Europe 2005 is Germany 1930

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Well, I meant this in extreme exageration Sminkey.

- You ought to watch that then AMM, if your idea of extreme exaggeration is becoming indistinguisable from your regular stuff......

However, your rights ARE second to the US. You DO NOT have the right to bear arms. That is a VERY important right, as it is the one which allows the others to be defended.

- Well you just would say that wouldn't you.
I suggest the vast bulk of the peoples of Europe couldn't give a 'flying one' for the right to keep private arms (although a surprising number still do) ; many of us prefer the right not to live in a gun obsessed and gun crime/accident and injury strewn society.

......and we sure as hell don't see any great need for private guns to "defend" the rights we actually have.

(BTW did you see the level of 'gun crime' went up in the UK according to official figures released today?
Almost all of the rise was down to the use of harmless replicas.
I must say if we have to have it at all that's how I prefer my gun crime .)

France has already banned Muslim women from wearing their traditional head wear now haven't they Sminkey?

- You'll find many French Muslims supported this.

But really, a headscarf ban is nowhere near even close to 'banning' a religion. Is that the extent of your 'evidence'?

Your true colors are showing through Sminkey. You are a socialist if you believe in an income cap - and again, that was one of the main points of the Nazis as I have so shown.

- Oh yeah. My right royal a$$ the nazis went in for income caps. Their 'socialism' was nothing less than window dressing for the want-to-believe gullible who needed steering away from the then also rising German communists.
Krupp and all the others in the ultra wealthy part of the then German society were given plenty of methods of escaping such illusory and utterly meaningless schemes.

But I note you would prefer to avoid the detail of such an idea by employing the label 'socialist' (yeah, like I'm going to see that as some sort of derogatory term.....say 'liberal' and watch my lip refuse to curl too ).

BTW I do not consider myself a 'socialist' at all, more a social democrat in the western European tradition (but I doubt the subtleties will mean too much to you).

Seems like you have more in common with Nazis then you care to admit.

- Yeah and I also breathe in air, drink water and eat food to exist too. Right about there I think the similarities stop though.

(Feel free to try and persue this line and not look silly )

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was just pathetic...talk about childish

- Oh wow, did I really did hit a nerve there huh?

That was a joke AMM, I thought it was a bit obvious myself (but you obviously felt the need to dive right in to return a 'childish' crack).

Come on now, chill out; think mellow, take and hold a few deep breaths and think about somewhere nice, peaceful, relaxing and calm.

(or head back to the doc for the retolin! )

[edit on 21-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
In response to the nonsense of a thread started by all the American hating boobs on this site, I have decided to show that EUROPE is in fact much more like 1930s Nazi Germany then the USA ever could hope to be.

Shall we look this over?

Reasons for Hitlers assention to power

Public feeling, guilt, blame, and responsability

Hitler rose to power in Nazi Germany for many reasons. Among these were the Germans bitterness because of the Versailles treaty and the resulting lack of national pride. Of the treaty, the main clause of contention was 231, which assigned BLAME of WWI to Germany. One of the problems with admiting guilt in this case, was the fact that Germany was supposed to pay reperations to the victims, which they flatly refused.

There is a direct link between this responsability that Nazi Germany did not want to shoulder and the responsability that modern Europe refuses to shoulder. Among these include the current continental problems of Africa and much of the middle east.

Just as Germany refused to pay reperations to France, so to does modern Europe refuse to spend the money to fix the unfathomable problems they have caused with their centuries of imperialism.

In contrast, the US has NEVER started colonies in another land. In fact, the closest thing to colonies the US has are military bases, which were either AGREED on by the nations own government, or are still standing from WWII. In either case, their is absolutely no argument that this constitutes imperialism of any kind.

The Government

Next, take the National Socialist German Workers’ Party 25 point plan, around which Nazi Germany was built.

01) The unity of all German-speaking peoples.

02) The abolition of the Treaty of Versailles.

03) Land and colonies to feed Germany’s population.

04) Only Germans can be citizens. No Jew can be a German citizen.

05) People in Germany who are not citizens must obey special laws for foreigners.

06) Only German citizens can vote, be employed or hold public office.

07) Citizens are entitled to a job and a decent standard of living. If this cannot be achieved, foreigners (with no rights as citizens) should be expelled.

08) No further immigration of non-German must be allowed. All foreigners who have come to Germany since 1914 must be expelled.

09) All citizens have equal rights and duties.

10) The first duty of a citizen is to work.

11) All payments to unemployed people should end.

12) All profits made by profiteers during the war must be shared.

13) Nationalisation of public industries.

14) Large companies must share their profits.

15) Pensions must be improved.

16) Help for small shops and businesses; large department stores** must be closed down.

17) Property reform to give small farmers their land.

18) An all-out battle against criminals, profiteers, etc., who must be punished by death.

19) Reform of the law to make it more German.

20) Improve education so that all Germans can get a job.

21) Improve people’s health by making a law for people to do sport.

22) Abolition of the Army, and a new People’s Army in its place.

23) German newspapers must be free of foreign influence.

24) Freedom of religion.

25) Strong central government with unrestricted authority.

Of all these points, the only 'negative' ones that could be aplied to either the US or Europe would be the socialistic points, such as #13, to Europe. Europe and the US share basic freedom and life improvement points such as #9, 20, 24.



Propaganda

Hitler was a master manipulator of the people. He used a minority (the Jews) to unite his people, blaming as many problems - especially economic - as he could on them.

This too, falls in line with European thinking. The unbelievable doublespeak of the most radical Europeans serves as the best example. On the one hand, the US is portrayed as a great evil dominating force which must be stoped at all cost. We are a small part of the world and yet have a lot of influence. Our corporations are too large, we have too much power, we are rich, and arrogant.

These are all EXACTLY the same things that HITLER said about JEWS. He said they were evil. He said they were a small part of the population yet had all the money. He said they stuck their nose where it didn't belong. They had too much power. They were, in fact, evil according to him, mostly because of their buisness practices.

Yet on the other hand, the Jews were vastly inferior. They were, according to Hitler, genetically inferior in fact. Physically, they were considered weak, and mentally their minds were only good for manipulation, not anything constructive. Hitler, was in fact arrogant himself in his belief that Aryans were so much superior to others.

Now consider the sentiment of some people on the US. Americans are stupid and uneducated. Physically we are inferior because we are fat. Americans, according to the arrogant European types, are both physically and mentally inferior to themselves.

Now, Americans on the other hand have no such sweeping opinions of others. The French are the butt of many of our jokes, but the fact is we don't care enough about any Europeans to truelly dislike anyone else, unlike Europeans who seemingly spend every last drop of effort in their hatred of the US.

Economic Collapse

Germany experienced economic collapse due to hyper inflation. Germany had loans and reperations to pay (loans from the US were recalled because of the great depression, reperations to France from WWI which they could not afford), and simply printed more money in order to pay for it. This, in turn, caused high rates of unemployment in Germany.


Now, comparing the US to Europe, Europe has both a higher unemployment rate and a slower growing economy. While the US does have outstanding loans, they are no where near to what Germany was dealing with in terms of proportion. In addition, the loans could be paid of by the US in under a decade (in 1 year if extreme messures were taken). Not only that, but those nations that hold our loans could not hope to collect these loans without destroying their own economy, thus providing an insurance against this. On the otherhand, Europe has socialistic programs already in place along with a huge (compared to the US) unemployed population (see France and Germany).

Important factors in a dictatorship and other thoughts

An armed vs. unarmed population

There are several over riding things that every dictator needs to accomplish before a population can be controled. The most important however, is dissarming the population. It doesn't matter if you are speaking of Stalin, Hitler, or Saddam. That is the very first thing every dictatorship must accomplish - without it, the population can easilly fight back.

In this regard, there is no comparison between the US and Europe. The US is the most heavilly privately armed population in the world, while all over Europe the people are being stripped of their fundamental right and ability to defend themselves.

Lack of difference in political view

It is very important for a dictator to be liked by the population in the initial moments. What a dictator wants is for everyone to be on the same page politically.

The US hardly fits this profile, as our last two elections have shown. The US is very devided, and every political race becomes a war to barely win. On the other hand, European political thought is much more streamlined, with a heavy socialist influence on economic policy and overall a very liberal mindset. A savy ambitious dictator wunna-be could easilly manipulate this, just as Hitler manipulated people wanting jobs and German patriotism.

In closing

I made this post not to show how close to Nazi Germany Europe is, but to show just how stupid such comparisons are. It is not close to complete, or my best work. I could easily manipulate things to make Europe look as if it were already under fascist rule. But thats the point here, you can really make anyone look as bad as you want if you twist things the way you want them.

For all you out there (GhostSoldier, Anok, etc) who wish to make this comparison - STOP, IT ISN'T THERE!

This idea that the US is in any shape or form close to Nazi Germany is a joke - a complete fabrication of the minds of American hating boobs who wish nothing more then to comfort each other in the thought of how evil America really is.

I for one am sick of it.

I TOTALLY AND COMPLETLY AGREE !!! Only someone who NEVER lived in Europe or never studied The all Nazi deal with Hitler could ever think that the USA is ANYTHING close to that. You ppl that think that way are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO way far out there, you have no idea!

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Babbling?

I'm sorry, if you agree with the premise of this thread - that the EU is closer to Hitler's Germany than BushCo. - and give it the WayAbove.. you are lacking much information. If you went or go to public school, though; that is why. They don't teach kids anything about our wars - other than we were the heroes and we won. In the case of Korea and Vietnam, they normally just skip right past those.

My god man. Are you that slow??

Man, this is like explaining how to breathe...
I said nice post and gave it a WATS because yes I completely agree with AMMs sentiment that making such comparisons is ridiculous.
Why would I do all that in agreement with what he wrote then in the same post show what he wrote isn't really what he meant?



You're a bright one ECK, a real bright one.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- You ought to watch that then AMM, if your idea of extreme exaggeration is becoming indistinguisable from your regular stuff......

Well perhaps it is you that have the problem, after all you are the only one that commented on it.

- Well you just would say that wouldn't you.
I suggest the vast bulk of the peoples of Europe couldn't give a 'flying one' for the right to keep private arms (although a surprising number still do) ; many of us prefer the right not to live in a gun obsessed and gun crime/accident and injury strewn society.

Yes, I would. I have no doubt many Europeans "couldn't give a flying one", but that never the less IS a right that WE enjoy and YOU don't. It also demonstrates one of the many ways that Europe resembles the early stages of a dictators rise to power. That is not to say that it WILL happen, but you can not deny that dissarming the public is the very first objective of every dictator.

......and we sure as hell don't see any great need for private guns to "defend" the rights we actually have.

And perhaps that will be your downfall. I for one enjoy the fact that we, in the US, do in fact HAVE THE OPTION of defending our rights.

In the words of Thomas Jefferson Benjamin Franklin, I offer these words of wisdom:

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. "

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. "

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

(BTW did you see the level of 'gun crime' went up in the UK according to official figures released today?
Almost all of the rise was down to the use of harmless replicas.
I must say if we have to have it at all that's how I prefer my gun crime .)

And I will take my violent crime rate to yours.

- You'll find many French Muslims supported this.

But really, a headscarf ban is nowhere near even close to 'banning' a religion. Is that the extent of your 'evidence'?

Everything starts somewhere. In the US you may dress however you wish. In France you may not.

- Oh yeah. My right royal a$$ the nazis went in for income caps. Their 'socialism' was nothing less than window dressing for the want-to-believe gullible who needed steering away from the then also rising German communists.
Krupp and all the others in the ultra wealthy part of the then German society were given plenty of methods of escaping such illusory and utterly meaningless schemes.

But I note you would prefer to avoid the detail of such an idea by employing the label 'socialist' (yeah, like I'm going to see that as some sort of derogatory term.....say 'liberal' and watch my lip refuse to curl too

).

The detail? The details are there for all to see. The stated goal of the Nazi party included, as I have shown in this thread, the cap of maximum income so that it may be redestributed. You agree with this policy it seems

BTW I do not consider myself a 'socialist' at all, more a social democrat in the western European tradition (but I doubt the subtleties will mean too much to you).

I understand you are not a pure socialist Sminkey... I merely mean to point out that just as there are comparisons with some American beliefs that can be taken out of context, so to does this aply to European thoughts - even your own.

- Yeah and I also breathe in air, drink water and eat food to exist too. Right about there I think the similarities stop though.

And I would argue that at the very least you agree with Nazis in some respects, including taking away the right of private citizens to own fire arms and the caping of personal income in order redistribute it to others.

- Oh wow, did I really did hit a nerve there huh?

That was a joke AMM, I thought it was a bit obvious myself (but you obviously felt the need to dive right in to return a 'childish' crack).

A joke in bold edited in? If you say so, but regardless as you have proven in your first post, understanding jokes over the internet is a bit more difficult then it is in person.

Come on now, chill out; think mellow, take and hold a few deep breaths and think about somewhere nice, peaceful, relaxing and calm.

I am perfectly calm my friend, I just find your posts on this thread really entertaining and ammusing.

(or head back to the doc for the retolin!

)

I stopped taking that stuff in high school - there is much better ADD medication available today

Europe is a huge place and also cannot be commented on as a big coop, unemployment is regional as it is in the US, I am sure unemployment in New York differs from that in another city. OR do we start grouping the financial and employment status of a ntion by the continent to which it is connected????

Originally posted by American Mad Man
I have no doubt many Europeans "couldn't give a flying one", but that never the less IS a right that WE enjoy and YOU don't.

- We could care less.
It is truely so not something many of us care about at all.

(Those that really want a gun can get one if they meet the legal certificate requirements.
IIRC around 30 000 handgun certificates are in circulation and a further 60 000 shotgun ones are in the UK......and by the way pistol ownership on the European continent is not such a big deal in most countries.
The idea of a completely unarmed citizenry is a myth.)

It also demonstrates one of the many ways that Europe resembles the early stages of a dictators rise to power. That is not to say that it WILL happen, but you can not deny that dissarming the public is the very first objective of every dictator.

- Er, yes I can.
Take a look at just about any ME dictatorship; you'll find many of the people there, if not all, armed, so much for the general insistance from some that gun ownership is any 'safeguard.
(and as for the idea that assault weapons = freedom from tyranny? ........well even RPG's and SAM's can't guarantee it in the ME.)
Look at Saddam, he even armed almost his entire country with automatic weapons and they didn't turn on him.

It's a simplistic and total non-arguement IMO.

And perhaps that will be your downfall.

- Only in your wildest fantasies mate.

I for one enjoy the fact that we, in the US, do in fact HAVE THE OPTION of defending our rights.

In the words of Thomas Jefferson Benjamin Franklin, I offer these words of wisdom:

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. "

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. "

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

- Comfort yourself with all those phrases as much as you like but as Wako (and the umteen other petty and pretty much unreported) examples show it doesn't mean squat whan it comes to it.

Still (and I hope it doesn't ever) but if it comes to it enjoy the futility of going down fighting.

And I will take my violent crime rate to yours.

-
You are very welcome to it.

(and don't forget to add in the maimings and fatal accidents and the maimed and fatal domestics etc etc)

Everything starts somewhere. In the US you may dress however you wish. In France you may not.

- Absolute nonsense. Come on AMM, you know better than that.
Tune in, wise up and tell the truth.

In French schools you may not dress completely as you please just the same as in some US schools with their 'dress codes' .

The detail? The details are there for all to see. The stated goal of the Nazi party included, as I have shown in this thread, the cap of maximum income so that it may be redestributed.

- Like I said it was a meaningless PR lie for the gullible that never actually happened.
The ultra wealthy in nazi Germany were left accumulating wealth exactly as before if not more so.

You agree with this policy it seems

- A maximum wage is hardly a concept unique to the nazis.
I think it is an idea with some merit.

I understand you are not a pure socialist Sminkey.

- Glad you can see the differences.

And I would argue that at the very least you agree with Nazis in some respects, including taking away the right of private citizens to own fire arms and the caping of personal income in order redistribute it to others.

- ....and I would say such a comparison is utterly fatuous as those 'policies and ideas' were/are hardly unique to or 'owned' by the German nazi party.

A joke in bold edited in? If you say so, but regardless as you have proven in your first post, understanding jokes over the internet is a bit more difficult then it is in person.

- Now that I will agree with 100%.
2D text on a screen does have it's limitations for sure.

I am perfectly calm my friend, I just find your posts on this thread really entertaining and ammusing.

- Glad to at least entertain.

I stopped taking that stuff in high school - there is much better ADD medication available today

- Now that was definitely a joke; I know little or nothing about that stuff other than the tabloid stories about it being over-perscribed to supposedly pacify rowdy kids at school.



[edit on 21-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

uh-oh, i just have to bite on this one. I am insanely jealous of Europes' ability to be energy self-sufficient. Germany has 60% renewables, and their ability to pull together- whether you call it socialism, communism, or some other joy-joy label- is phenomenal. I have been studying Europeans' use of biomass energy solutions to power and heat their communities, and it is just astounding. They use their 'power' much more efficiently to the common good- which is more than I can say for dog-eat-dog American consumerism. I also see that they are much more open to change- which is what scares the bejeezus out of most security-loving wage slaves. Our government is currently passing the same enron energy bill of 2001- Our leaders' inability to forecast 'real' issues is depressing.

The executive orders that dilute our constitution, corporate welfare and empowerment, media control, attacks on the judicial branch and reduction of accountability for the police, and lack of privacy all seem to have a Nazi -flavor. Yes, I can see how it might be very intimidating to have our Country be called Nazi-like- very threatening indeed. We might have to 'change' our ways, and that would just be disastrous.
-------------
seperate church and state
Go work on your website
Fear is illusion
audit the IRS

That is not to say that it WILL happen, but you can not deny that dissarming the public is the very first objective of every dictator.

Sure it might be but no one is disarming the citizens of European countries, they have the right to own a gun, if they wish, the fact that they don't want one doesn't mean they are in some way susceptible to being over run by dictators.

Umm if we cant own weapons then what is the bisley range for?
If thats so we might want to get SO-19 on the phone and tell them of a major find...

Yeah the idea that you can't have guns in Europe is a bit deceptive.
On one hand it's much harder to get pistols, on the other hand, rifles and shotguns are pretty popular, and not particularly difficult to get.

What I hear from a friend in Sweden is, that while you have to pass a training course to get a permit, once you have your permit there are actually fewer restrictions on what you can buy. For instance, there is no equivalent to the US's Title III restrictions, if you have the permit, it's perfectly legal to buy a fully automatic assault rifle, SMG, whatever.

The difference is that the US has Constitutional guarantees that allow citizens to own firearms, where I don't believe most European countries have such protections. That doesn't mean there is a blanket ban on firearms ownership.

Why do you think there are so many European gunmakers? FN, Beretta, Sig, Glock, HK.... I could go on all day...

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
'Europe' is comprised of free and fully democratic modern liberal democracies (and right there is the end of this ludicrous infantile proposition).[edit on 21-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Uh, do you realize that Germany in 1930 was a fully democratic nation, somewhat free and pretty much modern?

See the pattern you're making here with today's European countries?

AMM is correct: Europe today is more like Europe in 1930 through the evolution of the EU. In time, every European member-state will do away national sovereignty and identity to be an integral part of the EU.

Give it time. You'll know that AMM is right about it.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

- We could care less.
It is truely so not something many of us care about at all.

Taking speach lessons from Orange County vally girls are we sminkey

(Those that really want a gun can get one if they meet the legal certificate requirements.
IIRC around 30 000 handgun certificates are in circulation and a further 60 000 shotgun ones are in the UK......and by the way pistol ownership on the European continent is not such a big deal in most countries.
The idea of a completely unarmed citizenry is a myth.)

Well thats good to hear that they have almost 100k legal fire arms, unfortunately - it is more then I thought. It is not, however, a significant number in a nation whos population is messured in tens of millions.

- Er, yes I can.
Take a look at just about any ME dictatorship; you'll find many of the people there, if not all, armed, so much for the general insistance from some that gun ownership is any 'safeguard.

Actually, Sminkey, in most of their dictatorships it IS in fact illegal, and where it is legal, it is only so because there is no reasonable way they could de-arm the population. However, just like your nation (or mine for that matter) it does not prevent the people from obtaining them.

- Only in your wildest fantasies mate.

You have me all wrong Sminkey - I don't want Europe to fall at all. It represents a very large part of the civilized word, and I greatly apreciate the different culture. On top of that, I travel extensively there, both on buisness and for holliday.

On top of that, I am one of a growing number of Yanks who enjoy "the other" kind of football (although I prefer the Spanish game a bit more to the English premier league). Besides, I have made a pretty penny doing consulting work over in England - way more then I ever could have in the states at my age with my limited resume.

- Comfort yourself with all those phrases as much as you like but as Wako (and the umteen other petty and pretty much unreported) examples show it doesn't mean squat whan it comes to it.

Still (and I hope it doesn't ever) but if it comes to it enjoy the futility of going down fighting.

The difference here Sminkey, is that in a full blown revolution, the military would become devided, and the people would outnumber said military 149 to 1 (and thats assuming not a single defoctor.

And again, it is an option that the US enjoys and you don't. It is a shame that you feel you have no chance against your own government if they were to turn bad.

-

You are very welcome to it.

(and don't forget to add in the maimings and fatal accidents and the maimed and fatal domestics etc etc)

Gladly - you violent crime rate is still nearly DOUBLE that of the US.

- Absolute nonsense. Come on AMM, you know better than that.
Tune in, wise up and tell the truth.

In French schools you may not dress completely as you please just the same as in some US schools with their 'dress codes' .

Yes, I realise I am being a bit much here, but that is the point of this thread. It is the EXACT same tactics used by those who compare the US to Nazi Germany.

I do not feel, as I have said many times in this thread, that Europe is anywhere close to Nazi Germany just as I do not believe the US is anywhere close to Nazi Germany. The connection just isn't there for either of us. However, I WOULD argue that Europe is CLOSER to Nazi Germany then is the US.

BTW - the difference in the schools you described is in France they are PUBLIC (state owned) schools while in the US they are PRIVATE schools. At a private school, you can have any (reasonable) rule you wish, as it is not paid for by the people.

- Like I said it was a meaningless PR lie for the gullible that never actually happened.
The ultra wealthy in nazi Germany were left accumulating wealth exactly as before if not more so.

For a select few who, as it should be expected, helped finance Hitlers rise to power. In fact, most of the Rich pre-Hitler were stripped of their wealth if they did not help Hitler, which was most of them.

- A maximum wage is hardly a concept unique to the nazis.
I think it is an idea with some merit.

How can you put a cap on what a persons time is worth (after all, that is at it's core what our economic system comes down too). If someone is willing to pay me a trillion dollars a second, who are you to stop me from earning that money?

- ....and I would say such a comparison is utterly fatuous as those 'policies and ideas' were/are hardly unique to or 'owned' by the German nazi party.

And yet the idea that there could be propaganda in the US some how justifies our Nazi comparison? See my point yet?

- Now that was definitely a joke; I know little or nothing about that stuff other than the tabloid stories about it being over-perscribed to supposedly pacify rowdy kids at school.

It actually does work wonders on some people (my self included) though because it is a stimulant, it can have some effects on your heart (which is why I went off it - not that I have heart problems, but I just figured it the smart thing to do).

However, I was not hyper active, I just lacked consentration.

Originally posted by drfunk
You know our former prime minister Bob Hawke held the guiness world record for being able to drink 2.5 pints of beer in 11 seconds? apparently the worlds fastest consumption of beer.

Now that's a politician you can take to the bank!
[edit on 21-4-2005 by drfunk]

Gotta love it. That is some fast beer drinkin.

Originally posted by drfunk
You know our former prime minister Bob Hawke held the guiness world record for being able to drink 2.5 pints of beer in 11 seconds? apparently the worlds fastest consumption of beer.

Now that's a politician you can take to the bank!
[edit on 21-4-2005 by drfunk]

I knew Bob was a drinker but didn't know he was that good. Damn.

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Uh, do you realize that Germany in 1930 was a fully democratic nation, somewhat free and pretty much modern?

Yeah it was also under threat by 2 very extreme parties.

See the pattern you're making here with today's European countries?

What is labour and lib dems now the new facists and commies?

AMM is correct: Europe today is more like Europe in 1930 through the evolution of the EU. In time, every European member-state will do away national sovereignty and identity to be an integral part of the EU.

How can you predict this?

Give it time. You'll know that AMM is right about it.

You seem sure of yourself, ethier ignorance or just unable to accept anyother interpretations...

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Taking speach lessons from Orange County vally girls are we sminkey

- I thought it might help you understand.

Yes, I realise I am being a bit much here, but that is the point of this thread.

- I thought I made it pretty clear right from my first post on this one what I thought of this 'tit-for-tat' thread idea.

I did get your point about this but I believe it to be deeply suspect especially as this has developed and grown into just another of the regular USA v Europe baits.

It is the EXACT same tactics used by those who compare the US to Nazi Germany.

- .....and you'll find I have not been one of them either.

BTW - the difference in the schools you described is in France they are PUBLIC (state owned) schools while in the US they are PRIVATE schools. At a private school, you can have any (reasonable) rule you wish, as it is not paid for by the people.

- Hmmm, if you say so. I'd be surprised if you don't have (as we do in the UK) something similar to a 'board of govenors' who - even though the school is state run - have the power to implement deatil policies like a dress code.

How can you put a cap on what a persons time is worth (after all, that is at it's core what our economic system comes down too).

- .....because some of us believe there are wider considerations. (Even the USA does too hence some kind of tax and redistribution system, right?)

If someone is willing to pay me a trillion dollars a second, who are you to stop me from earning that money?

- ....but the point of a maximum income is you can actually 'earn' it.... but once you go over the 'ceiling' it'll be taxed away.

As I said you'll find the idea far from unique to nazi Germany.

And yet the idea that there could be propaganda in the US some how justifies our Nazi comparison? See my point yet?

- Like I said I got your idea about being annoyed by the nazi/US comparison in the other thread right from the start.

I still say the place to complain about this is on that thread, not start a mirror here.



[edit on 22-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

I want to see figures which clearly show that the UK's violent crime rate is double that of the US. No BS, just find them.

Thanks.

Thomas Crown, I don't know what happened here - just editing..

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Souljah
Now for which "ruler" in Europe can you claim the same or similar comparison to the Nazi Germany? The French president Chirac?

Good links, Souljah. The parallels are more than a bit creepy; they're downright damning.

I doubt folks who support Bush will be willing to look at these similarities, though.

I think TC wrote this in response to the above..

Interesting, ECK, but there is more similarity with Chirac and Hitler, and the similarities go way back. As a matter of fact, France and Germany has a lot in common.

Look around, as the enemy never attacks where you think he is. You just might be looking at a diversion. They sucker punch us all the time. I can't wait to see how either the EEU OR the US progresses in the next few years.

My paranoia meter is pinging, nowadays.

[edit on 22-4-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

I believe the European Union is what the bible (endtime revelations) describes as the revived Roman Empire. There are different schools of thought when it comes to endtime prophecy and many believe our nation is not mentioned in it. Considering the USA is the most powerful nation the world has ever seen, that is remarkable. That, along with many geopolitical factors, lead me to believe that our nation is facing some dark days ahead. Perhaps a massive terror attack or a complete financial collapse (or a combination of things) will hit us so hard, we will no longer be the dominant power we have been. I could see us then, becoming a proxy of the EU. Just some thots on the EU's rising prominence on the world stage..

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Uh, do you realize that Germany in 1930 was a fully democratic nation, somewhat free and pretty much modern?

- No.
I do not agree that Germany as was (emerging from the ruin of WW1, that had suffered the initial late 20's plunge of the depression in Europe and was about to endure the early 1930's part of the economic collapse and that was under assault from anti-democratic large scalle mass political movements of the left and right) can in any credible way be compared to the modern state that is Germany today or any state in todays "Europe" either.

See the pattern you're making here with today's European countries?

- No, none whatsoever.

I'm sorry to say that yet again we're seeing the not uncommon ignorance about the EU in particular and Europe in general we often see here on ATS.

AMM is correct: Europe today is more like Europe in 1930 through the evolution of the EU.

- Sorry but comparing the Europe of the 1930's with the EU is just even more absurd.

Please enlighten us as to the similarities that you imagine exist between todays voluntary collective of established confident relatively prosperous democratic free sovereign nation states operating under the rule of agreed law (domestic and international).......

...... and the disparate weakened post WW1, Europe suffering depression and economic ruin, disillusioned with democracy and the rule of law - with record mass poverty and unemployment, as was in the 1930's, and about to undergo the nightmare of nazi influence/occupation.

In time, every European member-state will do away national sovereignty and identity to be an integral part of the EU.

- So? We might, we might not. Guessing the future hardly proves a thing does it?
But even if we do continue to pool our small and less effective national sovereignty in persuit of greater actual and effective collective sovereignty (why do you think we do it, hmm?) how the hell is this 'loss of identity' idea supposed to work, hmmm?
How many centuries do you imagine that might take?!
Go to Greece and tell them the EU will make them no longer Greeks, or France and tell the French or....... etc etc.
The idea is just daft.

(Cos the track record of where it has been tried - even using the utmost brutality, violence and even mass murder bordering on attempted genocide - is pretty poor to date, right?
For instance England at various times attempted, using the most harsh and cruel methods to either wipe out or 'Anglo-ise' the Scots, Welsh and Irish for up to 8 centuries and it didn't work.

Sorry but the idea that this is possible - especially across all of 25/27 nation 'EU Europe' - nevermind on anyone's agenda is quite simply laughable. Sorry but it is.)

Give it time. You'll know that AMM is right about it.

- This is just ridiculous nonsense.

The only similarity between 1930's/fascist conquered Europe (it's not even like most of Europe chose fascism) and today's EU Europe is it is all taking place on the same geography.


[edit on 22-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

What I believe this thread shows is people will see what they want to believe...