Europe 2005 is Germany 1930

Originally posted by cargo
I want to see figures which clearly show that the UK's violent crime rate is double that of the US. No BS, just find them.

Thanks.

Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. In May, the British government reported that gun crime in England and Wales nearly doubled in the last four years. Serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29% higher than 1996; robbery was 24% higher; murders 27% higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50% from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the armed robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels. The violent crime rate in England is now double that in the United States.

From June, 2004. Obviously things may have changed since then...But come on - DOUBLE?

If your not convinced by this just google "Violent crime rate of UK".

Perhaps it isn't double anymore, but it is still FAR higher then in the US.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Thomas Crown, I don't know what happened here - just editing..

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Souljah
Now for which "ruler" in Europe can you claim the same or similar comparison to the Nazi Germany? The French president Chirac?

Good links, Souljah. The parallels are more than a bit creepy; they're downright damning.

I doubt folks who support Bush will be willing to look at these similarities, though.

I think TC wrote this in response to the above..

Interesting, ECK, but there is more similarity with Chirac and Hitler, and the similarities go way back. As a matter of fact, France and Germany has a lot in common.

Look around, as the enemy never attacks where you think he is. You just might be looking at a diversion. They sucker punch us all the time. I can't wait to see how either the EEU OR the US progresses in the next few years.

My paranoia meter is pinging, nowadays.

[edit on 22-4-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

I believe the European Union is what the bible (endtime revelations) describes as the revived Roman Empire. There are different schools of thought when it comes to endtime prophecy and many believe our nation is not mentioned in it. Considering the USA is the most powerful nation the world has ever seen, that is remarkable. That, along with many geopolitical factors, lead me to believe that our nation is facing some dark days ahead. Perhaps a massive terror attack or a complete financial collapse (or a combination of things) will hit us so hard, we will no longer be the dominant power we have been. I could see us then, becoming a proxy of the EU. Just some thots on the EU's rising prominence on the world stage..

o yeah the Eastern Europeans gonna let the Frenchies take over their sovereignty.

Originally posted by American Mad ManIf your not convinced by this just google "Violent crime rate of UK".

Perhaps it isn't double anymore, but it is still FAR higher then in the US.

anyone that thinks UK is "less violent", should simply go to a socker game .. find out how non-violent those ppl are. and I shouldnt even be laughing...

[edit on 22-4-2005 by BaastetNoir]

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. In May, the British government reported that gun crime in England and Wales nearly doubled in the last four years. Serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29% higher than 1996; robbery was 24% higher; murders 27% higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50% from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the armed robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels. The violent crime rate in England is now double that in the United States.

From June, 2004. Obviously things may have changed since then...But come on - DOUBLE?

If your not convinced by this just google "Violent crime rate of UK".

Perhaps it isn't double anymore, but it is still FAR higher then in the US.

- It isn't. The methods of recording (and what is recorded) have in large part given us this 'rise'......and much of our gun crime is actually replica guns and not actual firearms.

That is pure US gun lobby propaganda trying to say we should have guns and be better off for it; which just isn't going to appeal to the public or happen here, ever.

Try this

MYTH: The crime rate has been skyrocketing in the UK and Australia since stricter gun control laws were enacted in the 1990's.

TRUTH: The truth is that the UK police has changed its system for recording crime since implementing new gun control laws.
This change in recording crime made it appear that the crime rate went up.
The British Crime Survey, which was unaffected by this change, shows a decrease in crime.
Go to the section under violent crime in the British Crime Survey. "The increase in violent crime recorded by police, in contrast to estimates provided from the BCS, appears to be largely due to increased recording by police forces.
Taking into account recording changes, the real trend in violence against the person in 2001/02 is estimated to have been a reduction of around five percent(see Chapter 3)."(source- PDF file www.homeoffice.gov.uk...) So when you take into account changes in recording crime, there was an actual decrease in the violent crime rate. Since 1997, the overall UK crime rate has fallen by 27%. Burglary has dropped 39%. Vehicle thefts have dropped 32%. Violent crime has declined 26%(source www.policesupers.com...).

www.guninformation.org...

Details from the latest BCS -
www.homeoffice.gov.uk...


This might also help you -

from the US government itself -

: According to police statistics for 1996 --

the U.S. murder rate was 5.7 times higher than England's (0.074 per 1,000 population versus 0.013) (figure 5)
the U.S. rape rate was about 3 times higher than England's (0.71 per 1,000 female population versus 0.22) (figure 6)
the U.S. robbery rate was 1.4 times higher than England's (2.0 versus 1.4) (figure 7)
the English assault rate was 1.1 times higher than the U.S. rate (4.4 versus 3.9) (figure 8)
the English burglary rate was 2.4 times higher than the U.S. rate (22.4 versus 9.4) (figure 9)
the English motor vehicle theft rate was 1.8 times higher than the U.S. rate (9.5 versus 5.3) (figure 10).

www.ojp.usdoj.gov...

OK so the latest comparative graphs and information I could find from the US gov were to 1996 but nevertheless the point is clear; barring the occassional fluctuations US serious crime rates are all significantly hugher than the UK's......and bear in mind that the UK's rates (due IMO to the UK having a society more alike the USA's than continental Europe's) are significantly higher than Europes.






[edit on 22-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

I found this interesting...

www.homeoffice.gov.uk...

......the year ending 31 March 2004, there was:

a 15 per cent reduction in homicides involving firearms

a 13 per cent reduction in robberies involving firearms

Even so, we have seen an unacceptable rise in gun crime over recent years, and are doing everything we can to tackle it.

While homicides and robberies with guns may have been down, the use of guns in commiting a crime still rose....

How and why?

Two years ago in the United Kingdom, civilian handguns were banned, bought back from their owners and destroyed. In the year following the law change, Scotland recorded a 17% drop in all firearm-related offences. The British Home Office reports that in the nine months following the handgun ban, firearm-related offences in England and Wales dropped by 13%.

Link

I don't know, I'm in Ireland which has pretty strict gun controls (at lest i think it does) and gun crime seems to be pretty low, however there has been an (apparent at least) increase in gang land related deaths (drugs and the like). All i can say is that i personally would not feel safe in a country where guns are as previlent as they are in the US.

[edit on 22/4/05 by cmdrpaddy]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
the use of guns in commiting a crime still rose....

How and why?

- Apparantly replica firearms are growing in use.


(thanks to Ace of Bass for the UK Home Office info )

[edit on 22-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Some Facts about USA.

In the year 1894 congressman H.V.Giles said: "We must rule from Ocean to Ocean!". In the year 1900 congressman from Indiana adressed to the US Senat with words like this: "We are the Ruling Race of the World. We will not give up our Gods Work of ruling this Earth. God has selected us as Chosen Ones!" Only from the declaration of Monroe Doctrine 1823 and to the end of 1945 the USA have attacked: Cuba (4 times), Honduras (7 times), Dominican Republic (4 times), Haiti (2 times), Guatemala (one time), Panamo (2 times), Mexico (four times), Columbia (4 times).

USA is a Military State. In the year 2006 the Military Budget will be Record 487 Billion Dollars - for the International help only 10 Billion Dollars, most of which it will go to their Primary Receiver - Isreal.

From Unicef sources, every 2 years More people die from Hunger, than there were people dead in both World Wars! Every Hour 1000 Children die by urable Diseases! And twice as much Preganant Women die from poor medical service and lack of medical equipment. For the Immediate End to this problems it would be enough only 10 % of USA military budget.

But there are also People who need money more then the military in the United States - 10 % of the people, which means 31 million US citizens, dont have enough money for their basic survival needs. They live in poverty and hunger, while 5 % of the Richest Americans own 81,9 % of all the Shares and Stocks and 57.4 % of the entire USA Treasury.

As I remember Nazi Germany had the Same High Military Budget and - most powerful and modern Army that ruled the World.

[edit on 22/4/05 by Souljah]

1. The burning of the Reichstag "unified" Hitler's support using fear and outrage.

2. Many current members of Bushco were in Nixon era supporters of anti-democracy programs such as Cointelpro, supported murders of protesters at Jackson and Kent State, used truly dirty tricks against critics, assasination of leaders foreign and probably domestic, etc.

3. Corporate State is achieved in U.S. 2/3 of broadcast media owned by corporate conglomerates such as Westinghouse and G.E., #1 in U.S. Govmt contracts. GE owns AOL/Time Warner NBC, and Westinghouse owner of Viacom. and partner of BNFL. G>E., Westinhouse make more than appliances, people. Try war machines.

Carlyle buys CSX, worldwide shipping and container business, Haliburton skimming U.S. Treasury with no-bid contracts, mercenary forces being increased loyal to Bushco, ("independent" contractors) Agri-biz friends with Bushco gaining lock on U.S. food production and skimming treasury of huge subsidies intended for small landholders, shadow government set up on several levels including FEMA corporate executive command structures. Plenty more on this point too.

4. Lies, deliberate, about Iraq threat, leading to invasion, "shock and awe" psy-ops directed at U.S. population pre-invasion, yet comparable boo-hooing over dictatorships supported by U.S. not pursued.

5. Suspension of treaties, sowing disinformation about international law (it merely means holding up one's end of a treaty), nullification of Geneva Accords, deliberate use of torture and commission of war crimes, the disintegration and near-abrogation of of NATO allowed by Bush (has he ever even mentioned the word?), the disinformation and mis-spending of political capital including the campaign against the United Nations

6. Suspending the Constitution of the United States (part of it), suspension of the Writ of Habeus Corpus.

7. Criminal election tampering, alliance with convicted felons of Diebold, illicit voter register purges, 2000 brownshirt attacks on recount offices in FLA by out-of-state shock troops. Bribery of elections officials for certain voter machine purchases.

8. Supporters of Bushco include near-crazy mystical blood-thirsty types advocating near-unrestrained murder of non-Christians (Zell Miller), wanting to establish State Religion as in Falwell, Robertson, etc. etc. Hmm, even Hitler didn't use that craziness as well as Bush.

Originally posted by devilwasp
......

devilwasp, you have no idea what the European Union is really about. I'm just astounded by the complete and utter ignorance of you Europeans of what the EU is all about and you all have been spoonfed BS for so many years fawning over the dreams and reality of the EU by the international advocates (read: NWO Elite).

Your future "Constitution of the EU" is over 500 pages long. It is a future Marxist superstate in which all of your rights will be subjected to the union by default.

You're just seeing the golden stars in a deep blue field and never mind the ugly secrets and hidden designs behind it.

[edit on 4/22/2005 by the_oleneo]

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Your future "Constitution of the EU" is over 500 pages long. It is a future Marxist superstate in which all of your rights will be subjected to the union by default.

- No. It is nothing of the sort.

It is not even actually a 'constitution' as such at all (that has simply become a handy shorthand term for what it is).

It is a modernising re-organisation of 50yrs worth of various old EEC/EU treaties between the member states going right back to the days of the coal and steel union of the early 1950s when the 'membership comprised of France, West Germany, Italy, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.
europa.eu.int...

It should be quite obvious to anyone with an open mind on the subject that a community which has grown over 50yrs from 6 original countries to the now 25 (soon to be 27) would need to update and modernise the various treaties agreed between the member sovereign nation states.

You're just seeing the golden stars in a deep blue field and never mind the ugly secrets and hidden designs behind it.

- The EU like all human constructs has had it's problems, it has had episodes of behaviour that are nothing to be proud of and it has made it's share of mistakes, I'll agree that. (......and they're hardly 'secrets either)

But as for ugly secrets and Marxism (any other conspiracy stuff you can cram in to bash it? .....what about something religious, how about some 'conclusive' satanic 'end of days' stuff? ) that is pure opinion and speculative theory unsupported by any facts.

As for the NWO stuff.....whatever. If that stuff rocks your world you carry on......
........but if it does I'd suggest you worry about things much closer to home because if NWO is based in fact there must be a hell of a lot more of it going on in the USA (simply because that is the current axis of greatest power in the world where world events are being moulded).

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- It isn't. The methods of recording (and what is recorded) have in large part given us this 'rise'......and much of our gun crime is actually replica guns and not actual firearms.

First, What do you mean by replica's - toys/fake guns or countrymade weapons. Second, how can it be gun crimes if a real gun was not used , did the assailants club people with these things or what??
Also if this method of recording was not true as you imply then why are they conducting a fake survey? What purpose is there in changing a survey that gives wrong results??
Couldn't it be that the survey is actually true and the UK police doesn't get enough information of whats going on on its streets?

IAF

you have no idea what the European Union is really about. I'm just astounded by the complete and utter ignorance of you Europeans of what the EU is all about

Do you have any idea about how/why the european union was formed?
Jean Monnet, a French civil servant/diplomat was drawing up a plan for a unified coal and steel union when Robert Schuman was going to a meeting in London to meet with other European Leaders. His plans were used as the basis for the coal and steel union, which led to the EEC and then to the EU. Monnet worked through out his life to further European integration. The Coal and Steel Union was formed to stop further European Wars, how you some how spun this into and NWO conspiracy is beyond me. Maybe you should clear up your ignorance before telling others to?

Have you read the Constitution? it seems pretty clear you haven't. As sminkeypinkey said its simply a re-codifying of the pre-existing treaties that have been around for 50+ years. The scare mongering you hear from anti-EU people has been around for years and is completely unfounded.

Originally posted by IAF101
First, What do you mean by replica's - toys/fake guns or countrymade weapons.

- It means anything from realistic replicas to something that gave the 'victim' every indication that they were being threatened with a real gun...... but, as investigation discovers, not necessarily a real working gun.

Second, how can it be gun crimes if a real gun was not used , did the assailants club people with these things or what??

- I believe the idea is that it all depends if the 'victim' genuinely felt threatened by a gun (whether or not it was real, how could they tell if it was not 'used'?).

Also if this method of recording was not true as you imply then why are they conducting a fake survey?

- It is not a "fake survey".
If you read the article you'll see it was actually the UK Police's method of recording crime that changed over the years, not the crime survey.

For instance, it used to be the case that if a person assaulted 3 people in a single 'incident' that would be counted as a single crime, ie a single crime comprising of 3 separate assaults.
Now it is recorded as 3 individual crimes.

So, one can quite easily see from this how this alteration of the manner in which the Police stats are compiled that whilst it might appear crime has risen according to the official UK Police stats in fact it might have gone down.

There are statistics and there are statistics.

What purpose is there in changing a survey that gives wrong results??

- Er, like I said the Crime survey hasn't changed and is regarded by many as a reliable indicator of general trends that the bald Police stats alone cannot show.

Did you miss the line in the quote "The British Crime Survey, which was unaffected by this change, shows a decrease in crime."

Couldn't it be that the survey is actually true and the UK police doesn't get enough information of whats going on on its streets?

- I think you have misread the quote and got the wrong idea about the Crime survey; the BCS is highly regarded by Police Chief Constables and professionals in the UK.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

You have voted cmdrpaddy for the Way Above Top Secret award.

(Nice one.
We keep plugging away but there's some still seem determined not to listen cmdr!)

Originally posted by the_oleneo
devilwasp, you have no idea what the European Union is really about. I'm just astounded by the complete and utter ignorance of you Europeans of what the EU is all about and you all have been spoonfed BS for so many years fawning over the dreams and reality of the EU by the international advocates (read: NWO Elite).

Your future "Constitution of the EU" is over 500 pages long. It is a future Marxist superstate in which all of your rights will be subjected to the union by default.

You're just seeing the golden stars in a deep blue field and never mind the ugly secrets and hidden designs behind it.

[edit on 4/22/2005 by the_oleneo]

Do you have any idea what its about?
No the book you have suggested I read is most probably an opinion....
What is the EU about?
Is it about becomeing a marxist state (I must say using the good old red scare is sooo 20 years ago.
Why dont you tell us exsactly what the EU is, since ofcourse we europeans know nothing of an orginisation created, funded and invented here.

You have voted American Mad Man for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

To AMM:
I completely agree with you on this one. It is always a pleasure to read your posts. Some of your critics argue because they just love to argue. They use the internet to find obscure data thinking it 'means' something. True politicians!

To AMM's critics:
Iraq this, Bush that. Europe does the same crap that they blame us for. EVERYONE is involved. You sit at your computers pretending that you can armchair quarterback the problem away.

Spain found out the hard way that even if you give in to their demands and withdraw, they will still come for you.

The world has already changed and we cannot go back. No matter how many times you click the heels of your ruby slippers, it is long gone.

"Bush caused this" "Iraq was wrong" is easy to say. Europe is in this up to their necks even though they have no troops there. There are things going on that even your google searches will not find. You may never know about them. They happen every day. Unless you have a "need to know" you will NEVER know. You are out of the loop. End of story.

If you think that "everything you need to know can be found on google", you are wrong! I always read things like "just do a google search" as proof of something. Or "visit this site for all the proof." Just because it is on a site or in a newspaper doesn't mean it is true. Just because it is in a book doesn't mean it is true.

The majority of the stuff found on the net is crap that THEY want to to know so that you argue about it ad nauseum. If you are too busy bickering about nothing, you will never see the truth.

Common sense is not too common anymore.

Originally posted by Souljah
Hey AAM, what's the point of this thread?

You copy-pasted some facts about how Hitler rose to power, but I dont see any connections between that and the Europe today. Who is the Hitler of Europe Today then in your opinion? Who is this Evil Dictator that you are comparing to Hitler? Who is this Evil Country that you are comparing to befor WW2 Germany?

All I can see is a counter-punch to thread of ghostsoldier - but without any real Facts and Connections with Europe today and Nazi Germany of 1930.

Whats the point...?
You have to ask?!
Wash your eyes out, Souljah.
Try a created topic thread with 3 pictures, and some copy-n-paste of its own.
Here buddy, since your 'eyesight' is blurred, k?
America 2005 is Germany 1930

You and ghostsoldier must be 'kissing cousins' or something, huh?
You don't make any sense sometimes, buts that is cool, its funny.
You ask why when why is quite self-evident.
You, as others, can continue to spew your own anti-American rhetoric but god forbid if the game gets slammed back at ya, eh?
Whats that old saying:
What goes around, comes around?
But you ask: "What is the point.....?"

Here's a word of humble advice: Don't 'slam' and you won't have to worry about being 'slammed' [read between the lines].



seekerof

[edit on 23-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Nice rebuttal to absolutely nothing Seekerof. He already said what you are trying to "prove" to him. These are all a bunch of silly threads. This one in particular has no sincere meaning to it rather than to attempt to ridicule another thread on ATS. Hey, maybe everyone is like Hitler, after all, Hitler was human and so are we all.

Frankly, I'm surprised retalitory threads with the only agenda to ridicule another thread are allowed on ATS. Perhaps, AMM's entire initial thread would be more appropriate on the thread that directly inspired it. But I guess, as long as it supports the appropriate moderator's agenda....

as posted by Jamuhn
These are all a bunch of silly threads. This one in particular has no sincere meaning to it rather than to attempt to ridicule another thread on ATS. Hey, maybe everyone is like Hitler, after all, Hitler was human and so are we all.

Oh, I quite agree, friend Jamuhn.
Though they are silly, hateful, rhetoric ridden, among other descriptives, they continue to get created within ATS.

Can "we" do anything about them. Not likely. Cause when "we" do something about them, the cries of freedom of speech, bias, along with other mentions and allegations get leveled.
Example:

as posted by Jamuhn
But I guess, as long as it supports the appropriate moderator's agenda....

No...this is a community type action, for it will take the community to make this type stuff stop. Creates nothing but continued division and 'bad blood.'
Pretty sad, but many never get this, so the cycle continues.




seekerof

[edit on 23-4-2005 by Seekerof]