Actual Nazis invading Russia? Nightingale Battalion

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

I think the insignia origins may go back somewhat further than 1941 through.

It has a long and complex history in European heraldry and folklore by the looks of things.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

I think the insignia origins may go back somewhat further than 1941 through.

It has a long and complex history in European heraldry and folklore by the looks of things.

Ah, I already wrote a whole topic on this!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

ETA: And 2 follow up topics I posted

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Another ETA: If by any happen-chance you do read my articles, I would ask you keep in mind the Business Plot and nazi sympathizers in America in the 1940's. Like you said, the history goes back. I went as far back as Romulus and the founding of Rome. We can probably go back further to be honest. The Etruscan's paved the road TO Rome.

a reply to: andy06shake

Yes. Both have a neo nazi problem.

www.newsweek.com...

Task Force Rusich, which has reportedly been actively involved in fighting in Ukraine on behalf of the Kremlin, said on its Telegram channel it was pressured by Russian officials to delete a post "about the [encouragement] of execution of prisoners."

It's sad to see that we still have idiots that follow Nazi ideology.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Looks intersting.

Dont recall reading that one.

Ile give that a read.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

With respect, I haven't misunderstood anything.

Yes, at the time Germany was in control of Ukraine as Germany advanced through the Soviet Union.
These Ukrainians fought alongside Germany in the hope that Germany would defeat the USSR and reward Ukraine with its independence.
A very naive belief but their primary motivations were the defeat of Soviet Russia and Ukrainian independence - we know that the reality would have been that they become nothing more than a vassal state of Nazi Germany....swapping one dictator for another.

Their goals haven't changed today - they don't want to spread Nazi ideology or anything of the sort, they want to remain independent from Russian control.
Have a look at their history, who can blame them?

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Why not, they want jew extermination to the same degree. Makes them easier to demonize.

But Hamas is too busy trying to call Israel the Nazis to use the imagery themselves. They do swords and black flags with white lettering. Or green flags with swords and white lettering. Their imagery is their own brand which diverged from the Caliphates.

The Ukrainians obviously thought the homage was worth it. They were all over the place too. Some teamed up with Germany to fight The USSR, some fought both.

I think what matters most about using its name is they fought the USSR. Outwardly it's not a swastika. It's a bird.

And maybe a psychological game on Zelensky's part, "I'll show you Nazi with a blitzkrieg of our own."

There may be mocking of Putin present people are missing.

What funny is in the Ukraine/Russia the American left is doing exactly the opposite of what they preach.

The Ethnic Russian Ukrainians were being treated as second class citizens, I'm not gonna go through everything but Ukraine banned the Russian language as the 2nd language in Ukraine. In the Eastern areas that were vast majority Russia speaking they took Russian off street signs, off store front signs, out of official government literature. Banned schools in Eastern Ukraine to teach in the Russian language when most of the kids grow up there only speaking Russian etc etc

It would be the same if Canada banned everything French in Quebec where the vast majority of people speak French, many don't even speak English or have very limited English skills. Imagine your kids are raised in Quebec only speaking French then all of a sudden the Canadian government said "sorry, no more French in schools, English only". Those Government forms that the 88 year old french speaking woman needs filled out to get her rebate cheques? Sorry those are in English only now. Etc etc you get my point.

Oh and groups of English speaking Canadian Nationalist thugs are coming to Quebec to ensure no French is being used.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: andy06shake

Yes. Both have a neo nazi problem.

www.newsweek.com...

Task Force Rusich, which has reportedly been actively involved in fighting in Ukraine on behalf of the Kremlin, said on its Telegram channel it was pressured by Russian officials to delete a post "about the [encouragement] of execution of prisoners."

It's sad to see that we still have idiots that follow Nazi ideology.

How Newsweek has changed...

But the radical views of the Azov commanders of a group affiliated to Ukraine's national guard which works alongside the army, and the use of symbols echoing Nazi emblems have caused alarm in the West and Russia, and could return to haunt Kiev's pro-Western leadership when fighting eventually ends

The Azov battalion originated from Biletsky's paramilitary national socialist group called "Patriot of Ukraine", which propagated slogans of white supremacy, racial purity, the need for authoritarian power and a centralized national economy

In 2008, Biletsky urged "thousands of young fanatic apostles" to advance its ideas. Local media have reported on several violent incidents in which the group was involved.

www.newsweek.com...

You won't ever see Newsweek articles critical of any part of Ukraine any longer

Not advocating nor denying here.

Just spitballing really.

Why is it so hard that Eastern Europe might have been seduced and infected by Nazis or Nazism or their ideals to a degree?

I mean hell. Here in the states we co-opted them into government so the Soviets wouldn’t snag them first,
in terms of scientific brain power, political clout, and authoritarian machinations they made up so well in terms of their regime and reich through Operation Paperclip etc.

It’s like they hibernated for two generations and now are exacting their revenge vs. the West and the US specifically.

Hail H.Y.D.R.A. and stuff.

Do a "Duckduckgo.com" image search on "Nightingale Battalion Ukraine" and you get a bunch of stuff about Azov and Ukrainian far right Nationalists.

a reply to: Freeborn

So your justification is, it's heritage? I'm asking as a German American....

Now let's take Hamas out because you agree Hamas should wear swastikas.

Should German Americans wear swastikas?

Thank you. My great grandfather was actually in the party before he escaped in 1937. I don't wear swastikas.

Youre conflating the dixie flag argument for a symbol of genocide and hate. The confederacy is not comparable

a reply to: TheMisguidedAngel

It would be the same if Canada banned everything French in Quebec where the vast majority of people speak French, many don't even speak English or have very limited English skills.

You need to look at Bill 96. The actual opposite is happening slowly. To eradicate the English language in Quebec.

While many elements of the law, commonly known as Bill 96, took effect shortly after it was passed, others were delayed. Those include restrictions on communications with the provincial government in languages other than French, French-language requirements for certain contracts and a requirement that small businesses tell the government how many of their employees don’t speak French.

But Eva Ludvig, president of the Quebec Community Groups Network, said the changes taking effect Thursday — and others to follow — will make life harder for English-speaking Quebecers.

globalnews.ca...

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: TheMisguidedAngel

It would be the same if Canada banned everything French in Quebec where the vast majority of people speak French, many don't even speak English or have very limited English skills.

You need to look at Bill 96. The actual opposite is happening slowly. To eradicate the English language in Quebec.

While many elements of the law, commonly known as Bill 96, took effect shortly after it was passed, others were delayed. Those include restrictions on communications with the provincial government in languages other than French, French-language requirements for certain contracts and a requirement that small businesses tell the government how many of their employees don’t speak French.

But Eva Ludvig, president of the Quebec Community Groups Network, said the changes taking effect Thursday — and others to follow — will make life harder for English-speaking Quebecers.

globalnews.ca...

I used it ONLY as a theoretical example to compare the situation to what Ukraine was doing to its own Russian speaking citizens.

You didn't honestly think I was saying Canada was really doing that, did you?? It's why I said "It would be like if" meaning it wasn't real it was just a hypothetical situation.

But good for the people of Quebec. It everyone there speaks French and that's what the vast majority prefers using then French should be the dominating language and if English isn't needed for certain things there then they should get rid of it. It should be up to the people living there, just like it should have been up to the people in Eastern Ukraine to continue living their lives with their language of choice that they've been using.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

What a bizarre response.

Now let's take Hamas out because you agree Hamas should wear swastikas.

I think Hamas should be obliterated off the face of the earth.

Should German Americans wear swastikas?

If you want.

.....I don't wear swastikas.

Cool....you get a Brucey bonus point for that; neither do I.

Youre conflating the dixie flag argument for a symbol of genocide and hate. The confederacy is not comparable

I don't really know what 'the dixie flag argument' is....but I can guess.
And I'm not really saying that; I'm saying this battalion is not comprised of neo-Nazi's - some maybe, most will not be - but rather Ukrainians who are fighting to preserve their independence from a foreign invader. A foreign invader that has brutally suppressed their nation and people in the past and seeks to do so again in the here and now.

Their motivation to the use the insignia that they are is NOT the pursuance of Nazi ideology but rather the fight for independence.
They aren't Nazi's, they are Ukrainian Nationalists - if you equate the two together that says far, far more about you than it does anything or anyone else.

a reply to: TheMisguidedAngel

The Ethnic Russian Ukrainians were being treated as second class citizens, I'm not gonna go through everything but Ukraine banned the Russian language as the 2nd language in Ukraine....

But let's look at root causes; Why was the Ukraine government doing such things?

Because Kremlin funded militia were engaged in a campaign of agitation, provocation and even terrorism against Ukrainian government institutions throughout the region.
This included targeting ethnic Ukrainians in their own country, non-Russian Orthodox Christians, Jews, Ukrainian culture and heritage and any official Ukrainian government institutions.

Did Ukraine react disproportionately at times?
Quite probably - which played right into Putin's hands and was probably the reaction he had desired all along.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: TheMisguidedAngel

The Ethnic Russian Ukrainians were being treated as second class citizens, I'm not gonna go through everything but Ukraine banned the Russian language as the 2nd language in Ukraine....

But let's look at root causes; Why was the Ukraine government doing such things?

Because Kremlin funded militia were engaged in a campaign of agitation, provocation and even terrorism against Ukrainian government institutions throughout the region.
This included targeting ethnic Ukrainians in their own country, non-Russian Orthodox Christians, Jews, Ukrainian culture and heritage and any official Ukrainian government institutions.

Did Ukraine react disproportionately at times?
Quite probably - which played right into Putin's hands and was probably the reaction he had desired all along.

Why did Nazi Germany do such things? Did America and the UK/allies create the Nazi party?

Did Germany react disproportionately at times? Quite probably, which played into the Allies hands and was probably the reaction they had desired all along.

a reply to: TheMisguidedAngel

I used it ONLY as a theoretical example to compare the situation to what Ukraine was doing to its own Russian speaking citizens.

I have linked a fact that Quebec is trying to eradicate the English language. That you can't deny.

So by your logic should Britain now arm the English speakers of Qubec. to take the fight to The French Speakers ?

a reply to: Imhere

Why did Nazi Germany do such things? Did America and the UK/allies create the Nazi party?

The short answer is "no".

America and the UK did not create the Nazi Party.

There were however certain historical events and policies that transpired regarding both our respective nations that indirectly contributed the rise of the Nazi Party.

Did Germany react disproportionately at times? Quite probably, which played into the Allies hands and was probably the reaction they had desired all along.

Was that not more driven by anger over the Treaty of Versailles and overall internal instability.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Yeah. Ukrainian heroes were controversial, to put it mildly. They were guilty of heinous war crimes but for Ukrainians the only thing that counts is that they fought with the Soviets and died trying to create independent Ukraine. Cultivating the memory of these people motivates Ukrainians to fight for freedom. It strengthens their patriotism even if the price to pay is falsifying history. The myths replace facts.

I didn't hear about recreating the Nightingale Battalion. I only knew the good old OUN was still alive and feeling well. However apart from publishing books and magazines, where they skew history as they see fit, they are pretty harmless. No chopping up children or something.

I thought that only Poles got triggered by this type of things. It seems other nations suffer from "Ukrainian Nazis" related PTSD too.

a reply to: Imhere

Sorry, I really don't see the comparison.
Care to elaborate on The Rise of The Nazi's and how its similar to Ukraine's fight for independence?