Shooting Audio Visual Analysis, Butler, PA

originally posted by: kwaka
a reply to: Lazy88


Crew men that work with sonar do it a lot. Do need to account for the shape of the solid surfaces around.

And other factors, .. like “so bullets flying nearby sound like snaps or miniature sonic booms.”

Sonar operators have a very in depth viewing screen where they are watching real time data from a system with hundreds of hydrophones in a setup that gives direction.


www.reddit.com...

Nothing like trying to establish sounds and echos from a single microphone. Or trying to match time stamps and volume from numerous other microphones.

originally posted by: kwaka
a reply to: Lazy88

As a starting point for finding an echo,

How. If you echos Doppler shift. And how do you do that from a recording using a single microphone. When the same sound might bounce around two or three times.

a reply to: kwaka

Still doesn’t answer the question if “they” went to the trouble of using more than one shooter and were trying to hide that fact, you would use silencers.

Suspect #2: Counter Sniper Team stationed in the building over looking the rally where the shots came from. Further referred to as Rogue Team 1.

USSS Director Kimberly A. Cheatle claims Rogue Team 1 was not on the roof due to a 'sloped roof'.

Ex USSS agent and media presenter Dan Bongino claims Rogue Team 1 was positioned on the second floor inside the building complex.

Source

The evidence compiled so far is indicating that the first three shots came from inside the building.

Evidence #1: Audio data. The first three shots do have a reduced audio volume compared to the next 5 or 6 shots. The first three shots taking place inside the building does achieve this effect.

Evidence #2: Trajectory data. Media attention on the event has provided a lot of data to work with. Some results so far include:



Source





Source

Evidence #3: Opportunity. The location of Rogue Team 1 is where the trajectory analysis of the first bullet points to. This part of the complex is the only two story section facing the rally. The window was left open.







Source

There is still a lot unknow about events and what Rogue Team 1 did or did not do. Did the first three shots all come from the same shooter? Was there 3 shooter in different locations inside the building? Where other suspects involved? With Rogue Team 1 responsible for securing the area, there is a significant failure somewhere?

Further discussion about this topic can be found on the following thread:

There was a 2nd Shooter...

originally posted by: kwaka

Evidence #1: Audio data. The first three shots do have a reduced audio volume compared to the next 5 or 6 shots.

From what microphone? Was it directional? Was the microphone device towards Trump at first, then turned towards the shooting after a few shots? Or if like a cell phone, something like hand position changed. Do you have screenshots of the amplitude of the different shots?

originally posted by: kwaka


Evidence #2: Trajectory data. Media attention on the event has provided a lot of data to work with. Some results so far include:

All missed shots would have to end up in the crowd. Do actual injuries support this.

kwaka

Question: Why is the Kid not in a position on the roof to have Trump in his sights while keeping a low profile?

You know that is a false statement by you, right.

Suspect #3: Sniper team stationed at water tower. This team was responsible to make sure the Kid did not leave the scene alive. Further referred to as Rogue Team 2.

Evidence #1: Eyewitness. Statements taken by the media on the day of the incident.

Three witness.... shooter on water tower

Evidence #2: Audio data. The last shot fired about 10 seconds after the main burst has a distinctly different sound print from all the other shots fired. It is from a further distance away with a reduced volume. More audio work is required to define the location from this data alone.

Evidence #3: Opportunity.



This is the path the Kid took from his car that goes past the water tower. It helped him avoid police, but kept him under watch by Rogue Team 2. If anything did go wrong and the Kid tried to run back to his car, they would still have a dead suspect to pin it on. A quick case closed and stop any further investigations.

I don't know the security plan that day. Maybe Rogue Team 2 was suppose to be there and just doing their job? It is the high ground. As for how they could miss someone slowly worming their way up the roof with a rife from that vantage point?

Further discussion on this topic can be found:

Let's Talk About a Possible Shooter on the Water Tower

a reply to: Lazy88

How. If you echos Doppler shift. And how do you do that from a recording using a single microphone. When the same sound might bounce around two or three times.

To define the gun shot locations from the audio will require comparing the gunshot audio from different locations. The difference in time between the gun shots can be used to measure the distance between the microphone and gun shot location. By having multiple locations to do this, it will triangulate the gun shot location.

It is tricky trying to align the different audio tracks with its location. Done right and there will be a clear patter that does add up in many ways.

originally posted by: kwaka


To define the gun shot locations from the audio will require comparing the gunshot audio from different locations.

As in known and pinpointed locations and knowing if the mic was directional, not directional, if something like a hand was over the mic, how close to a wall.


So. For the audio analysis, can you answer any of the above. Or you just all like “conspiracy”? With no actual evidence anyone else shot at Trump than Crooks? Maybe the secret service took out another would be assassin. Or law enforcement shot an innocent civilian. Or someone just misread the audio data. If “they” wanted to keep additional shooters secret, why would they use anything else than a firearm with a silencer.

originally posted by: kwaka
It is from a further distance away with a reduced volume.

If there was audio from multiple devices from multiple locations, shouldn’t it be louder for some and not as loud for other mics. So you are contradicting yourself where things should be relative for each mic and location.

a reply to: kwaka

Unless the microphones recorded the same relative quietness of the shot in a perfect circle around the shooter with all the same distance, how would you triangulate the direction from a group of mics in the same location with the same level of quietness?

Two more recent ATS threads about this incident:

The Security Failures Had to Be Intentional - Making it Easier for TRUMP to be SHOT on 7-13-2024.

Flying saucer spotted during the Trump assassination attempt

originally posted by: kwaka
Two more recent ATS threads about this incident:

The Security Failures Had to Be Intentional - Making it Easier for TRUMP to be SHOT on 7-13-2024.

Flying saucer spotted during the Trump assassination attempt

Derailing your own thread?

So. If there was another weapon fired than Crooks’s and the weapon that killed Crooks, why did it have to be a weapon fired at Trump? Why not a 2nd weapon fired at Crooks?

a reply to: Lazy88

Derailing your own thread?

Do you comprehend the seriousness of this incident? Over 60 years later the JFK assassination is still a topic of debate, intrigue and investigation. How long and deep will this current rabbit hole go?

In performing a shooting analysis the aim is to compile a body of evidence, go through it, sort out the facts from the fiction and build a set of conclusions from what is known and proven.

For other readers of this thread that may have questions about Lazy88, formerly neutronflux style of contribution to this thread, we do have a long history:

Trying to resolve 9/11

To Lazy88, I know we disagree about many things. It has been tough. I do respect some of the contributions and questions you do have. When I have an answer I will let you know.

originally posted by: kwaka

Do you comprehend the seriousness of this incident?

Do you? You seem bent on pushing any link no matter how void of actual evidence it is.


Where I thought we should question everything.

Ever come up with a map of where and what microphones were used for the audio analysis. Or we supposed to not question that?

originally posted by: kwaka

Over 60 years later the JFK assassination is still a topic of debate, intrigue and investigation.

Vs to day with multiple video and audio sources with members of the crowd killed or injured. And no evidence other than Crooks shooting at Trump who was surrounded by a crowd of people.

originally posted by: kwaka
In performing a shooting analysis the aim is to compile a body of evidence, go through it, sort out the facts from the fiction and build a set of conclusions from what is known and proven.

No. You seem to cherry pick things that conform to your biases without questioning.

originally posted by: kwaka
For other readers of this thread that may have questions about Lazy88,

I have questions. Like if you think “they” used more shooters than Crooks, and were hell bent to hide that at all costs, why would they use nothing other than a weapon with a silencer.

How many shots fired at Trump where the shots would have to go into the people surrounding him? Why do the injuries only support Crooks shooting.

If more than one shooter at Trump, how did both fail to kill Trump on a stage. What was the plan if there was two bullets / injuries in Trump from different trajectories. With it being caught on video.

originally posted by: kwaka
To Lazy88, I know we disagree about many things.

Like where I don’t think innuendo and cherry picking to your bias is evidence, and marvel out how the most obvious and logical questions get ignored while others craft this convoluted impossible chain of plot?

Suspect #4: Biden and crew is on it. Further referred to as the Deep State. Trump talked about draining the swamp in to 2020 election, losing General Michael Flynn slowed progress. At the UN, "the time of the patriot not the globalist". Trump got banned off Twitter soon after this, down hill after that.

As an outsider to America, the biggest issue I see today is Ukraine. Biden is pushing for WW3, Trump wants to stop it. Russia put up with Hitler's plans for a while. As the campaign does build over time, when Russia had enough they beat the Allies to Berlin.

Evidence #1. JFK Assisanation

Evidence #2. 9/11

It has been tough trying to resolve these matters. The nature of man, life and this world that we do live in. It has a long savage history. Law of the jungle has ruled this planet for a very long time, we would not be here with out it. It helped shape the strong, capable bodies we do have today. Survival of the fittest. From my dives into what DNA is about, it does act as a search algorithm. Does even god know where all this is going if searching for a better way?

Maybe Noah did help get us here in some way? Mosses done what he could in tough times. Jesus helped raise the social standard. I do see god is trying with the improvements over past generations. To get here, life does require trying many things to find what does practically work. There will be many failures. This is how god works in looking for a better way.

The government culture around covid is very concerning. Targeting doctors that spoke out, staff that attended rallies and pushing for an increase in all cause mortality. Bill Gates got his 10% reduction. How the disconnect between child mortality/injury with the current vaccination schedule still continues? There is always the hard to sort these matters out.

The Deep State is a savage beast. Built on a tradition of war going back before recorded history. As for what it is fighting for these days? I know I would not be here without the state and what it has done for civilization. I know my approach of "If you cannot be honest about it, you should not do it" is not universally accepted. Deception has been a part of this world for a very long time.

In coming to terms with the deep state, it is a culture. I have lied intentionally and unintentionally at times, an opportunity from self determination in saving my butt or not thinking, participation and engaging about things enough. We are all sinners carrying a lot of past baggage. With the way the digital environment is progressing, deception is getting harder to pull off with all the checks and balances that are going on. While our self determination is still valued, hope remains that future generations will have it better than what we can imagine.

As for when the Grim Reaper visits, do we fall on the Kingdom of Darkness, the Kingdom of Lights or somewhere in the gray zone as most of us do?


Dear Deep State,

I was open to a cage fight with Dick Cheney after waking up to 9/11. You got me good. You play hard, got the money, tools and resources to have big advantage over everyone. I do understand how important the state is in organizing the community and keeping thing running. I do not want to see that fall.

I also understand that it is a tough job to take on dealing with the trash that society does offer. Having to go jungle rules at times to make some progress on their turf. As for where to draw the thin blue line? Have to work through the gray zone at times, when beholden by it is time to walk away. I know things are not that easy with the entangled mess life weaves. The slopped roof is a slippery one that is hard to get out of once caught.

Three main options at this time:

1: Go with Biden and kick of WW3 with Russia.
2: Go with Trump and work to save what we can through the troubles ahead.
3: Go on vacation and get as far away from all the madness as you can.

If you do want to fight for your nation, justice, community, ideology whatever is it, then I hope you can find the moral courage to stand against all your peers and do what needs to be done.

Kind Regards,

Kwaka

a reply to: kwaka

How about we work on things that can actually be solved in this thread.

Something like this..

kwaka

Question: Why is the Kid not in a position on the roof to have Trump in his sights while keeping a low profile?

Which seems to be a false statement. And you don’t get to the truth with false statements.

Victim Locations



This image is a rough draft compiled from the available information so far.

Shot 1 hit Trump in the ear. From there it has been suggested that this bullet went on to hit the Nephew, David, the railing and then the hydraulic line of the tractor.

Shot 2 hit James. The conclusion for this is based on how David and James respond to their injuries' near the same time. James appears to respond a bit quicker, this could be due to getting hit more center of mass or shock from David delaying his response.

A similar video to the one that got deleted earlier has resurfaced, X Link. This video highlights David, James and their reaction once the shooting starts. With the Nephew receiving a minor injury, their reaction does not stand out.

With the shot that hit Corey, timing is unknown as this stage. With reports that he died protecting his family, shot 3 or onwards does provide some time for an initial reaction.

One theory that does account for this pattern of injuries where the main target is Trump is 3 shooters at different locations within the building complex.

originally posted by: kwaka
Victim Locations


One theory that does account for this pattern of injuries where the main target is Trump is 3 shooters at different locations within the building complex.

Nope





The resultant fatal and none fatal injuries are accounted for by Crooks shooting window with all of them possible. Especially if only one bullet clipped Trump.

This second draft is a more accurate representation of the locations that bullet injuries occurred.

Corey location video, Link .
David location video, Link.
James, David, Nephew location video, Link

Working theory:

Shot #1 came from Rogue Team 1 located inside on the second floor. The view from this position provided a clearer shot at Trump.

Shot #2 & 3 came from Rogue Team 1 located inside on the first floor, in a position near to the Kid to make it look like the shots came from the Kid. More work on the elevation data is required to prove or disprove this.

Shot 4,5,6-8 came from the Kid on the roof or a Rogue Team 1 member outside and nearby. No pictures of round casings near the kid have been released.

Shot 2nd last came from the Counter Sniper Team on the barn roof at the Kid. The largest caliber rifle fired that day.

Shot last came from Rogue Team 2 at the Kid. A suppressed rifle from a longer distance away.

With the last video of the Kid so far stopping at a minute or two before the gunfire started, mystery still remains for what really happened. The Kid got shot is a similar location to where he was last recorded, did he even move from that position? As he was getting higher, more of the crowd was calling him out increasing his anxiety. As the Kid approached the top of the roof, the first thing he would see is the Counter Sniper Team pointing at him. The Kid was not battle hardened and got a big reality check when facing his own mortality. From here the Kid froze up as Rogue Team 1 took a contingency plan. With no autopsy of the Kid released, unknowns remain.

Did the Kid have a handler, communications and orders that day with a more coordinated Deep State plan? The Kid knew he did not have to shot at Trump, just get close and shot random in the air was enough to cause a distraction. The shooting took place at a very symbolic part of Trumps speech. For Trump to go the way of JFK with those final words would of been a very sad day.