The Project 2025 Psyop .

a reply to: fringeofthefringe

Not all the framers of the constitution were religious or even following the same Christian belief system. A divine creator or God like figure isn't specific to Christianity.
They had the freedom to openly talk about such things back then just like we do now because they weren't under the boot of Christiendom of Europe.

a reply to: Degradation33

You may be right on the origins dating pre Christianity. I dont' have the knowledge to tell you you are wrong.

But what I do know is that none of what you mentioned save pointing to the Magna Carta are identified within The Constitution nor any oaths sworn to it.

a reply to: wAnchorofCarp

Influences on Christianity and western culture come from all over.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I have been married for forty years to my present wife, and I was married to my Ex before that, got married because she was pregnant.

The first marriage did not last, she was too wild and controlling, event he marriage counselor told me I should get divorced when we went to get help. She is Bipolar.

I have two daughters with two different wives...I know first hand how women get when they get pregnant...moody as hell, not just my bi-polar first wife. I also have had many friends with pregnant wives...some of them were actually the women in the relationship. They get hormonal and very angry sometimes, not all women are like that but many are.

There is plenty of medical evidence that verifies what I am talking about, maybe the getting an abortion to get back at their husband/boyfriend is more rare, but I do know two women who did exactly that...and this is not a lie and I will not give anyone their names because I would be defying their trust in me. Both of these were to get back at a boyfriend, not a husband I will admit.

You cannot make a general statement..I believe the majority of women can make good decisions, but some of them have really bad hormonal episodes when they are pregnant.

I forgot to mention, I also knew a girl back forty five years ago that was pregnant that wanted to lose the kid so purposely did some sports stuff so she would lose the kid...I do not know if that was hormonal related, she was already around five months pregnant when she did that and past the time of getting an abortion in a town bordering Wisconsin and Illinois at a clinic there. In that case, she would have been better off with a legal abortion...her action was not to get back at a father, it is because she was not ready to have a kid.

I had a lot of friends that were girls when I was young, some of the prettiest in the area. I never went out with them, I put them into the sister class and we talked about lots of stuff. So many that some people thought I was gay because I was friends and not interested in them as sex partners. I was a seventies person, desiring to be a free type liberal person who smoked pot and partied with everyone and was friends of almost everyone except Jerks. I analyzed everyone, and I was really good back years ago at talking to people and listening to their troubles and trying to get them back on track...especially women for some strange reason, they would confide in me and I did not judge them. That is one of the traits I can say I was good at. I listened to women and steered them to make the decision they knew they already needed to make. Some of them got alienated from their friends because of bad guys they got involved with, control freaks...there are lots of guys like that but there are also many women like that too. I am sure you know some control freaks yourself. Meanwhile, most of the women who felt bad for going against their friends reunited with their friends or found new ones and stayed away from the bad boys. I have no clue why some girls/women get attracted to bad boys. Also, with some of the gays I know, the dikes as they used to call them...were jerks and controlling a lot.

I try not to judge people, I try to understand them...I do dislike and judge Jerks though and try to stay far away from associating with them. They are everywhere, in every field of work, I give them only the respect equal to what I give others. I also know that parroting deceit is common and many people are brainwashed to believe in things that are not true, mostly because they want to belong to a group they are associated with. And I feel sorry for them and try to steer them in the right direction if I am able....I have settled a lot of irate people down in my life. I used to have more patients when I was younger, now I seem to be losing my patients since so many people in society are being towed into improper behavior...I don't care for all the polarization in society anymore. It wasn't bad when it was mostly sports that was polarizing people, now it has gone berserk. I have seen a major shift in society over my last fifty years, people being forced to choose sides with issues. I was for limited abortions when they started, but have seen way too many people getting them lately and I liked being part of a family when I grew up, most people I knew did but it seems things have changed and I don't think it is for the better.

I know, I am just an old fart, I am sixty eight, grew up on a farm for a summer and lived in a small city in the U.P.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: wAnchorofCarp

Influences on Christianity and western culture come from all over.

So does water from the sky yet it’s still not Trump’s doing.
Some of you treat him like a messiah more than the magats do.
Interesting.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: wAnchorofCarp

Influences on Christianity and western culture come from all over.

That's completely besides the point we are discussing.

My point is that there is a set of underlying values, standards and cohesion that lead to the forming of our nation from a specific standpoint. The founding fathers wanted to make sure that was clear but also that it was not dictated from a government that it be a requirement of The People.

a reply to: Vermilion

I see what you did there....

a reply to: Vermilion

Wut??

a reply to: wAnchorofCarp

Greek and Roman law, philosophy, have more of an influence on American politics than Christian doctrine. It doesn't take a genius to know to follow "golden rules".

a reply to: strongfp

...and where does the "Golden Rule" come from?

You can keep fighting me on this, that's fine. But at some point you will need to concede where the values and morals come from....

originally posted by: wAnchorofCarp
...and where does the "Golden Rule" come from?

What is your answer?

a reply to: wAnchorofCarp

You can keep fighting me on this, that's fine. But at some point you will need to concede where the values and morals come from....

Are you trying to get an admission from this person it comes from god or a specific church doctrine, because thats far from true.

Earliest I could find for the rule.

The earliest known written version of the Golden Rule is from the ancient Egyptian story "The Eloquent Peasant" which dates back to around 2040 BCE. The story is about a peasant who is wronged by a wealthy landowner but chooses to treat him with kindness and respect instead of seeking revenge. The Golden Rule in this story is phrased as "That which you hate to be done to you, do not do to another

That's the OLDEST rendition written in hieroglyphics.

This rule is WHY there is universalism.



It's just good business. It follows the ideal of mutual respect. Even wolf packs have enforced borders. The wolf Golden rule would be "Hunt in another's territory like you would have them hunt in yours"

That's the Wolf version and it follows territorial Alpha animal culture to its pinnacle. I know the story of the sermon on Mt. Sinai, but that was just one incorporation of an instinctual respect of anothers boundaries and claims.

Like how most early codes revolved around enforcement of property rights and possessions. It carried from when we were territorial hominid groups.

I know humans have this story that the Golden Rule is some divine attribute explicity imparted to humans, but it really is not, and existed before the Bible was even a thought.

I think the Golden rule is half empathy, half territory, and not unique to any one animal. It is more rooted in competition and naturally regulates the social species to thrive. A harmony equilibrium.

I think it's totally natural. Including the morality it evolved into.

a reply to: Degradation33

But we don't use the colloquium "The Eloquent Peasant."


The poster used "The Golden Rule."

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: fringeofthefringe

Not all the framers of the constitution were religious or even following the same Christian belief system. A divine creator or God like figure isn't specific to Christianity.
They had the freedom to openly talk about such things back then just like we do now because they weren't under the boot of Christiendom of Europe.

The Declaration of Independence, one of the most pivotal documents in American history. The Declaration of Independence laid the philosophical foundation for the new nation. Central to its argument was the mention of God and the appeal to divine authority, reflecting the values and beliefs of the God of the Bible, which significantly influenced the values and identity of the emerging American nation.

The U.S. Constitution never explicitly mentions God or the divine, but the same cannot be said of the nation’s state constitutions. In fact, God or the divine is mentioned at least once in each of the 50 state constitutions and nearly 200 times overall, according to a Pew Research Center analysis.

God was everywhere during the founding of our nation

You can try to split hairs but chrisianity is the bedrock of our nation, to the dismay of many. Like Obama.....

a reply to: fringeofthefringe

The founding documents allowed for slaves to be held, yet it said all men are created equally.

The nation was founded by mostly specific denominations of Christians, or theists, that doesn't mean it was made FOR Christians specifically.
In todays world we see this in action with demographic change, and catholicism growing. A lot of the first colonies banned catholics. Not very Christian now is it?

The nation was founded by mostly specific denominations of Christians, or theists, that doesn't mean it was made FOR Christians specifically.

a reply to: strongfp

Respectfully, I would say "keep your eye on the ball".
I never said America was "made for christians" what I pointed out was America was founded in "God and the appeal to divine authority, reflecting the values and beliefs of the God of the Bible". What Obama and apparently you are missing is as christians we respect other peoples religious beliefs, just because muslims, jews and athiests are welcome to pray and worship or not worship as they wish that does not mean America is not founded on christianity IN FACT it is BECAUSE we are a christian values based nation that they are permited to worship side by side or choose to be an atheist. Those are christian values.

a reply to: fringeofthefringe

I never said America was "made for christians" what I pointed out was America was founded in "God and the appeal to divine authority, reflecting the values and beliefs of the God of the Bible".

Certainly, the biblical God would not approve of the Bill of Rights. The 1st Amendment alone violates the 10 Commandments, especially the first 3. Our immigration law would be considered blasphemy, and the USA would be struck down Sodom and Gomorrah style, according to Ezekiel 16:49!

Jesus never taught Christians should try to enforce Christian values by capturing key government offices and legislating those values into laws. He certainly wouldn't have approved of military actions against indigenous people or enslaving people of color because of their skin tone.

Thankfully, the Unted States of America does NOT reflect biblical values. Let's keep it that way!

a reply to: fringeofthefringe
You have to remember that native american kids were sent to boarding schools to have christian beliefs thrust upon them.

In places where the spanish, also christian, conquered they built churches over the native's holy places to force them to slowly accept christianity.

All the god talk has always had one reason for being there, to win over that segment of the population. Nothing more than lip service.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Now tell us what He thinks about what the libs are doing to the kids, DEI, and abortion.

a reply to: Vermilion

The Old Testament God hates "ungodly" children and ordered them and their parents killed, even while still in the womb.

But, the Old Testament God doesn't have a problem with DEI.

The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34