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And most importantly of all Ukrainians consider themselves to be Ukrainian, they want to be independent and have no desire whatsoever to experience Russian subjugation, again.
They didn't have any say in the matter - Putin invaded Ukraine, NOT the other way round.
So, again; do you think there are any similarities between The Republic of Ireland and its independence and Ukrainian independence?
Perhaps you may even elaborate and try to explain your answer?
Wrong. That's what the western propaganda says.
They did have a say in the matter. For example they could've chosen to stay neutral between russia and west.
But no, they wanted to work with enemies of russia.
What was russia supposed to do, sit there and wait until usa, uk and many more totally friendly countries surrounds it with their bases? Oh wait...
originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Imhere
"I’m an American and have been posting on this site for well over a decade."
So?
Although it banned the Azov movement and its leaders more than a year ago, Facebook continues to profit from ads placed by the far-right organization as recently as Monday.
Since July, Azov, which sprung up during the Russian invasion in 2014, has opened at least a dozen new Facebook pages. Alla Zasyadko, a 25-year-old member, has used one to place 82 ads on the social network, paying Facebook at least $3,726, according to the platform’s ad library. Many of the ads called for street protests against the Ukrainian government. One of the ads encourages children to sign up for a patriotic youth training course. Similar courses have included firearms training.
originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Imhere
Where as a lot of us Americans here aren’t that naive.
Isolationism isn't naive?
Appeasement isn't naive?
Sure.🙄
I’m an American and have been posting on this site for well over a decade.
Glad you’re acknowledging the rampant corruption with the officials in Ukraine.
originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: jofafot
CONVENIENTLY forget russians were living in "ukraine" way before "ukrainians" existed.
You should maybe read a bit of History...
It is uncertain how the state of Kievan Rus' came to be, but the Varangian nobleman Oleg the Wise is generally credited with having established a principality at the city of Kiev somewhere around the year 880. Kiev had already been established, but its origins are nebulous as well. According to archaeologists and historians such as Petro Tolochko (2007), Slavic settlement existed from the end of the 5th century in the area that later developed into the city. Kiev may have paid tribute to the Khazars before Oleg conquered it.
Russia evolved out Kievan Rus', so if you really wanted to bepedantic Kiev owns Russia and not the other way......
originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: stonerwilliam
.....and the way he is imposing dictatorship powers on Ukraine.
What 'dictatorship powers'?
originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: jofafot
Wrong. That's what the western propaganda says.
And how do you know its wrong?
Because Kremlin fuelled Russian propaganda says so?
They did have a say in the matter. For example they could've chosen to stay neutral between russia and west.
Russia and 'The West' aren't at war.
Ukraine is an independent country - independent countries get to choose whatever policies they like free from external pressure or influence.
NATO had no bases in Ukraine and Ukraine had been been told quite emphatically that it had no chance whatsoever of becoming a member of NATO for at least another 25 years.
Obviously all that changed the moment Putin ordered the invasion of a non-threatening independent nation.
But no, they wanted to work with enemies of russia.
Russian paranoia.
As I said, NATO is NOT at war with Russia and has no desire to be so.
Up until Russia invaded Ukraine - and vindicated a lot of countries concerns about Russian aggression - no-one really cared about what Russia did.
What was russia supposed to do, sit there and wait until usa, uk and many more totally friendly countries surrounds it with their bases? Oh wait...
All of those ex-Russian satellite and Warsaw Pact countries that have joined the EU and/or NATO have done so by choice. They approached EU/NATO of their own free will.
Perhaps you would be better served asking yourself why that is?
Why did they choose closer relations with 'The West' rather than Russia?
"Ukrainian" is not race, it is a nationality
Remind me again, why was nato created and by who?
Which countries are members of nato?
Drones and spy planes that belong to USA are flying around war zones and providing intel to "ukrainian" forces every day.
originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
No one hates the Russian people...
...Lots have hatred and contempt for their leaders...
originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
Judging by your posts, the hate is all yours.
originally posted by: Freeborn
Belonging to a nation - Ukrainians come from and belong to Ukraine
originally posted by: Freeborn
I'm glad you agree.
originally posted by: Freeborn
To counter Soviet expansionism and it's obvious who it was 'created' by - its founder members.
Lots of countries, I suspect they all have their own reasoning why they wanted to join.
One common and recurrent reason is fear of Russian aggression and expansionism.....obviously justified considering its invasion of its non-threatening neighbour Ukraine.
That's because Russia invaded Ukraine for no moral or legal reason.
If Russia hadn't invaded there would be no drones 'flying around' and there would be no war and still no NATO bases or involvement in Ukraine.
If Russia pulls out of Ukraine to the previous internationally recognised borders there will be no more drones and no more killing - pretty straight forward really isn't it.
So you honestly believe it was 'Western propaganda' that made all those ex-Soviet satellite and Warsaw Pact countries voluntarily want and choose to join NATO - and to continue to be members?
It has nothing to do with their previous experiences of Russian control and domination?
It has nothing to do with their fear of Russian aggression?
It has nothing to do with their choice to be independent and to be free to make their own decisions?
It has nothing to do with their desire not to be subjugated to Russian control.....again?
I could go on, but surely if you ask yourself those questions and answer them honestly I think you may then get an idea of why Ukraine is fighting so hard to repel the Russian invasion
and why there is a continued need for NATO.
"ukrainians" didn't exist before "ukraine" became a thing in 1991.
You can't be seriously thinking atleast a part of these so called "ukrainians" are actually aren't russians who tootally agree with their fellow "ukrainians", both about the current war and about who the lands belong to?
I didn't agree with you though.
So nato is not at war with russia....
If usa stopped aggressively surrounding russia with their military bases this war wouldn't even broke out.
But it is somehow always russia's fault, isn't it?
Tell me what good nato did since it has been formed.