Have I Disturbed Some One? (Revisited)

That's got me thinking again, about how far one could one potentially be influenced by a spirit (if this is possible); like could it make a person commit suicide or kill for example...but then something else struck me......this will sound completely bonkers I know but here goes:

This 'ghost' seems to be associated with one location, your house; so I got to wondering how it could possibly influence your mum if she wasn't in your house soon beforehand (I'm assuming here that she left from her house, called into the antique shop, and then visited you).

Ok - now for the mad bit.

What if the ghost, as well as mostly being displaced from our reality, was also mostly displaced from time as well, meaning it could move around in time to some degree? This would mean it could've 'seen' that your mother had called and followed her back in time to the antique store to influence her purchase of the fork.


Absolutely crazy, but if the spirit was able to move in time it would also explain how Springer's wallet got to where it was; and also how the spoon got there.

Any way to find out if the spoon really is 100 years old or has in some way been transported forwards?

By the way - I work as a scientist, and realise how many fundamental laws this flouts; but in my defence this whole manifestation seems to break quite a few itself!!

Originally posted by Poon



By the way - I work as a scientist, and realise how many fundamental laws this flouts; but in my defence this whole manifestation seems to break quite a few itself!!

Very interesting and thought-provoking ideas there, poon. It is not the first time that temporal issues have been brought up in this thread (as you know). I am curious, what do you think about the idea of the spoon having been in an "non-oxygen containing environment" for however long it has been separated from the fork? Very interested in your thoughts on this part. It has my mind wandering all over the place!

A couple of quick pragmatic thoughts first:

I don't know for sure the chemical composition of the patina that silver acquires, but copper patina is mainly copper carbonate rather than copper oxide, so it would be an air-free environment (knit picking I know!!).

Secondly, google tells me the patina is also exacerbated by handling the silver - the oils in your skin react with it - so where ever the spoon was it was also (relatively) untouched.

As to where it was -- some sort of air tight container? Buried somewhere in something watertight? Just out in the open but has recently been expertly cleaned?

Of course, if it was a temporal shift, would it have existed anywhere in between times, or would it have been in your house circa 1900 as a new-ish piece, then zapp! appeared here in 2007?

It's late here, so I have to go, but I will most certainly think about this at work tomorrow!

Well, I referred to it as "patina" but it is mainly called "tarnish" for silver. And that reaction is oxygen dependent (it's silver oxide).

The theory of the temporal shift of the item and therefore it not being exposed to oxygen plus time is interesting.

hmmm, so many possibilities.

On another note...I read back through the last few pages of the thread this morning and noticed that in December a couple of members, including mrsdudara posted some very interesting posts that I missed in my absence (and then the loss of the thread). I would like to comment on mrs post:

It is interesting that you are able to describe the old computer room so well. Until we started redoing the roof and had to move all the contents of the attic down to that room, that is where my computer was. Now it is full of boxes of stuff waiting for the day we can haul them back to the attic. That is the same room the built-in bookshelves are in that the Harry Potter book flew off the shelves. It is also interesting that you feel we need to look "deep" into that room. We will be tearing out a partition wall downstairs which will allow us access to the floorspace below that room. We will most likely do that in the coming year. We have already torn some of the built-in shelving out of the room in preparation to rebuild the walls and relocate the upstairs bathroom. The only thing found so far was an old matchbook, but when we tear the shelves down that the book flew off of I will pay close attention to whether there is anything behind/under that shelving.


[edit on 10-15-2007 by Valhall]

Hey Val,

still doing my research but I was asked to find out from you if you have any trees on the property that dates back to when the house was built?

also if the original owners or settlers in the area had Dutch ancestry?

oh and have you had any dreams in which you were "living in your house in the past"

thanks

I hope mrsdudara stops by. mrsdudara, look at this post made by IAP in November 2003 - the "library" he refers to is my old computer room, the one you are seeing. O_O

Originally posted by ImAlreadyPsycho
The current library then, is where the wife was pushed from the window. This is why I asked because when you posted that, I had flashes again from what we spoke of before, and the library portion of the drawing actually turned red breifly. Quite intruiging.

I am definitely keeping up on this Val. But if you do need to U2U me, definitely do not hesitate.

Blessed Be

Whitewolf

Originally posted by worldwatcher
Hey Val,

still doing my research but I was asked to find out from you if you have any trees on the property that dates back to when the house was built?

also if the original owners or settlers in the area had Dutch ancestry?

oh and have you had any dreams in which you were "living in your house in the past"

thanks

Yes! We have trees here that were here when the house was built and we know that for sure because they show up in the 1904 picture and are fairly mature in that photo.

Don't know about the Dutch ancestry.

No, I have not ever dreamed of living in this house in the past.

I can't wait to learn why you're asking these questions - they are very interesting!

I am very glad I have taken the time to start from the beginning of this thread and re-read members' inputs. I need to share something very startling that I have found.

This post from elderban in November 2003 concerning the audio I recorded in the house. He had taken that audio and manipulated the speed and this is what he had to say about it:

Originally posted by elderban
Ok...here's what I'm hearing in the wav file:

Initial sounds of unit being set up.

Activation 1:
Two small thumps, and the sound of something moving -as if off in the distance, then audio stops.

Activiation 2:
Slight intereference of some kind, possibly electrical.

Activaiton 3:
There's a BARELY audible voice if you listen carefully. Sounds like someone calling out "Henry" or something. Sounds as if it is coming from an elderly lady.

Activation 4:
Thunderstorm.

Activation 5:
Squeak sound.

Activation 6:
Loud "SNAP"

No more sounds after that.

Still working on that squeak though.

Okay, here is the startling part...

Activaiton 3:
There's a BARELY audible voice if you listen carefully. Sounds like someone calling out "Henry" or something. Sounds as if it is coming from an elderly lady.

Here is where DeusEx states he also hears this:

Originally posted by DeusEx
I heard "henry" too, Valhall. But sounds like the voice is cut off mid sentence, as if he/she/it (too much distortion to tell) were trying to say something to "henry" and something happened. It could be technical error.

I don't know....could be anger (muttering the name of an attacker and then the snap she vents her frustration)

An attempt at communication (cut off by either malfunction...or maybe another ghost)

Or maybe lament. I can't wait for the next recording.

DE

There has never been any head of household (or even son as far as I know) in this house with the name Henry. Nor has there been a family with the last name of Henry.

But the maiden name of the step-mother of the antique dealer from whom my mother bought the fork was Henry!

O_O

[edit on 10-15-2007 by Valhall]

Have you thought seriously about getting a medium in to cleanse the house, move the energy on?

This is the first time I have read the thread and there was one thing that came to mind. A while ago, I went to drop some wine off to a friend at work. She worked in a fabulous old building that had been turned into an
optometrists. Anyway, her boss was keen to discuss the wine when he saw it.

We were talking about good wine and he told me there was a cellar under the building. I followed him cos he wanted to show me his collection. He turned the light on and hesitated at the top of the stairs. He was very nervous and made a joke that there was something down there and noone liked going down in the cellar. He puffed up I guess and we walked down. Yanno when someone is putting on the brave act? Like that.

I get down there and he is very uneasy. He wanted to get out after a very short time. I said, no just wait a minute and I had a look around. I went to every corner of the cellar and clapped several times very loudly to disturb the energy. I then stood by the main wall. I felt drawn to it. I felt the presence of a little girl and felt this terrible confusion/sadness. I said to him. There is a little girl trapped in this wall. She died in this cellar.

We went back up stairs and he was quite wide eyed and said that the Butcher's daughter had gone missing. No one knew what happened to her but people used to talk about it. This was long before refrigeration as they used rooms underground to keep the meat cool so I guess it would have happened 100 years or so ago.

It was very sad but her energy was trapped in the wall. So perhaps when you started renovating, you did disturb it.

The 'you should have told me before' and crying, even though it is in your voice is something from the past. Something that happened in the house long ago.

There is some good cleansing rituals you could try. Sage is good but it is surface, it doesn't do walls.

But, see, I have no reason to want to cleanse them. And I think they may need me. Especially with the recent activity.

Maybe no one has found the wall they are trapped in - or why they are trapped there in the first place. See my point?

Val, it is so good to read your updates. It sounds like things have changed a bit in your home. Perhaps the evil old geezer is gone? The folks there seem happy, and pleased that you have made this house a home again.

What IVP said, does go along whith what I think you will find. I know it may sound silly, but I believe it is ufo related. ~ Which is why I thought you would laugh.~ Anyway, what I think you will find, would explain the red light IVP saw.

Originally posted by Valhall
But, see, I have no reason to want to cleanse them. And I think they may need me. Especially with the recent activity.

Cleansing frees them. Interesting you feel they may need you.

maybe no one has found the wall they are trapped in - or why they are trapped there in the first place. See my point?

I think that is the issue. The energy is trying to communicate with you.

I do believe some ghosts/spirits hang around due to unfinished business or some injustice.

It is interesting that the llittle girl had not moved on and remained in the cellar. No one knew what happened to her. And yet, there she is.
She had died there, who knew why or how, if it was natural causes etc.
But, she wants the people there to know what happened.

Okay Val, still researching but I asked those questions at the request my own "paranormal expert" my granny. I gave her the overview of your experiences in the house culminating with the spoon. Please take all of this with a hefty dose of salt and openmindedness. I can't explain or even understand Granny's process of deducing info but this is what she had to say:


It is male spirit (not the female that me and you may think) that left the spoon for you. He a white male with a heavy accent. Granny called him a dutchman (however upon further questioning, for some odd reason, Granny thinks that all caucasians with an accent are Dutch, I think that has to do with Dutch Colonialists settling in Guyana, so it could be German, Swedish, French etc). Yes she can be a bit racist and has been known to use very colorful terms describing anyone other than an Indian.

Granny feels that spirit(s) are tied to your property, namely a tree, not to the house itself. The Dutchman as she calls him was a heavy drinker in life, his family lived in fear of his drinking spells. When he wasn't drinking, he was a decent man. She said he used to slam doors and stomp through the house when he was drunk, she says the children used to hide..

She says that your little ones shouldn't play near the tree. I tried to get a description of the tree, but all she gave me was " Y " sign with her hands.

Now when it comes to the spoon, Granny isn't as excited about it's appearance as we are. She says she doesn't trust the Dutchman and wouldn't accept a gift from him. She doesn't doubt that it the ghost that is responsible for it's appearance or the influence on your mom to buy it. She doesn't look at it as "gift" but more like a request for an exchange.

She says if you want to keep the spoon, you should place coins, alcohol and some sort of food item at the base of the tree and leave it there as an exchange for the "gift", that way you don't owe the dead anything.

She also says to tell the doctor lady (that's you) you should take care of a blond hair boy. They like him and he shouldn't be left alone to roam the property. They won't hurt him but they follow him? (I never mentioned you had kids or grandkids to her, nor a profession, I don't know how or why she associated you as the doctor lady)

Whether this helps or not i can't say, but at least you got the ramblings of my granny documented on this thread now. I'll get back to you with more later, I've been speaking to "certain" people regarding objects manifesting.


edited to add, Granny can be very enigmatic with her answers, English is not her first language. She never went to school and has no formal education. She learned her ABC's when I did, so I've always taken the liberty of trying to interpret what she tell's me to the best of my knowledge, but there are some terms and words that she uses that I still dont' understand.

[edit on 10-16-2007 by worldwatcher]

Very interesting, ww. Please thank your granny for me!

Okay, I THINK I know what tree she is referring to, but what I want to do is when I get home this evening I will take pics of all the old post oaks on our property and let you show them to granny, because I think it's important to know which tree - since apparently my grandson needs to stay away from it. And I need to leave some money and booze under it - lol!

This sounds like the second owner of the house - the grocer. I'll try to do some research on his heritage...see if he had any accent.

[edit on 10-16-2007 by Valhall]

Hello,
I think this thread is an extraordinary story. I can't even begin to imagine what it is like to live in a house like that. I've been following this story for some time now, since last year or something like that. I'm glade to see it pop back up on the recent post. although, I don't want to seem as if i am saying, i am glade you have activity again. I wish you all the best in your experience.

I really just posted to say I flagged this thread. And I don't understand why it only has/had one flag. maybe because it was created before the flag system. it deserves more flags.

great idea Val

I'll print them and take them over, Granny doesn't like to be bothered by "fancy puters"

I'm curious as to "Why" you think you know which tree it is? Have you had experiences to suggest something might be there? You know that "feeling" stuff? or you just basing this off of her "Y" description.

And yeah I know the whole "offering" thing sounds totally wacky and out there... but old people have strange ways and I think it stems a lot from her Hindu practices of making offerings.

[edit on 10-16-2007 by worldwatcher]

Thanks JSR for your comments. While this thread has become invaluable as a record, I'm glad people enjoy reading my ghosty experiences and I'm glad to get the input of others.

ww - there is a tree in the backyard that looks like it's from the hob-goblin forest of the Wizard of Oz and when you said Y I immediately thought of it. When you see it, you'll understand why it's kind of spooky.

Okay, here is the tree I'm talking about. It's the spooky knotty one almost dead center.

img.photobucket.com...

It can be seen to left rear of the house in the 1904 pic.

img.photobucket.com...

And here it is in the spring of 2003 I believe (not long after I moved in)

img.photobucket.com...

But it looks different now because it got struck by lightning...so I'll upload a new pic along with other pics of trees this evening. Almost all the old trees on our property look weird - they are all twisted as if a tornado came through when they were young and twisted them all to grow in spirals.

gnarly old tree.. it looks spooky in the old pic but not as much in the others.
oh and i'm not going over to granny's till tomorrow, so take your time getting pics of the likely candidates.

After reading the entire thread I can say that I'm probably not going to be very popular here but I do think my opinion is worth something whether popular or not.

It mostly just sounds like a very old house doing what old houses do. I think 99.9% of what has happened is very explainable. From the noises to the wiring it sounds very natural. The book thing, well a book could have fallen off the shelf and landed 2 feet away very easily and when people already are on edge things often look more mysterious than they really are. I also think there's been plenty of time for critters to find their own little entrances into the house. The recordings don't say much of anything other than what people are trying to squeeze out of them. If you're already predisposed of looking or thinking something then it's much easier to rationalize just that. I also think the dogs may be reacting to mice or rats that work the house in certain patterns and at certain times. As for the spoon, someone U2U'd me and said they thought someone may have placed it in the drawer as a little prank and then didn't want to talk after things got too carried away on it. I don't know if this is the case or not but thought I'd just throw it out there.

Now, there are a couple of things that do bother me and those are the two direct view incidents. Springers vision and the child's interaction. Now, I am pretty sure that Springer once told me that he was a Christian and from the way you talk about God it would seem that you have some kind of belief system. However, from other things I read I get mixed signals. Most Christians I know are Bible Christians, some are denominated some are nondenominational but all look to the Bible as the Word of God. Getting psychic readings and reading Harry Potter are not usually things you would see Bible Christians doing. Nor is negotiating with an entity or doing other things you spoke of. The Bible is pretty clear on issues such as these. I don't want to be harsh here or pass any judgment I just would want to see that your home is your own. I'm sure people will call me crazy but your home may be Satan's domain (which is to say that it was his before you guys even got there). Whether you believe that or not is your business but if I were you I wouldn't take any chances and would want God to have charge over the house. Val, even if things seem OK, I would think that you still don't really like it and I get that impression.

If you truly believe something is in your home then I will tell you what my family does when moving into a new home.

To anoint your house or apartment and to protect yourself from Satan and Demonic forces (save this and print it out and use it as you go around anointing): take a drop of oil on your finger (olive, vegetable) and anoint your home in the following way: walk around your home and touch with your finger the doors, windows, dogs, children, yourself, and your spouse (anoint together with your spouse even better) while praying the following:

"Jesus, by faith I anoint me, my spouse, the children, the dogs and this home, windows and doorways and declare them all holy unto you and ask that you would cleanse us and this home of every unclean spirit and human spirit that does not belong here. In the name of Jesus, Satan, I bind you, I bind you hindering spirits, I bind you spirits of the prince of the air, I bind you evil forces, I command you to take your hands off of our spirit soul and body, heart, mind and emotion and material things; off of the children, the dogs and this home. I bind your mouth and your power and command you to be gone forever. Jesus, I pray for the anointing of your blood, the surrounding and protection of Your mighty warrior angels and the overshadowing power and protection of Your Holy Spirit over me, my spouse, the children, the animals and the home, the windows and the doorways and ask that You would protect us from any attack of the enemy whether in spiritual or physical form, in Your name, Jesus, amen."

There is plenty of scripture to back this up if you would like to see it. If you choose to do this cleansing you really must believe in it.

Finally, please don't take offense to anything I've said as I just want to help you here. I do apologize if I have come off wrong to you, my intentions are all good.

God Bless you, family and home.