Well, here we go red lines crossed Biden gives the go ahead to use long range missiles

originally posted by: Ravenwatcher

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Texastruth2

If NATO had wanted nuclear weapons on Russia's border the USA, UK and France wouldn't have agreed to Ukraine handing over it's large nuclear arsenal to Russia after the break up of the Soviet Union and they would have fast tracked Ukrainian membership instead of telling them they had no realistic chance of joining the EU for at least another 25 years - of course that last bit was before Putin's invasion which itself contravened Russia's side of the deal.

Didn't Putin agree to not invade Ukraine during this deal of giving up nukes?

I think the multiple US sponsored bioweapons labs near the Russian border in Ukraine revoked that promise. I would expect that would be a deal breaker.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

no proof those were doing anything that could be weaponized.

a reply to: Ravenwatcher

Didn't Putin agree to not invade Ukraine during this deal of giving up nukes?

Russia agreed to recognise Ukrainian independence and sovereignty, to respect it's borders and to never invade Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine's nuclear arsenal.

en.wikipedia.org...

Some people seem to believe NATO broke that agreement by actively seeking Ukraine membership of the organisation. However, Ukraine was told in no uncertain terms that it had no chance whatsoever of even being considered for NATO membership for at least another 25 years.
As such there was absolutely no chance NATO weapons of any kind were ever planned to be situated in Ukraine and they posed no threat at all to Russia.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Any actual hard evidence that there were any US biolabs in Ukraine?

Russia pointed out that the 2014 Euromaidan protests amounted to a coup, making the Ukrainian government illegitimate.


- Arguing that the Budapest Memorandum does not prevent actions taken in response to internal threats or referendums such as Crimea’s.

- Stating that the memorandum is not legally binding, as it is a political agreement rather than a treaty.

More on “not legally binding” below

The Budapest Memorandum was negotiated at political level, but it is not entirely clear whether the instrument is devoid entirely of legal provisions. It refers to assurances, but unlike guarantees, it does not impose a legal obligation of military assistance on its parties.[2][53]

According to Stephen MacFarlane, a professor of international relations, "It gives signatories justification if they take action, but it does not force anyone to act in Ukraine."[52]

In the US, neither the George H. W. Bush administration nor the Clinton administration was prepared to give a military commitment to Ukraine, and they did not believe the US Senate would ratify an international treaty and so the memorandum was adopted in more limited terms.[53]

The memorandum has a requirement of consultation among the parties "in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning the ... commitments" set out in the memorandum.[54] Whether or not the memorandum sets out legal obligations, the difficulties that Ukraine has encountered since early 2014 may cast doubt on the credibility of future security assurances that are offered in exchange for nonproliferation commitments.[55]

Regardless, the United States publicly maintains that "the Memorandum is not legally binding", calling it a "political commitment".[25]

en.wikipedia.org...


Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for this promise. Now, people can say it was a weak deal because it didn't have teeth to stop Russia from the get go.

One thing is for sure, the 2014 coup was backed, and not only by the “people of Ukraine” .

And It knew ahead of time that Russia would most likely respond.

a reply to: Ravenwatcher

Are we still here?

No nukes out of the pram yet Vladimir?

I wonder which imaginary red line will be crossed today.

That will ruffle his feathers and get him blustering about more nuclear nonsense and threats of annihilation.

Big peacock that he is.

a reply to: andy06shake

You realize either way people are dying.

a reply to: lostgirl

He’s really changed his position on that.

In 2022, he said Biden wasn’t doing enough, and said if he was president, he might use our drones to help them.

a reply to: Imhere

Yanukovych ran his campaign on joining the EU. Ukrainians elected him to do that.

They were about to sign the agreement, and a last minute back room deal with Russia prevented it. He fled to Russia and bought a 52 million dollar house.

To me, this seems like a chicken and the egg conundrum. Which came first?

a reply to: Lazy88

Really Lazy88?

I thought they were just playing a big game of tig.

You realise that people die when they go to war and have done so throughout the span of recorded human history.

Point of fact it's pretty much the name of the most unpalatable game.

That being kill or subdue the other side before they return the favour.

Dont, change the fact that Putin's invasion force is in the wrong postcode.

Or that Ukraine is unwilling to capitulate nor roll over and die just yet.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Kremlin funded ultra-nationalist militia's had also been provoking and agitating throughout the Donbas region since at least 2014. They targeted official Ukrainian government installations and offices, non-Orthodox Christians and pro-independence Ukrainians.

These militia's comprised of many Russian Army vets, Chechens and other extremists from throughout Russia and Serbia....all funded by The Kremlin.

Yanukovych still lives in the lap of luxury in Russia enjoying his considerably more than 30 pieces of silver for selling out his own country.

a reply to: Freeborn

Not to mention, the ultimate goal is annexing more land.

Crimea was the jewel, the eastern part is to provide a land bridge.

It’s been incredibly rare post WWII that modern powers conduct war to extend their borders. By doing that, it makes it a lot harder to say your mission is motivated by altruism or seeking stability.

The largest nation on earth, by mass, has shown they have an appetite for more land. While doing so, they’ve said Ukraine isn’t a real country or separate ethnic group, showing that what they control now may not be the end of their ambitions.

The whole region is going to be skeptical of Russia for decades to come. Even after this war, there’s going to be tension.

a reply to: Ravenwatcher

Putin should punish Biden. He is the WW3 provoker. Release the files.

originally posted by: WeMustCare
a reply to: Ravenwatcher

Putin should punish Biden. He is the WW3 provoker. Release the files.

Not Putin who actually invaded another country then?

Now we have Biden sending anti-personnel mines.

www.foxnews.com...

Is there any lengths he will not go to at this point to provoke Putin even more before Trump takes office?

But, he will make sure there is a "smooth" transition of power in January.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
Now we have Biden sending anti-personnel mines.

www.foxnews.com...

Is there any lengths he will not go to at this point to provoke Putin even more before Trump takes office?

But, he will make sure there is a "smooth" transition of power in January.

When Russia uses anti-personnel mines is that a provocation?

originally posted by: PorkChop96
Now we have Biden sending anti-personnel mines.

www.foxnews.com...

Is there any lengths he will not go to at this point to provoke Putin even more before Trump takes office?

But, he will make sure there is a "smooth" transition of power in January.

Biden is escalating this whole damn thing and he has not a care in the world because he’ll be out of power/politics and retired very soon.
It’s almost like the UK and Germany are pushing him to join them in making the stupidest foreign policy moves.
Not at all smart moves by supposed mature rational world leaders.

a reply to: Freeborn

Kremlin funded ultra-nationalist militia's had also been provoking and agitating throughout the Donbas region since at least 2014. They targeted official Ukrainian government installations and offices, non-Orthodox Christians and pro-independence Ukrainians.

sure nuff, look up look up igor gerkin / igor strelkov who was head sh@@ starter for putin's fsb in crimea and the donbas.

he lead both and claims he pulled the trigger in donbas. and is also suspected of war crimes in chechnya, and is the one who gave the order to shoot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

no doubt about who ordered his actions.

a reply to: Vermilion

If we believe what Trump said in 2022, he would have escalated this far quicker. He said he may have used US drones right at the beginning of the conflict.

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

If Russia does it, it's a provocation. That is all Putin knows