Critical shortcomings of the Patriot complex

a reply to: RussianTroll

Where are the mass graves of 'Irish in Britain'?

Lets look at Russia's history for some comparisons.

Its estimated that approximately 20 million Russians died during Stalin's reign.
Millions upon millions more were forcibly relocated to places like Siberia and the outer regions of Russia.

Those who died included Tatars, Chechens, Kalmyks etc along with Russian's of German and Polish origins.

Then there were those who died in the various purges.
And lets not forget those who died in the Holodomor and events like the Katyn Massacre.

You're a religious person RT....does the phrase 'Let he without sin cast the first stone' ring any bells with you?

a reply to: RussianTroll

Free and sovereign nations of the world are now uniting around Russia. Soon there will be no NATO or EU, but BRICS!

China is the superpower in that relationship.

But alas, it will just be a multipolar world, which is fine. Doesn’t mean NATO will go away. Maybe the EU, they’re a group of countries with rich history. Im not sure their experiment will hold. They have a model that seems similar to the USA, but it’s a bit different since we were new, and they’re trying to combine very different countries with different interests.

Respectfully if Russia has an advantage against the Patriot then use it...

Last I heard Ukraine's Patriot batteries intercepted 6 Kinzhals and 3-4 got through. Thats 100 million US dollars or 1 billion rubles and Russia can barely hold a sliver of land in Ukraine. As well as two of those hits were decoys in July and this last hit in October was on the radar and one or two launch tubes. According to Ukraine, it's still operational in the region

from what I gather the few Patriot batteries have performed well enough that Zelenskky is clamoring for more, not to mention what the other countries are bringing them in.

So Russia is in an excellent position as they know the weakness of the defense system all the countries around them will now deploy or is this akin to the Kinzhal missile hype?

How many missiles fired at Ukraine have been intercepted by their meager few Patriot batteries in country.

it has to be in the high 3 digits... da or nyet?


for proper perspective

www.newsweek.com...

Russia has periodically claimed to have destroyed or damaged components belonging to the handful of Patriot systems Ukraine has received from its Western backers.

In July, Russia said it had struck two Patriot launchers with Iskander-M missiles, which Ukraine said were decoys designed to waste Russian missile stocks.

Valuable and relatively rare across Ukraine, the U.S.-made Patriot is considered the gold standard of air defense systems. It is a top-priority target for Moscow.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Thank you for sharing that analysis.

I was wondering why the patriot systems supplied to Ukraine were not making much of a difference, and now I can understand some potential reasons for this!

It is sad that so much treasure and blood is being squandered over there, and the warmongers get richer on my back, and the backs of others....

a reply to: Fowlerstoad

The Patriot systems supplied to Ukraine have been crucial in intercepting Russian missiles, including hypersonic threats like the Kinzhal.

The air defence system has helped protect key infrastructure, reduced civilian casualties, and boosted Ukraine’s air defense capabilities, especially against high-altitude targets.

No system is perfect, but the Patriots fill a critical role alongside the other air defenses.

And help create a multi-layered shield against Russian air attacks.

Their mere presence on the battlefield alone has forced Russia to adjust its tactics even if it cannot stop all attacks.

a reply to: RussianTroll

The Patriot missile system has a 24 bit compute architecture which gives it insufficient accuracy for fast moving modern missiles. It was great against almost stationary test targets, and aircraft (what it was designed for), though, where iterative adjustments in-flight allowed for it to strike with accuracy. The limitations of the Patriot system have been known since the Gulf War, where it led to the deaths of American soldiers from SCUD missile attacks, and against which it was powerless.

"The results of these studies are disturbing. They suggest that the Patriot's intercept rate during the Gulf War was very low. The evidence from these preliminary studies indicates that Patriot's intercept rate could be much lower than ten percent, possibly even zero." (Statement of Theodore A. Postol before the U.S. House Of Representatives Committee on Government Operations, April 7, 1992)

While parts of the US military-industrial-complex have been trying to get rid of this white elephant tech, other parts were trying to shore up continued payments and government contracts, and kept denying that the system was essentially useless

Raytheon kept updating the software with patch after patch, but the truth is that the system was a waste of money from the get-go, and to properly test each software patch would require the firing of missiles against targets that moved at the speeds of modern missiles, something which is prohibitively expensive, and so each expensive 'upgrade' just made it less likely that the system would ever be properly tested. The military just had to take the manufacturers word for it.

The US military has now discontinued the Patriot missile system in June this year, but it is still in the process of being replaced.

But, hey, it's called "Patriot", right!

a reply to: Fowlerstoad

You do realize they have a limited number of batteries right?

Russia learned the hard way to not bother shooting at them so now they hit where the patriot isnt.

a reply to: chr0naut

Your knowledge is dated... Yea it sucked in Desert Storm and they have continually updated it since greatly improving it. Believe it or not dod does kill programs that prove to be worthless, if it was anywhere close to as bad as the OP says or you imply it would have been discontinued years ago.

Thats about all I got.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Well, they seem to be wanting more of them in spades.

They cannot be that bad or untrustworthy in combat.

And there is the taking down of a few Kh-47M2 Kinzhal.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: Lazy88

Have you forgotten about the mass graves of Indians in America, Irish in Britain, and Irish children in Catholic monasteries in Canada?

I’m not the one trying to say how great a country is. You try to say how great Russia when it has sinned like any other nation. It’s no different. And Putin is a war monger to line his own pockets.


By the way. List the mass grave sites of native Americans in the USA. But don’t forgot the massacres commit by native Americans on europeans people and massacres committed among the tribes before Europeans showed up.

By the way. Notice you didn’t list how the techs and scientists killed in the Sarmat missile explosion were honored or even acknowledging in anyway to protect Putin’s pride.

Double post

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Where they are shooting themselves in the foot with changing demographics by allowing mass immigration.

a reply to: Lazy88

Western nations need to get a hold on their economies so they can address immigration.

We see politicians position the topic to the public out of altruism, but I believe it’s for a different reason.

I have a friend who’s worked on several Republican gubernatorial campaigns, and now works for a large PAC. He’s a very rational conservative who can talk about issues without using rhetoric, likely because him and I are close.

We were talking about immigration, and he said behind closed doors a lot of the discussions weigh in the lessening birth rates in the US, but that applies for Europe too.

Younger people are only going to have 1-2 kids, if any, so long as their pay doesn’t trend along with inflation and housing costs. But all of these economies are expected to grow 2-5% each year.

The easy way to do that without systemic change is to increase population, as that can add to production and GDP. The hard way to do that would be get a hold on the economy, but that would require navigating some issues that will be difficult for both sides to agree on.

That said, it’s a bit of a hot take, and I’m using anecdotal information I got from a friend. So grain of salt and all of that.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Considering your beloved hero Joe Stalin deliberately killed about 6 million poor sods or thereabouts.

9 million if you factor in the foreseeable deaths arising from his policies.

I think you may be pissing into the wind there RT.

And that's a conservative estimate.

We could not lace his boots if we are honest.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Lazy88


lessening birth rates in the US, but that applies for Europe too.

A voluntary solution to an overpopulated planet that isn’t being followed by third world nations with Muslims using mass migration to spread jihad and change the fabric of countries.

Sorry. If these countries are shooting themselves in the foot for cooperate profits, they are idiots. For people not smart to only have one to three children.

The Patriot missile system can be linked to AWACS Aircraft, and the US did that during the Gulf War.
Since Ukraine does not have AWACS Aircraft, the system will be less effective.
a AWAC aircraft flying at 20 to 30,000 feet can see and data link targets at way longer ranges then ground based radars giving a heads-up on low flying targets

you have no reading comprehension.
i said they survived not that they thrived
to weather the storm and come out on the other side intact is commendable
they had heavy losses yes but they were not completely wiped out






a reply to: Lazy88

originally posted by: chr0naut
The US military has now discontinued the Patriot missile system in June this year, but it is still in the process of being replaced.

Might want to double check that. As of last month they killed the Patriot replacement, the Lower-Tier Future Interceptor, and are looking at further upgrades to Patriot MSE to keep it into the 2040s.

The Israeli army discontinued the Patriot in June of this year, and is possibly sending them to Ukraine to bolster their defenses, but the US army has no plans to get rid of Patriot any time soon, and will continue to upgrade it.

a reply to: coldisbest118

Shrugs…



Doesn’t make the poor Russians in mass graves less dead. Or their murders less criminal.

Ok and? What's the point in you pointing this out? I am unsure of your intentions here. Are you saying that simply to counter me? Are you saying that I am somehow in the wrong?
You bring up a point that is tertiary to my point in order to make me out to be morally in the wrong, is my guess.
I never said that murder is not a criminal act, nor did I denigrate the dead Russians.



a reply to: Lazy88