Putin issues fresh demands to Ukraine to end war

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

Billions to a country defending itself from invasion.

.

How does cash stop Putin. Care to detail how the cash flooding into the Ukraine is being turned into weapons, from who? What is that cash being spent on?

Most of the aid is on the form of direct military supplies. The money sent used to keep Ukraine as a functioning country as its economy has been massively damaged by Putin's invasion.

And I asked how does the US going into further debt, printing more money, depleting US defense equipment ammo, not keeping up with the war production of Russia/forced to a war economy, not keeping up with the industrial output of China and its ability to out produce Naval ships over the US, dumping money and equipment into Ukraine that is losing in a war where they can’t sustain the current rate of losing men help the US’s defensive posture?

Thr equipment sent will be replaced with newer, generally better kit. This would have happened anyway it just bring used rather than mothballed, recycled or destroyed.

The debt isnt an issue for the US economy and its military is stll so far ahead of other countries, before you even include NATO allies that in a conventional conflict Russis would be hopelessly outclassed.

As for China the conflict in Ukraine is an object lesson on how difficult invasions can be even with a land border, never mind one over water.

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

As for China the conflict in Ukraine is an object lesson on how difficult invasions can be even with a land border, never mind one over water.

China is watching the conflict in Ukraine very carefully. Trying to figure out if it pays off to attack Taiwan and push the US out of the Pacific. With Taiwan back under China's rule, the US hegemony in the Pacific would be over. A lot depends on the American resolve.

What encouraged Putin to attack Ukraine was the US humiliating retreat from Afghanistan. The similar retreat from Ukraine will encourage China to attack Taiwan.

originally posted by: twistedpuppy
a reply to: BedevereTheWise

As for China the conflict in Ukraine is an object lesson on how difficult invasions can be even with a land border, never mind one over water.

China is watching the conflict in Ukraine very carefully. Trying to figure out if it pays off to attack Taiwan and push the US out of the Pacific. With Taiwan back under China's rule, the US hegemony in the Pacific would be over. A lot depends on the American resolve.

What encouraged Putin to attack Ukraine was the US humiliating retreat from Afghanistan. The similar retreat from Ukraine will encourage China to attack Taiwan.

The difficulties Russia has faced, some admittedly of their own creation, show how difficult the much more complicated attack on Taiwan would be.

Practically i don't think China is in position to launch a full scale invasion yet. That of course does not preclude more limited or indirect action from China.

a reply to: twistedpuppy

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

As I have pointed out on several occasions (here), China's military is not really postured for offensive actions. If you look at the structure, organization, command and assets, you will quickly see they are very seriously postured for defensive actions. They don't launch big offensive sieges to conquer territory; that's not their style. Instead, China advances very deliberately...and very slowly. Then, they defend occupied areas with absolutely formidable force and resources.

China lets their opponent yield ground, whether this takes years, decades or centuries; they don't care. But for every step their opponent yields, and China subsequently occupies, there is no turning back (from either side). China doesn't move as only a military force. They move as a political force first, psychological force next, administrative force after that (crossing every 't' and dotting every 'i'), and THEN their military occupies the territory.

If you need an example of this, just look at how long China has staged their game on the Spratly Islands. That whole thing has been going on for decades, multiple decades. And, the first thing China did was just start laying political claim to the area. Then, over time, they started playing with competing government's minds. After this they started laying official legal claim to the islands in every court around the world, including the UN. After all this was in place, only then did they start bringing their military in (in the form of their Navy and CB's).

China is very methodical and deliberate how they do things. They are not going to launch some overnight "invasion" anywhere. They know where their strengths are, and more importantly; they know where their weaknesses are.

And just to give you some specific examples (about my previous reply), let's again look at China's activity in the Spratly's.

China started making more noise about the Spratly Islands back in the 80's, but they did nothing logistically. Then in the '90's when Subic Bay Naval Base closed in the Phillipines, China ramped up their activity. I was over in SE Asia working at the time. China started peppering the entire SE ASEAN nations with all sorts of propaganda about how the islands belonged to them. This included Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines, America and many others. Then, there was a full-court press on the Spratly's. When Subic looked like it was going to close over the nukes stored there, China had no barriers to just move in. AND, because of the ineptitude of some of the countries in the regions (i.e. Philippines, Malaysia, etc), they were no match for China in the world forums (like the U.N.)

Now China has all but taken over the Spratly Islands, without a single shot fired. The US doesn't like to admit this, and this is why we over-fly the islands on a daily basis with reconnaissance aircraft, but the fact remains...China has "moved in", and only a nuclear war will pry their butts out of the Spratlys. The US knows this, China knows this...and all of ASEAN knows this.

Case in point.

a reply to: BedevereTheWise

You Always ask for the Moon when you are Negotiating in a Position of Strenght then Finally Settle for what you Wished for in the First place . The Fine Art of Diplomacy at work .

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: BedevereTheWise

You Always ask for the Moon when you are Negotiating in a Position of Strenght then Finally Settle for what you Wished for in the First place . The Fine Art of Diplomacy at work .

This.
Very well said.
There are some knuckleheads here who think Ukraine has the upper hand.
Ukraine has never had the upper hand, nor will they.
They are treading water, biting time until they go under.
It’s a foregone conclusion how this ends unless they make a deal.
They are in the same boat as Hamas.
A sinking dingy full of false hope.
Let’s get real and save the lives of those Ukrainians who actually stuck around to fight.
In 6 months it’ll get even more desperate for them.
Zelensky will be in rehab or gone by then.

Hell at this point keep the war going so many Ukrainians moving to my area it's nuts...and they are ultra conservative. Bet the left will shut the door once they realize it.

originally posted by: Mahogani
a reply to: Imhere

So you're Serbian I gather, which makes you one of the closest allies Russia has. I understand you sentiment.

But let's look at facts.

Kosovo is a sovereign nation with a minority Serb population. No land was taken away from Serbia and given to Muslim extremists, but I can see how as a Serbian you would see it that way. Kosovo was a province even during Yugoslavia, and those same borders from those times are enforced. No borders shifted, nobody took any land.

What happened in the 90s and 2000s is that Serbia went on a genocidal war against Croatia, Bosnia and then Kosovo. The world did pretty much nothing for the first two wars and we all remember the Serb genocide in Srebrenica when they killed and bulldozed 10,000 people into mass graves after executing all of them in a day or two. The ones that tried to run, they chased through the forests and finished them off. Many women and children were raped in these wars. Mass graves are still being unearthed.

So when Serbia went on to Kosovo and started a third war in the same decade, the world stepped in. Clinton approved a bombing campaign of Serbia, in order to get them to back off and end another potential genocide. That lasted about two to three months, but Serbia has been shaken ever since.

If we thought they were an ally of Russia before, that got even worse since then. Due to their intense hatred for the USA after the bombing, Serbia is now pretty much Russia's right arm in Europe. Serbia and Bulgaria are Putin's European centers for propaganda and disinformation. Followed closely by North Macedonia, which also pumps out copious amounts of Russian propaganda.

lol so much for “facts”

Ukraine doesn’t recognize Kosovo for one, and never did.

Your first fail, was pointing fingers at only Serbia regarding “genocide”

It’s actually hilarious how you conveniently left out both Bosnian Muslims and Croatia’s atrocities.

You had Muslims there with Al qaeda connections. Who hated both Croatians and Serbians.

Croatia’s infamous “Ustashi” also. Google them.

Who have Nazi SS roots/had their own concentration camps in ww2. And even raised the hairs on the SS with Himmler quoting it. Who later in the 80s/90s gathered villages/towns in Bosnia and parts of Croatia etc killing both Muslims and Serbians.

Everyone knows that the Yugoslavia war was a clusterf*ck of different religions and history etc. Comparing catholic and orthodox depends on the person but obviously Croatians and Serbians had a history for decades.

Now, regarding Kosovo as a province. That was made after ww2 when Tito drew his own borders when Yugoslavia was established.

Clearly, Kosovo has centuries old Serbian monasteries. The Serbian Population started dropping after ww2. But it’s still always been part of Serbia on the maps for centuries.

Period.

That’s like having Frankfurt Germany getting an influx of muslim refugees. And then USA deciding “well it’s mostly Muslim now so let’s just give the Muslim refugees their own country I guess”

lol

Look at Crimea, Kruschev gave Ukraine Crimea as a gift in the 50’s.

Doesn’t mean Russia can’t get it back. And it did.

For others, it’s only convenient to have things stay rewritten as long as it’s in their favor too. Like stripping Kosovo from Serbia. And Ukraine continuing having the gifted Crimea away from Russia.

Well, Crimea had a good run under Ukraine for what 70 years?

Kosovo won’t ever relax easy either. Because it’s not theirs.

It was stolen and gifted by the Clintons and Tony Blair. Along with the owl Madeline Albright. Which Victoria Nuland took after now regarding Ukraine LOL

You’re also very incorrect about Serbia hating USA. They’re smart enough to separate some past politicians from the people and country itself etc.

I don’t like Tony Blair. Does that mean I hate the British or the country? No. Because that would be stupid.

originally posted by: Vermilion

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: BedevereTheWise

You Always ask for the Moon when you are Negotiating in a Position of Strenght then Finally Settle for what you Wished for in the First place . The Fine Art of Diplomacy at work .

This.
Very well said.
There are some knuckleheads here who think Ukraine has the upper hand.
Ukraine has never had the upper hand, nor will they.
They are treading water, biting time until they go under.
It’s a foregone conclusion how this ends unless they make a deal.
They are in the same boat as Hamas.
A sinking dingy full of false hope.
Let’s get real and save the lives of those Ukrainians who actually stuck around to fight.
In 6 months it’ll get even more desperate for them.
Zelensky will be in rehab or gone by then.

Fear Not for the Unknown Future of Ukraine , for Mr. Z will be sitting in that chair Again , and this Time he will BEND........

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise


Thr equipment sent will be replaced with newer, generally better kit.

Really? When? Like to cite how the US restocking is going compared to China’s and Russia’s military buildup.

INDOPACOM Boss: China ‘Soon to Be World’s Largest Air Force’

March 28, 2024 | By Unshin Lee Harpley

www.airandspaceforces.com...

China. Not supplying a war, building and production increasing.

USA. Supplying weapons depleting own arsenal, not increasing production, and dependent on China and Russia for materials because of EPA and not in my backyard crowed at home.


If we go to war over Taiwan, Taiwan isn’t a NATO country. We probably will not get NATO backing.

a reply to: Lazy88

" North Korea Reportedly Sending Shipments Of 5 Million Artillery Shells To Russia "

" North Korea has recently sent containers to Russia that could hold as many as 4.8 million artillery shells, South Korean Defense Minister Shin Won-sik said in an interview with Bloomberg published on June 14th. Seoul spotted at least 10,000 containers being shipped from North Korea to Russia, according to Won-sik. Pyongyang has also sent dozens of ballistic missiles that Moscow troops have launched against Ukraine.

To put this in perspective, the US has sent only 300,000 artillery shells to Ukraine (most of them maintained since the 1980s in a reserve stockpile meant for Israel) and is straining to meet a manufacturing quota of 100,000 shells per month by 2025. The disparity between the production of armaments between NATO and Russia (and its allies) has proven to be immense. From artillery to armor to ammunition, NATO simply cannot keep up."



www.zerohedge.com...



See , this is what Happens when you have Morons in Government and the Military making Decisions that can Effect the Lives of Millions of People . The Escalation of Hostilities in Ukraine due to the Lack of , or an Unwillingness for , Peaceful Negotiations could Escalate into a Nuclear Conflict all because of the Sheer Contempt the US and it's NATO Stooges have for Civil discourse in Settling differences at the Peace Table .

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: Boomer1947

Are you saying that Trump and Putin are having a bromance? And that Trump would help Putin?



Possibly.

I don't think anybody thinks they have a bromance.

Nobody.

a reply to: Mahogani

This is Supposed to be Funny ?

a reply to: yuppa

Yup Yuppa,

End fractional reserve banking and bring back the gold standard.

Also of note, the federal funds reserve rate has been at 0% since march of 2020.

That's the percentage of our deposits banks are required to keep on hand.

a reply to: watchitburn

exactly.

a reply to: Mahogani

I don't think anybody thinks they have a bromance.

Lot of tension in some of those conservations. At least Trump had the courage to pick up the phone. As for how Biden does foreign policy:

originally posted by: OdinnsPapa
Hell at this point keep the war going so many Ukrainians moving to my area it's nuts...and they are ultra conservative. Bet the left will shut the door once they realize it.

I'm sure the democrats got to know by now that Ukrainians are very conservative, its one of the things that always confused me.

a reply to: watchitburn

No need for physical when you're implementing a digital version.

Lol.

Here's "Ukraine" winning!!

For example, on Sunday The Washington Post highlighted that Ukraine has resorted to releasing nearly 3,000 hardened criminals and convicts from prisons to serve in the military. The plan has immediately been met with pushback and controversy. "No one has trust in this, but we need it," one military official involved in the policy told WaPo.

www.zerohedge.com...

Yeah, "winning".... Hahahaha!!

Western boots on the ground? Try filling them first! Good luck with that. I don't think there's a country on earth with people that willingly want to volunteer to go fight for "Ukraine". Not one.

Joining the military right now has got to be the stupidest decision anyone can make with their lives.

Americans won't stand for none of this crap and no one is going to volunteer unless they're severely retarded or heavily bribed.
x.com...

Think about this hypothetical incentive: a new ev truck or car with every enlistment with guaranteed home ownership when signing a 2-3 year enlistment contract. No one is buying them and the market is saturated with inventory, both EV's and homes. There's a shortage of "affordable" housing, not a shortage of housing in general.

They better get clever with their expanded enticement schemes because I don't see it happening and Ukraine IS going to lose no matter how much they throw at it.

The MIC will win either way though so that's good, right? For the economy at least, right??

Something about we spend $3 and get $2 back or some BS ...
🙄