The Truth about the Jehovah Witness

I have found I can talk with them some, but they are too much into condemning those not following God properly as their version of religion for my upbringing. I am about remembering the parables. Especially the wheat and the tares. I am not damaging the wheat trying to pull up the tares, and I let them know as a Methodist is taught that we are supposed to be about loving the sinner while not loving the sin. Forgiveness like the Lord's prayer says will be given as we give it to others.

Apply the golden rule and proclaim the Blood of the Lamb, they just don't want to argue with one from the "cult" of love thy neighbor as thyself. They scoot on off the porch to the next house.

The "United" Methodist church has turned away from some basic principles and the Methodist have split from that one. Proving that "religion" will not save a one of us, but faith will.

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: nugget1

I agree with almost everything you posted. Many believe that one of greatest gifts God gave man was free will. The ability to choose. Nothing is forced, or should be. The Bible is a guide, believe what it says, or don’t. I believe it. That doesn’t mean I am superior to anyone because I do.

Groups like JW want you to relinquish that free will to them. They don’t allow you think for yourself, or to question anything they say. How can this possibly be a good thing. I wouldn’t even think of forcing my beliefs on another person.

JW really get under my skin because they claim to be Christians. They concocted their own Bible, because without those changes, everything falls apart for them. Dishonest at the very least. It angers me because I know what a Christian is, I am a Christian.

As far as your parting statement, I really can’t say. What I believe is that Christ is a door to heaven, the largest and easiest to get thru. I found this one, why would I look for another that may not exist.

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: lostinspace

I’d rather see this from a non JW source. It’s not that I don’t trust them, but I don’t trust them. Just sayin.

A part of the clothing a Christian is to wear is love:

"Accordingly, as God’s chosen ones, holy and loved, clothe yourselves with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, humility, mildness, and patience."-Colossians 3:2.

The kindly qualities of love should radiant from a Christian. Did you notice that among these are kindness and mildness and patience? Notice some of the other qualities love is:

"Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."-1 Corinthians 13:4-7.

Love is not critical. It wouldn't for example say, I don't trust you (especially when there are no grounds for such a negative judgement). Rather it is patient and kind. And it hopes all things and believes all things. When you are told something from someone who loves God you should have the kindly quality of love that would allow you to believe what that person is saying. And even when a person may be wrong, love would certainly give them the benefit of the doubt that they are trying earnestly to do what they know is right. Love is not overly critical, it is not suspicious. It doesn't look for bad reports from people who are liars. And of course it believes what the holy spirit tells us, especially when it leads us in all the ways of the truth by means of the cleansing bath of the word.

Love also hopes all things. So love allows a person do endure with hope that the other person will do what is right. An overly critical spirit belies a spiritually weak condition. Such was the case of David. If you recall when given the story of a man who had selfishly taken the lamb of a neighbor to eat, when that lamb was the only one of the poor neighbor's while the man himself was rich and had many, David condemned that man to death! But the law did not stipulate that. David was overly critical. And then Nathan revealed to David that the very man was David himself and the bad act he had committed by committing adultery with Bathsheba, and then trying to cover it up and going so far as to murder her husband. He was indeed sick spiritually!

An overly critical spirit belies a sick person spiritually. It is a very serious condition to be in!

You have been given proof from the source of our motives and intentions. Even while you yourself have condemned and accused, and wrongly so, and without proof, of deception. Things that are far from a healthy and sound spiritual person. You have been overly critical, a name-caller, a doubter, a disbeliever in God's word, a scoffer, and accuser, all these things are what Satan and his demons are busy doing! These are not traits of a healthy person spiritually, rather one that is quite sick indeed, if not spiritually dead.

Cloth yourself with the tender affection of compassion, with kindness, mildness, and patience. Do not be overly critical. Do not disbelieve or impune bad motives. And above all when reasoned with from the scriptures, allow God's holy spirit to mold your way of thinking. Be yourself absorbed in God's word daily, proving to yourself if you are in the faith or not.


Discern Satan’s Lies

a reply to: randomuser2034




If it isn't done with love, they are not ripping up the wheat trying to get the tares. The vitriol in their comments when I talk to them doesn't say love like I think God wants us to have when we talk to others.

originally posted by: Justoneman
a reply to: randomuser2034

If it isn't done with love, they are not ripping up the wheat trying to get the tares. The vitriol in their comments when I talk to them doesn't say love like I think God wants us to have when we talk to others.

I will share something with you. Something that brings me great comfort, and I hope perhaps will give help you. I was wondering to myself, and notice, I didn't say this in a prayer was just wondering, is there anywhere in all the scriptures that tells me personally that God loves me? I know we are to love God, and I know that God loves us. For we are told "God is love." But is there anywhere that God says "I love you." And later on the spirit lead me to this scripture:

"From far away Jehovah appeared to me and said:
“I have loved you with an everlasting love.
That is why I have drawn you to me with loyal love."
-Jeremiah 31:3.

The holy spirit lead me to understand God was answering my question quite directly. And one I had made to myself silently, and not in prayer. I realized that God was listening in on my thoughts, and was moved enough to show me.

I have no doubt in my mind that the true God is love, and he loves us with an everlasting love. And he wants us to be like him and to love each other. And that is my prayer and has been my prayer to be more like my Father in the heavens who loves, and if I can help others to feel that love let them know that it shines down from the heavenly throne above.

a reply to: randomuser2034

Love is great, no denying. Trust in the JW is something far far different. You create mistrust by how you deal with others.

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: randomuser2034

Love is great, no denying. Trust in the JW is something far far different. You create mistrust by how you deal with others.

Not only is displaying love great it is the identifying mark of Christ's true disciples:

"By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”-John 13:35.

Topcraft we live deep into the last days of this system of things. It is going out the door. And as the last days have past prophecy concerning this time of the end have come to pass as well. Including the love of the greater number growing cold, and wicked men and imposters advancing from bad to worse.

"Because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold."-Matthew 24:12.

The influence God has in our lives should be a stabilizing one. Giving us confidence and peace, trust and joy. True Satan is hard at work trying to undermine the Christian congregation to sow dissension and division, distrust, hate, discord. When we pay attention to false stories and slanders we are allowing Satan to do just that. And the world is rife with it.

A Christian combats such negative influences by clothing themselves with love, the tender affections of compassion of humility and kindness. It prevents you from looking critically at others. If you were in the first century and heard rumor about Jesus Christ would you want to see for yourself if they were true or not? Or would you do as you are doing now, and want to turn to his haters and opposers to find out about him. Remember the religious leaders who hated Jesus called him demon-possessed, a liar, a blasphemer, accused him of not observing the Sabbath. They called him a glutton, and a man given to wine. A person who associated with sinners, prostitutes, and tax collectors. And they eventually incited the crowds against Jesus and the Roman rulers to have him put to death on the charges of sedition. And later on after Jesus was resurrected, they paid off the guard guarding his body to say that some of his followers had sunk in in the night and stole his body away.

Do you think it would really have been wise to go to Jesus' haters to learn about him? No doubt many Jews were fooled because of those religious leaders whom Jesus condemned. In fact he said they were sinning so gravely that they had trespassed against the holy spirit, a sin with which there is no forgives on into eternity. And then said that they themselves were liable to Gehenna and then made proselytes more liable to Gehenna than they were. (That is the second death from which there is no hope of a resurrection.)

Jehovah in his love is gently calling you to repentance. And he is greater than our heart and knows all things. So whatever our hearts may condemn us in he knows and can forgive.

"“‘For I well know the thoughts that I am thinking toward you,’ declares Jehovah, ‘thoughts of peace, and not of calamity, to give you a future and a hope. And you will call me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you.’"-Jeremiah 29:11-12.

"By this we will know that we originate with the truth, and we will assure our hearts before him regarding whatever our hearts may condemn us in, because God is greater than our hearts and knows all things."-1 John 3:19-20.

Often time I look at people who have a hard time showing kindness to others and wonder what type of life they lead to make them that way, what type of upbringing. But God certainly knows all of these factors. And he is kind and merciful toward the sinner. He knows what molded you into the person you are. And there have been truly people who have had no love in their lives, and only been shown abuse by those in authority all their lives. People without parents, or loveless parents, growing up in a cruel heartless world of Satan's design. Jehovah's love can overcome all of that. And his real tender affection and compassionate pity, can cure the worst of wounds. One can find confidence in a truly just and merciful and loving Father in Jehovah God, this is his plea even to the ruthlessly wicked:


"Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Remove your evil deeds from my sight;
Stop doing bad.
Learn to do good, seek justice,
Correct the oppressor,
Defend the rights of the fatherless child,
And plead the cause of the widow.”
“Come, now, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
They will be made as white as snow;
Though they are as red as crimson cloth,
They will become like wool."
-Isaiah 1:16-18.

You can have the full assurance that Jehovah is with his named Witnesses today. And just as in the past all of God's followers fell short of his glory and sinned and make mistakes. They do have the identifying mark of true Christianity, they have the genuine heart-felt love among each other that is lacking among the nations and religions of this world. It is the 10-ton elephant in the room. It is this love that draws people to Jehovah's organization and makes them stand out as separate and different from the world.

The prophet said that people would willingly pay out money for what is not water and for what is not bread. That is they would give their resources to their religious leaders that have NO benefit, no spiritual food and water with which to nourish their parishioners. Yet God is has life-giving water and offers it free of charge and invites anyone and everyone to come and drink from it:

"Come, all you thirsty ones, come to the water!
You with no money, come, buy and eat!
Yes, come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost.
Why do you keep paying out money for what is not bread,
And why spend your earnings for what brings no satisfaction?
Listen intently to me, and eat what is good,
And you will find great delight in what is truly rich."
-Isaiah 55:1-2.

And anyone that is freely taking of this life-giving water is also commissioned to invite others to drink of life's water free!

"And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free."-Revelation 22:17.

Come! And drink of life's water free of charge and find refreshment for your soul.

Unfailing Love

Brotherly Love

originally posted by: Justoneman
...and I let them know as a Methodist is taught that we are supposed to be about loving the sinner while not loving the sin.

"[Love] rejoices with the truth", says 1 Corinthians 13:6 (see my signature as well). Reproving someone with truths from God's Word, the Bible, is an expression of that type of love described there at 1 Cor 13:4-7. Since the Scriptures are inspired of God, all reproof solidly based on them is really reproof from him. (2Ti 3:16) Jehovah’s reproof is an expression of love, not to be abhorred or rejected. (Pr 3:11, 12)

"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2Tim 3:16,17)

With that sentiment in mind, the doctrine of the Trinity, as taught by the Methodist Church as well, is a false/incorrect teaching of man. All quoted scriptures in the video below are from the KJV:

Trinity Doctrine, A False Teaching Of Man, Council of Nicaea

Coming back to 2 Tim 3:16,17...

Her Clergyman’s View of the Bible (Awake!—1971)

IN Texas a witness of Jehovah made a return call on a woman who had accepted literature explaining the Bible. The woman had read it and was moved to ask whether Jehovah’s witnesses believe that all of the Holy Bible is inspired of God. When the Witness replied that they do, the woman then went on to say that her Methodist clergyman had told the congregation to which she belonged that he did not believe all the Bible. For example, among other things, he claimed that the flood in Noah’s time, the virgin birth of Jesus Christ and the miracles recorded in the Bible were not true. Yet she noted that he would give a sermon based on a scripture dealing with the flood of Noah’s day.

“How are we to feel about a sermon like that?” she observed. “He is teaching us to believe in something that he has already told us to be untrue!” However, this sincere woman is no longer confused about this matter. She is learning from her Bible study with the Witnesses that “all Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial.”​—2 Tim. 3:16.

Have you heard your minister say that the Bible is not true or is filled with myths? Do you believe this? Why not investigate this matter for yourself? Jehovah’s witnesses will be glad to share with you evidence that the Bible is truthfully the Word of God.

Now if we're talking "myths"/false stories (2 Tim 4:3,4 quoted many times in my commentary before), here are a few quite popular in Christendom (I haven't checked if they are all taught in the Methodist Church, but I recon quite a few):

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal (One Myth Leads to Another)
Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell
Myth 3: All Good People Go to Heaven
Myth 4: God Is a Trinity
Myth 5: Mary Is the Mother of God
Myth 6: God Approves of the Use of Images and Icons in Worship

...

REJECT MYTHS, STICK TO THE TRUTH

What can we conclude from this brief review of myths that are still taught by many churches? These “tales [Greek, myʹthos] artfully spun” cannot rival the simple and comforting truths of the Bible.​—2 Peter 1:16, The New English Bible.

Therefore, with an open mind, do not hesitate to compare with God’s Word​—the source of truth—​what you have been taught. (John 17:17) Then, this promise will prove true in your case: “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”​—John 8:32.

The same word, myʹthos, is used at 2 Timothy 4:3,4 (at the end). For many people in this world it is difficult to accept the truths and beneficial teaching (2Ti 3:16) from God's Word that contradicts the myths/"false stories" they have been taught by their clergy.

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

“So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14)

Coming back to the doctrine of the Trinity, several reputable sources admit that it originates from (or traces back to) pagan philosophy, for example:

According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.

What does the Bible say about human philosophy?

“Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;” “We have much to say about him, and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. For although by now* [Lit., “in view of the time.”] you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” (Col 2:8; Hebrews 5:11-14)

“However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron.” (1 Timothy 4:1,2).

Knowledge (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)

...
Knowledge (gno'sis) is put in a very favorable light in the Christian Greek Scriptures. However, not all that men may call “knowledge” is to be sought, because philosophies and views exist that are “falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1Ti 6:20) ...
... Thus Paul wrote about some who were learning (taking in knowledge) “yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge [...] of truth.” (2Ti 3:6, 7)

“... having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” (2Ti 3:5-7)

“Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called ‘knowledge.’ By making a show of such knowledge, some have deviated from the faith.

May the undeserved kindness be with you.” (1Ti 6:20,21)

...
How does God view the “wisdom” offered by human philosophy?

1 Cor. 1:19-25: “It is written: ‘I will make the wisdom of the wise men perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual men I will shove aside.’ Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness [as it appears to the world] of what is preached to save those believing. . . . Because a foolish thing of God [as the world views it] is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God [as the world may see it] is stronger than men.” (Such a viewpoint on God’s part is certainly not arbitrary or unreasonable. He has provided in the Bible, the most widely circulated book in the world, a clear statement of his purpose. He has sent his witnesses to discuss it with all who will listen. How foolish for any creature to think that he has wisdom greater than that of God!)

Source: Philosophy (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

originally posted by: Justoneman
... and I let them know as a Methodist is taught that we are supposed to be about loving the sinner while not loving the sin. Forgiveness like the Lord's prayer says will be given as we give it to others.

Apply the golden rule ... love thy neighbor as thyself.

Watching the World (Awake!—1976)

...

Clergy on the Warpath

◆ English Catholic priest Thomas Tryers, serving in Ghana, “has declared at Tamale that guerrilla warfare is the ‘quickest, surest and safest way’ of gaining the total liberation of Africa,” reports the Ghanaian Times. The paper notes that Tryers was “recently awarded the Grand Medal for his contribution to education and missionary work.”

Similarly, an African Methodist bishop who has vowed to “carry the war of liberation to the bitter end,” cited pressing “liberation” work to excuse himself from a recent world conference of United Methodist bishops. Conference leaders cautiously noted that their colleague’s turn to violence probably came “out of his commitment and obedience to the Christian faith.” One said that in spite of theological objections, the point comes “when no longer can an armed struggle be avoided” to free “oppressed people.” Was that Christ’s way?

Is that 'loving your neighbour as yourself'? Is it 'forgiving your enemies'? The Bible says: “If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.” (1 John 4:20) Jesus even said: “Continue to love your enemies.” (Matthew 5:44) How many religions can you think of whose members engage in war or do military service (either for a government or as part of some 'freedom fighter' group in some "war of liberation")? In contrast, God's Word describes Christians as such:

“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare* [“We do not wage warfare.” Lit., “we are not doing military service.” ...; Lat., non . . . mi·li·ta'mus.] according to what we are in the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God;” (2 Cor 10:3-5)

"Conscientious objection" is the legal term for refusing military service. Regarding Christian neutrality, the New Catholic Encyclopedia asserts: “Conscientious objection is morally indefensible.” An article in the Reformierte Presse states that a report by African Rights, a human rights organization, on the 1994 Rwandan genocide established the participation of all churches, “with the exception of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

According to the fmwm.org website (Free Methodists World Missions) there are 645 FM Churches, with a membership of 170,728 in Rwanda. Another source (Rwanda inspirer) says:

As of now, the church has over 500,000 Christians.

The Methodist Church is part of the expression “all churches”. I only took statistics from the Free Methodist Church, but in 1970 there were already 188 denominations of Methodist Churches.

The commercialization of religion has led to “corruption, immorality and other forms of indiscipline in our churches,” declared the patriarch of the Methodist Church of Nigeria in 1986. He admitted, according to Nigeria’s Daily Times, that the church contributed to a wave of crime in Nigerian society by “soliciting and receiving gifts from criminals and corrupt public officers.” He also said that the misbehavior of religious leaders and members had turned the church into “a place for mischief-makers, cheats, and immoral acts.”

Is that love (the behaviour that is described)? Is it just a rumor? Is it slanderous if this patriarch of the Methodist Church of Nigeria feels the need to speak up about it, address the issue?

1921—One Hundred Years Ago

...

Brother J. H. Hoskin, who lived in Canada, witnessed fearlessly despite opposition. In the spring of 1921, he encountered a Methodist minister. Brother Hoskin began the conversation by saying: “We should talk agreeably on the Scriptures, and even if we differ on some things, we can agree to disagree and part as friends.” But that did not happen. Brother Hoskin recounted: “We had talked only a few minutes when [the minister] struck the door so hard that I thought its large glass would fall to the floor.”

“Why don’t you go to the heathen and talk to them?” the minister shouted. Brother Hoskin held his tongue, but as he left, he thought to himself, ‘I felt that I was talking to one!’

When the minister delivered his sermon the next day, the attack continued. “He warned his flock of me, telling the people that I was the worst fraud that ever struck that town and that I ought to be shot,” Brother Hoskin recalled. Not deterred in the least, he continued preaching and had good success. He said: “I never had a more glorious time canvassing. Some of the people even exclaimed, ‘I know that you are a man of God!’ and asked if they could help me so that I might not want for anything.”

Is inciting one's flock to hatred and violence (as described in the bolded part), an expression of the type of love described at 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, which is referred to in all of Jesus' commandments to love one's neighbour or even one's perceived enemy? Is it 'loving the sinner' (as possibly perceived as such by someone possibly thinking they are better, more righteous, more Christian), as you put it? Does it sound like forgiveness is high on his priority list?

“You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” With that he called the crowd near and said to them: “Listen and get the sense of it: 11 It is not what enters into a man’s mouth that defiles him, but it is what comes out of his mouth that defiles him.” (Jesus at Matthew 15:7-11)

Ephesians 4:25-27,29,31,32

25 Therefore, now that you have put away deceit, each one of you speak truth with his neighbor, because we are members belonging to one another. 26 Be wrathful, but do not sin; do not let the sun set while you are still angry; 27 do not give the Devil an opportunity.
29 Let a rotten word not come out of your mouth, but only what is good for building up as the need may be, to impart what is beneficial to the hearers.
31 Put away from yourselves every kind of malicious bitterness, anger, wrath, screaming, and abusive speech, as well as everything injurious. 32 But become kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, freely forgiving one another just as God also by Christ freely forgave you.

It's one thing to say it, it's another to actually do it. Especially when someone ticks you off because they are telling you something you do not want to hear, because it's not tickling your ears as per 2 Tim 4:3,4, you cannot really "listen to" it as Jesus describes at John 8:42 (footnote says "or accept"), because "you have become dull in your hearing" (Heb 5:11) and 'your heart has grown unreceptive' (Mt 13:13-15) to "the sayings of God" (John 8:47).

Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.” (John 8:42-47)

That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’ (Matthew 13:13-15)

originally posted by: whereislogic
... I only took statistics from the Free Methodist Church, but in 1970 there were already 188 denominations of Methodist Churches.

The Broad Road of Religious Divisions (1953)

WHY so many religions? Within the United States alone there are twenty-three kinds of Baptists, twenty-one kinds of Methodists, twenty divisions among the Lutherans, thirteen brands of Mennonites, ten kinds of Presbyterians, and a whole handful of Churches of God. Thirty-nine religions admit such a lack of unity that they say doctrine is all up to the individual, apparently assuming he knows more than the scholars, or that his contradicting idea may be inspired by the spirit. One authority put it this way: “If one must speak of denominations and sects, of organizations here and there, of movements now and then, how can one speak of Christianity in the United States? Is not this religious chaos . . . all spots and jumps?”

Yes, why such division? The Bible is just one book. Average editions contain 1,000 to 1,300 pages, and that is not exceedingly large. Webster’s Dictionary contains 3,000; the Encyclopædia Britannica, 24,000; the Harvard Classics, 22,000. Yet on the basis of the Bible’s 1,000 pages rests the foundation of more than 230 of America’s more than 250 religions, or one denomination for every five pages in that book. Now, since the Bible does not contradict itself on doctrine every five pages, why are there so many different religions claiming it as their guide? Are their scholars so ignorant they cannot read these 1,000 pages to agree, or are there other reasons?

Some reasons for this division have been petty, others practically ridiculous, few of them Christian. A main cause has been man’s determination to make his religion over to suit him, instead of making himself over to suit God. These attempted “improvements” were long ago foretold: “Men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves,” and, “There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them [Christ].” (Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Pet. 2:1, NW) In evidence that this happened, The Kingdom of God in America says current religion “represents not so much the impact of the gospel upon the New World as the use and adaptation of the gospel by the new society for its own purposes”. Unity of doctrine is gone, and that loss of unity represents a loss of true Christianity.

Religious boundaries have been frequently laid out along the political and economic map. William Warren Sweet in The Story of Religions in America points out that the most important and far-reaching of the schisms in American churches occurred over Negro slavery, and says: “It was not until church members had become wealthy cotton growers, that the churches ceased to denounce the institution. At the adoption of the Constitution all the churches were unanimous in their opposition to slavery; by the opening of the Civil War the churches had become a bulwark of American slavery.” So, with religion not molding the people, but being molded by them; not influencing the world, but being influenced by it, it is little wonder that it has spread out in so many different and conflicting directions.

HISTORY OF DIVISIONS

The first settlers brought with them a great number of religions. There were Anglicans, Puritans, Pilgrims, Scotch Presbyterians, Calvinists, Lutherans, Quakers, Baptists, Methodists, and others. But the pioneer was a rugged individualist, independent and determined to go his own way in religion as well as in politics. He took this already confused stock of religions and severed and split them into myriads of smaller groups. “Denominations such as the Dunkers and Mennonites, which were of European origin, when transplanted to America divided and redivided as they moved westward into the undeveloped frontier,” says Sweet, who describes this frontier religion as “warped though it often was, almost beyond recognition”. The foundations for the new religions were, therefore, based not on sound doctrine but on this warped frontier viewpoint. While getting farther and farther from true worship, the number of sects grew and grew.

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Ever heard of 'divide and conquer'? It's the favorite tactic of "the ruler of this world" (Jn 12:31) and "god of this system of things" (2Cor 4:4).

Why Are There So Many Christian Denominations? (Bible Questions Answered)

The Bible’s answer

People have used the teachings of Jesus Christ to form a variety of “Christian” denominations. However, the Bible indicates that there is only one true form of Christianity. Consider just three reasons for reaching this conclusion.

1. Jesus said that he taught “the truth,” and early Christians referred to their religion as “the truth.” (John 8:​32; 2 Peter 2:2; 2 John 4; 3 John 3) These expressions show that those who promote doctrines that conflict with Jesus’ teachings are not practicing a true form of Christianity.

2. The Bible teaches that Christians “should all speak in agreement.” (1 Corinthians 1:​10) However, many Christian denominations disagree on teachings as basic as what it means to be a Christian. Such denominations cannot all be right.​—1 Peter 2:​21.

3. Jesus prophesied that many would claim to be Christian yet fail to obey his commands and that he would reject such ones. (Matthew 7:​21-​23; Luke 6:​46) Some people would be misled by religious leaders who corrupt true worship to further their own interests. (Matthew 7:​15) However, other people would actually prefer imitation Christianity because it would tell them what they want to hear rather than the truth from the Bible.​—2 Timothy 4:​3, 4.

In his illustration of the wheat and the weeds, Jesus foretold a great rebellion (apostasy) against true Christianity. (Matthew 13:24-​30, 36-​43) For a long period of time, true Christians and false Christians would be indistinguishable. Just as Jesus foretold, the apostasy flourished after the apostles died. (Acts 20:29, 30) While apostate teachings may vary, the various forms of imitation Christianity have all “deviated from the truth.”​—2 Timothy 2:​18.

Jesus also predicted that the distinction between true and false Christianity would eventually become clear. This has happened in our time, during the “conclusion of a system of things.”​—Matthew 13:30, 39.

Coming back to your remark about not damaging the wheat as you're trying to pull the tares (weeds), of course if you perceive the wheat as tares/weeds (because of those doing what is described at Isa 5:20, painting good as bad and vice versa, light as darkness and vice versa), you will end up doing exactly that (damaging the wheat). Can you really be sure if that is not the case (1Thess 5:21) with the amount of deception being put out there by "the ruler of this world" and "god of this system of things", "who is misleading the entire inhabited earth" (Rev 12:9) and who "did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie." (John 8:44) So he's got some experience in deceiving mankind, and he's gotten very good at it over the millennia, don't underestimate that kind and so many years of experience.

“So under the present circumstances, I say to you, do not meddle with these men, but let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; 39 but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself.” (Acts 5:38,39)

Continuing from my previous comment...

Part 17—1530 onward—Protestantism—A Reformation? (Religion’s Future in View of Its Past; Awake!—1989)

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God’s Word Given Special Status

Protestant reformers emphasized the importance of the Scriptures. They rejected traditions, although Martin Marty, senior editor of The Christian Century magazine, says that during the past century, “more and more Protestants have been willing to see a relationship between the Bible and tradition.” This was not true of their “ancestors in faith,” however. For them “the Bible held a special status, and tradition or papal authority could never match it.”

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... The Protestant Reformation was also “the occasion for enormous evils,” says the Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics, adding: “The age of the Jesuits and the Inquisition was brought to an end . . . only to be followed by something lower still. If there was much honest ignorance in the Middle Ages, there is much organized falsehood now.”

“Organized Falsehood”​—In What Respect?

It was “organized falsehood” because Protestantism promised doctrinal reform but failed to deliver. Often, it was church policy, not the untruthfulness of doctrine, that raised the ire of reformers. For the most part, Protestantism retained Catholicism’s pagan-tainted religious ideas and practices. How? An outstanding example is the Trinity doctrine, which is the main basis for membership in the Protestant World Council of Churches. Adherence to this doctrine is very strong, although The Encyclopedia of Religion admits that ‘exegetes and theologians today agree that nowhere in the Bible is the doctrine explicitly taught.’

Did Protestantism reform a corrupt form of church government? No. Instead, it “carried over authority patterns from medieval Catholicism,” says Martin Marty, and “simply broke from Roman Catholic establishment to form Protestant versions.”

Protestantism also promised to restore “the oneness in the faith.” However, this Biblical promise went unfulfilled with the development of many divisive Protestant sects.​—Ephesians 4:13.

Organized Confusion​—Why?

Today, in 1989, Protestantism has crumbled into so many sects and denominations that it would be impossible to determine the total number. Before a person could finish counting, new groups would have been formed or others would have disappeared.

Nevertheless, the World Christian Encyclopedia does the “impossible” by dividing Christendom (as of 1980) into “20,780 distinct Christian denominations,” the vast majority of which are Protestant.* [This reference work, published in 1982, had projected that by 1985 there would be 22,190, saying: “The present net increase is 270 new denominations each year (5 new ones a week).”] They include 7,889 classic Protestant groups, 10,065 mostly Protestant nonwhite indigenous religions, 225 Anglican denominations, and 1,345 marginal Protestant groups.

In explanation of how this confusing diversity, called both “a sign of health and of sickness,” came about, the book Protestant Christianity mentions that it “may be due to human creativity and human finitude; even more it may be due to prideful men who think too highly of their own outlook upon life.”

How true! Without giving sufficient consideration to divine truth, prideful men offer new alternatives for finding salvation, liberation, or fulfillment. Religious pluralism finds no support in the Bible. [whereislogic: there is that word again "liberation". Remember what that Methodist bishop said about his "war of liberation"?]

In promoting religious pluralism, Protestantism seems to imply that God has no set guidelines according to which he is to be worshiped. Is such organized confusion consistent with a God of truth, who the Bible says “is a God, not of disorder, but of peace”? Is the often heard Protestant go-to-the-church-of-your-choice mentality any different from the independent thinking that led Adam and Eve into erroneous belief and subsequent trouble?​—1 Corinthians 14:33; see Genesis 2:9; 3:17-19.

Ignoring the Bible’s Special Status

Despite the special status assigned the Bible by early reformers, Protestant theologians later fathered higher criticism and “thus treated the biblical text,” says Marty, “as they would any other ancient literary text.” They granted “no special status to the inspiration of biblical authors.”

By calling into question the divine inspiration of the Bible, therefore, Protestant theologians undermined faith in what the Reformers considered to be the very foundation of Protestantism. This opened the way for skepticism, freethinking, and rationalism. Not without reason, many scholars view the Reformation as a major cause of modern secularism.

Caught Up in Politics

The above-mentioned fruitage is clear evidence that despite the possibly good intentions of individual reformers and their followers, Protestantism did not restore true Christianity. Instead of promoting peace through Christian neutrality, it became embroiled in nationalism.

This was apparent as soon as the division of Christendom into Catholic and Protestant nations became reality. Catholic and Protestant forces trailed blood across the face of continental Europe in a dozen or more wars. The New Encyclopædia Britannica calls them “Wars of Religion kindled by the German and Swiss Reformation of the 1520s.” The most noted of these was the Thirty Years’ War (1618-48), which involved both political and religious differences between German Protestants and Catholics.

Blood flowed in England too. Between 1642 and 1649, King Charles I waged war against Parliament. Since most of the King’s opponents belonged to the Puritan wing of the Church of England, the war is sometimes referred to as the Puritan Revolution. It ended with the King’s execution and the establishment of a short-lived Puritan commonwealth under Oliver Cromwell. Although this English Civil War was not foremost a religious struggle, historians agree that religion was a determining factor in selecting sides.

During this war, the religious group known as Friends, or Quakers, came into being. The group met with strong opposition from its Protestant “brothers.” Several hundred members died in prison, and thousands suffered indignities. But the movement spread, even to the British colonies in America, where in 1681 Charles II issued a charter to William Penn to found a Quaker colony, which later became the state of Pennsylvania.

The Quakers were not unique in seeking converts abroad, for other religions had done so before. Now, however, after the Protestant “Innovation,” Catholics, together with a large number of Protestant groups, began increasing their efforts to bring Christ’s message of truth and peace to “unbelievers.” But how ironic! As “believers,” Catholics and Protestants were unable to agree on a common definition of divine truth. And they surely failed to demonstrate brotherly peace and unity. In view of this situation, what could be expected “When ‘Christians’ and ‘Heathens’ Met”? Read installment 18 in our next issue.

Early Children of the Reformation

ANGLICAN COMMUNION: 25 autonomous churches and 6 other bodies ...

BAPTIST CHURCHES: 369 denominations (1970) originating with the 16th-century Anabaptists, who stressed adult baptism by immersion. The Encyclopedia of Religion says Baptists have “found it difficult to maintain organizational or theological unity,” adding that “the Baptist family in the United States is large, . . . but, as in many another large family, some members do not speak to other members.”

LUTHERAN CHURCHES: 240 denominations (1970), boasting the largest total membership of any Protestant group. They are “still somewhat divided along ethnic lines (German, Swede, etc),” says The World Almanac and Book of Facts 1988, adding, however, that the “main divisions are between fundamentalists and liberals.” The division of Lutherans into nationalistic camps became quite apparent during World War II, when, as E. W. Gritsch of Lutheran Theological Seminary, U.S.A., says, “a small minority of Lutheran pastors and congregations [in Germany] resisted Hitler, but the great majority of Lutherans either remained silent or actively cooperated with the Nazi regime.”

METHODIST CHURCHES: 188 denominations (1970) arising from a movement within the Church of England that was founded in 1738 by John Wesley. After his death it broke off as a separate group; Wesley defined a Methodist as “one that lives according to the method laid down in the Bible.”

REFORMED AND PRESBYTERIAN CHURCHES: Reformed churches (354 denominations as of 1970) in doctrine are Calvinistic, rather than Lutheran, and view themselves as the “Catholic Church, reformed.” “Presbyterian” designates a church government by elders (presbyters); all Presbyterian churches are Reformed churches, but not all Reformed churches have a presbyterian form of government.

I'll add a small section from the article of the 2nd part above (which actually has a slightly different title, the title of the videos is actually from the first page of that article). But that's for the next comment cause I'm out of space here for the proper layout.

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True Christians Then and Now

Christians of the first century at times had different opinions about things. For example, speaking of those in Corinth, the apostle Paul said: “Disclosure was made to me about you, my brothers, by those of the house of Chloe, that dissensions exist among you. What I mean is this, that each one of you says: ‘I belong to Paul,’ ‘But I to Apollos,’ ‘But I to Cephas,’ ‘But I to Christ.’”​—1 Corinthians 1:11, 12.

Did Paul view these differences as of little significance? Was each individual simply following his own path to salvation? Far from it! Paul admonished: “I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”​—1 Corinthians 1:10.

Of course, unity of belief cannot be achieved by coercion. It is achieved only when individuals carefully investigate matters and arrive at and accept the same conclusions. Thus, a personal study of God’s Word and an honest desire to apply what is learned are essential steps to enjoy the kind of unity that Paul spoke of. Can such unity be found? As we have seen, God has long dealt with his people as a group. Is it possible to identify that group today?

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Source: Which Religion Should You Choose?

a reply to: whereislogic

Wow, another copy and paste wall of text including altered scripture. You must be consulting with your elders before you reply. Do they tell you how to respond? If so, tell them to respond to me directly. Are you not capable of talking as an independent human being?

Want to talk about current events? What about all the court cases going on regarding sexual abuse of children in the JW?
Cases that are currently ongoing in Canada, the US, and elsewhere around the world? What about that?

Your adherence to Old Testament rules of a two witness system, or it didn’t happen. You claim Christianity don’t you? Don’t you believe that Christ fulfilled the Old Testament laws with his coming?

You and your elders are afraid of the truth, that’s why you close your mind to it.

a reply to: Topcraft

No need to respond to my commentary if I wasn't talking to you and you didn't want to hear it anyway. That would be like asking questions for which you don't want an answer cause they were meant to paint a negative picture anyway and to make that point instead, without any desire to hear a counter-argument or point (like in an actual conversation or discussion where both parties are willing to at least hear eachother out, regardless whether or not they can find some agreement).

But let me take this opportunity to quote another scripture (part of which I've already quoted before, but not the beginning, nor the part I will bold now), 2 Tim 3:1-5,8:

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
. . .
8 Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith.