Russian Talk of Peace Deal is a Sham - And That's Official

a reply to: Tolkien

So, you'd have NATO turn its back on Ukraine and abandon it to its fate under Putin?
He'd eradicate Ukrainian culture, relocate most Ukrainians to the Russian hinterlands and then forcibly relocate Russian people to those lands.

Once he's done with that he'd turn his attention onto his next victims.
Latvia? Lithuania? Estonia?
Then Poland?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Tolkien

So, you'd have NATO turn its back on Ukraine and abandon it to its fate under Putin?
He'd eradicate Ukrainian culture, relocate most Ukrainians to the Russian hinterlands and then forcibly relocate Russian people to those lands.

Once he's done with that he'd turn his attention onto his next victims.
Latvia? Lithuania? Estonia?
Then Poland?

THEY lost their war, not us.

They are out of soldiers, so bad they are kidnapping people off their streets.
No soldiers=lost war.

If YOU want to pick up a rifle and go the to front in Ukraine, go ahead.
I'll wait....I am sure you won't go.


I have ZERO interest in me or my sons being conscripted to fight this corruption war.
Nobody in the West wants to be conscripted for this war.

Yes, THEY lost
Yes, I do not want to risk my life, my sons lives for Biden's war.

With respect to future wars, just do what we did during the cold war: make sure they is a strong NATO military presency in border countries such as Latvia, Poland, etc, and there will be NO invasion.

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a reply to: Tolkien

a reply to: Tolkien

Who said anything about the west doing a draft or construction?

Everyone jumps to the worst hyperbolic outcome like draft and nukes.

I don’t see why the world needs to capitulate to the band of dictators just because nukes. Screw that. North Korea, Iran, Russia and China can kick rocks. We’re not going to keep them in check if we don’t have the fortitude to make good on a promise to a nation who destroyed their nukes with the promise we’d at least help them protect their sovereignty.

Russia is in no position to do anything in the immediate future primarily because this “special military operation” didn’t go as planned.

They lost more than they did in Afghanistan which helped lead to the fall of the USSR. They’re on track to lose more than the US has in all of our post WWII wars.

And you could say “Russia is just protecting their interests”, but I’d like to ask when’s the last time a world power has taken massive amounts of land from another country? That’s not a defensive war.

a reply to: gortex

Whether or not he's in that mindset is the big question. From reports we've heard out of Moscow, that seems to be the case.

But it's been US foreign policy that has created this situation. We expanded NATO to their borders after we assured them we wouldn't.

After they said Ukraine was their "Red Line"

The US:

-Staged the coup in 2014, installing our puppet.

-Funding 37 bio-weapons labs in Ukraine through our DOD.

-In Feb of 2022 the VP of the US said in front of all of Europe at a summit in Germany that we were going to bring Ukraine into NATO.

Putin is an evil scumbag, but his reasoning is pretty sound here.

He had more reason to invade Ukraine than the US had to invade Iraq.

a reply to: gortex

I'm familiar with the Petrov story.

But when there are actual nukes in the air, that's all she wrote.

An actual launch is not going to look like a computer error.

I would recommend Annie Jacobson's latest book "Nuclear War: A Scenario" on the current state of nuclear arsenals and doctrine.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Tolkien

Who said anything about the west doing a draft or construction?

Everyone jumps to the worst hyperbolic outcome like draft and nukes.

I don’t see why the world needs to capitulate to the band of dictators just because nukes. Screw that. North Korea, Iran, Russia and China can kick rocks. We’re not going to keep them in check if we don’t have the fortitude to make good on a promise to a nation who destroyed their nukes with the promise we’d at least help them protect their sovereignty.

Russia is in no position to do anything in the immediate future primarily because this “special military operation” didn’t go as planned.

They lost more than they did in Afghanistan which helped lead to the fall of the USSR. They’re on track to lose more than the US has in all of our post WWII wars.

And you could say “Russia is just protecting their interests”, but I’d like to ask when’s the last time a world power has taken massive amounts of land from another country? That’s not a defensive war.

Ukraine is OUT OF SOLDIERS.

Germany in WW2 failed in it's war with Russia despite having over 3 Million soldiers on the Eastern front
The current US Army is a little over 400 000 troops and the entire US military is about 2.8 million, including the Guard, etc.

This makes it obvious that any continuation of this war will REQUIRE conscription. Leaders of the UK and France have ALREADY said as much

NO THANKS !

Stop being an idealist and be a realist.
We made "promises" to the Ukraine ? Well, we also made "promises" to the people of Afghanistan, but we pulled out regardless.

This war is LOST

There is no point in wasting more lives and risking WW3 and nuclear armageddon.

Why are you still here ?
Go to the Ukraine front if you believe in this so bad.
I'll pass.

a reply to: watchitburn

"Staged the coup in 2014, installing our puppet."

No. The Ukrainian people sent their massively corrupt Russian puppet packing after they wanted closer ties with Europe and the West and he gave them closer "ties" with Russia, instead.

Even Putin has given up on the biolabs excuse.

What next, "denazification"?

Jeez.....

a reply to: gortex

Can't say I'm surprised really.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Come on dude, there's video of Victoria Nueland discussing who to install.

It was a textbook CIA color revolution.

a reply to: gortex

I don’t believe he’s saying what you think he’s saying.
According to his own quotes, how he said it is…

Ukraine accepts peace deal and Russia keeps what it has taken.
Then he predicts that “the remaining part of the radicals“(anti-Russia Ukraine factions) who return to power in Ukraine will “sooner or later” plan to take it back from Russia.
Then he says Russia will have to crush them when they do.

Ukraine will not be allowed to be an independent Country.

He didn’t say that. You did.
He predicts Ukraine won’t, in time, honor the peace deal.
If that’s the case and he’s correct in his prediction, then Ukraine won’t have an independent country because Ukraine won’t allow themselves to honor the peace deal they made.

Hope that helps.

Dmitry Medvedev does raise an issue of how peace is going to go long term with the current divisions going on. Where ever things are as a cease fire starts and serious negations take place, dealing with the generational cultural issues is going to be tougher. Even if a temporary peaceful solution is found, what is going to stop things from flaring up again one day in the future?

a reply to: Vermilion

This is what he said from the OPs link:

"What if they take [the deal] and accept it?" asked Mr Medvedev on Telegram.

"This will not be the end of Russia's military operation. Even after signing the papers and accepting defeat, the remaining part of the radicals, after a regrouping of forces, will sooner or later return to power, inspired by Russia's Western enemies.

"And then the time will come to finally crush the reptile. Drive a long steel nail into the coffin of Bandera's quasi-state," he said, making reference to the Second World War-era, far-right Ukrainian nationalist Stepan Bandera.

"Destroy the remnants of his bloody legacy and return the remaining lands to the bosom of the Russian land."

a reply to: watchitburn

Yeah, as opposed to getting rid a of a massively corrupt Russian puppet who was as popular amongst Ukrainians as a turd in a swimming pool?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Exactly what I posted.
The OP was mistaken.
Op intentions aside.

Do you comprehend what he’s saying or are you also reading it wrong?

a reply to: Freeborn
Sounds like European problems. The World Warring European Monarchs/Bankers can deal with their own rubbish. I think the world's been tired of European colonialism and neo-colonialism for too many centuries now. Nobody cares about the feigned concern for a corrupt vassal state that was supposed to be the new mineral darling of the primarily European controlled so called "global market" as they continue to chase diminishing gains in a world where assassinating leaders through bloody popular revolts in order to install friendly puppets for total market domination is no longer just tolerated.

Don't bother clutching the Democracy card, the people of the world know that is a big steaming load of crap as well. Sorry if it brings a tear to your eyes, even though it really does not. Ukraine is not going to survive statehood. After the concessions the rest of the mostly NATO border states will just slowly cannibalize parcels of land as collateral for the debt that was accumulated. The majority of Ukraine's production and infrastructure will also be sold off to foreign capital, with Europe and North American groups getting preferred dibs. I suspect India will also buy a bunch of it, perhaps Turkey.

One should not really be too shocked, it is the exact formula NATO's more powerful member states have been using since the cold war, with particularly good effect in South America and Africa. Ukraine is not special, it gets the same Western Empire treatment South American and African states did from the 1950's - 2015. Overthrown government, installation of puppets, the firesale of infrastructure and production to mostly Western foreign capital, and the crackdown on liberties and subjugation to authoritarianism for its cattle citizens.

They wanted the whole pie, but they only get the crust now that Russia took the good stuff.

a reply to: Vermilion

My comprehension is just fine, thanks .

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

If your reply to me was in error no problem.
If there was a point you wanted to make it didn’t come through.
Speak up lad.

I’ll repost what I said in cases it helps.

Ukraine accepts peace deal and Russia keeps what it has taken.
Then he predicts that “the remaining part of the radicals“(anti-Russia Ukraine factions) who return to power in Ukraine will “sooner or later” plan to take it back from Russia.
Then he says Russia will have to crush them when they do.

“Ukraine will not be allowed to be an independent Country.”

He didn’t say that. You did.
He predicts Ukraine won’t, in time, honor the peace deal.
If that’s the case and he’s correct in his prediction, then Ukraine won’t have an independent country because Ukraine won’t allow themselves to honor the peace deal they made.

Putin himself has repeatedly stated over and over again; there is no such thing as 'Ukraine'.
They simply don't recognise it and at some point they will make another grab at taking it all.

Putin wants to eradicate all traces of Ukrainian heritage and culture and replace it with Russian heritage and culture.
He will then justify his actions by saying 'look its Russian, it belongs to Russia'.

That's how Russia works; banish people to their hinterlands and populate the vacated lands with people of Russian ethnicity, forcibly if need be.
They have done it time and time again throughout history.

If or when they achieve that they will move on to the next piece of the pie.