKING
ON YOUR DOORS!!!"

(It also has a fundamentalist hell, fire, and brimstone ring to it, don't you think?)



[edit on 15-1-2006 by vogelfire]

Originally posted by vogelfire
Iseekthetruth

"DO YOU HOMEWORK YOU SKEPTICS OUT THERE!!!!!
GO STUDY THE CASE DEEPLY TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE WRONG WHEN TRYING TO
DEBUNK HERR BILLY MEIER, THE ONLY AND TRUE PROPHET OF NEW AGE!!!!!YOU ALL WILL BELIEVE HIM WHEN THE HOT HELL OF ATOMIC FIRE WILL BE KNOCKING
ON YOUR DOORS!!!"

(It also has a fundamentalist hell, fire, and brimstone ring to it, don't you think?)

This statement above is of course going over the line, and the person needs to get a grip, but to claim that Meier can control the outbursts of anyone reading his material is crazy. And you can literally find something quirky about someone involved in virtually any group. This proves nothing. I would advise anyone to study it and make their own conclusions.

And the Atomic war will not be the end of life on earth anyway. Even if the World War 3 prophecies come true, Meier was given further prophecies and predictions of what happens to humanity on earth after this event.

Originally posted by Iseekthetruth

Originally posted by vogelfire
Iseekthetruth

"DO YOU HOMEWORK YOU SKEPTICS OUT THERE!!!!!
GO STUDY THE CASE DEEPLY TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE WRONG WHEN TRYING TO
DEBUNK HERR BILLY MEIER, THE ONLY AND TRUE PROPHET OF NEW AGE!!!!!YOU ALL WILL BELIEVE HIM WHEN THE HOT HELL OF ATOMIC FIRE WILL BE KNOCKING
ON YOUR DOORS!!!"

(It also has a fundamentalist hell, fire, and brimstone ring to it, don't you think?)

This statement above is of course going over the line, and the person needs to get a grip, but to claim that Meier can control the outbursts of anyone reading his material is crazy. And you can literally find something quirky about someone involved in virtually any group. This proves nothing. I would advise anyone to study it and make their own conclusions.

And the Atomic war will not be the end of life on earth anyway. Even if the World War 3 prophecies come true, Meier was given further prophecies and predictions of what happens to humanity on earth after this event.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Meier can control the outbursts of anyone reading his material. Obviously he cannot, or the vocal skeptic camp would probably have been silenced long ago. And, you see, many have studied the material and have come to the conclusion to buy it hook, line and sinker while others refuse to buy any of it.

Originally posted by jritzmann
Lets get a video posted this weekend. Then we'll see.

I want to try and finish the cakeship this weekend too. I'm going out sunday to hunt a good railroad tree.

Until then, no one is going to understand a damned thing anyone else is trying to say. Pictures are always worth a thousand words.

How's your project coming along, Jeff? I think a lot of us are really curious to see what you come up with!

Didnt have as much time as I thought I would this weekend. Worked a bit on it yesterday afternoon, but I'm so damned worn out with staying up late all week, I just got fuzzy and went to sleep. Should be done this week tho. It is lookin pretty good.

As posted on "Plejarens are Real" Yahoogroup (a publicly viewable forum)

--------------------------
From: Michael
Date: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:10 am
Subject: More nonsense michaelhorn812


rense.com...

------------------------------------------------

The article referred to as "nonsense", regards a biblical maniscript found in the 1970's...an actual physical document dating from the 4th century. One that can physically be examined.

It's "nonsense" to Meier supporters because they believe the "TALMUD OF JMMANUEL", which is a document said to be co-founded by...you guessed it, Billy Meier.

Funny thing is...there is NO supportive manuscript or artifact. Yet, a documented manuscript dating from the 4th century is "nonsense".

Never ceases to amaze.

Thats a good one JR. I think MH actually was asked something similar here but I'd have to go back thru the thread.
Hope you dont mind I have the Horn circus poster on my screen saver.
Bring on th e models.

Everybody is waiting for JR's photos (possible videos too?).

Are there new meiers ufo photos that we haven't seen as we always seem to see the same ones around the net. Maybe new ones of the "wedding cake one", we want to see the "laser gun" ones too.

Is there a single picture that doesn't show the ufo like a camera trick?
I mean one single photo that when someone sees it they can be like "wow"!! instead of showing something that looks out of focus.

I haven't found anything new. Maybe the Plejarens gave up on Meier cause he wasn't producing the expected results.

Originally posted by jritzmann
As posted on "Plejarens are Real" Yahoogroup (a publicly viewable forum)

--------------------------
From: Michael
Date: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:10 am
Subject: More nonsense michaelhorn812


rense.com...

------------------------------------------------

The article referred to as "nonsense", regards a biblical maniscript found in the 1970's...an actual physical document dating from the 4th century. One that can physically be examined.

It's "nonsense" to Meier supporters because they believe the "TALMUD OF JMMANUEL", which is a document said to be co-founded by...you guessed it, Billy Meier.

Funny thing is...there is NO supportive manuscript or artifact. Yet, a documented manuscript dating from the 4th century is "nonsense".

Never ceases to amaze.

Yep, it's amazing. Setting the standard where it suits them because Billy Meier can't be wrong.

Originally posted by MANNYP4
Everybody is waiting for JR's photos (possible videos too?).

Yeah I know. The model's done, I gotta match the paint, and get my logistics for attaching the tether setup. Then I need a good waether day, even overcast.

Hi there.

I just wanted to mention something about the IIG photos. It has been mentioned that Jeff Ritzmann's are much better replicas of the Meier photos than the IIG photos, and that is absolutely correct. The IIG photos were originally created for an entirely different project that we were planning that never came to fruition. Once the whole Michael Horn situation began we decided to save time and use these photos rather than take the time to create a duplicate model of the Meier Beamships and then take new photographs.

I just wanted to clarify that.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Jeff is creating.

Derekcbart you have posted very insteresting information before. As an investigator of the case you must have much more materials to examine,
perhaps many pictures from the case that we may have not yet seen. Is there a possibility you can post them all here (even if they are not new and
current) just to better understand your point of view on individual photos and learn more about the interesting work you do in this area.

1,200 photos I think there were more and we always see the same ones on the net. (someone out there must have more or possibly different ones that they can post here).

I really enjoyed reading your informative post and hope you continue to post more frequently.