The Truth about the Jehovah Witness

The Scriptures, Reason and the Trinity (1953)

...

OF PAGAN ORIGIN

Having seen that there is no Scriptural support for the teaching of the trinity but much Scriptural evidence contradicting it, obviously it is not of divine origin. From where, then, did it originate? Note the following testimony:

“The recognition of a trinity was universal in all the ancient nations of the world.”—The Two Babylons, Hislop.

“The word triad, or trinity, was borrowed from the pagan schools of philosophy and introduced into the theology of Christians of the middle second century by Theophilus, Bishop of Antioch.”—Bibliotheque Ecclesiastique, Dupin.

“Trinity is a very marked feature in Hindooism, and is discernible in Persian, Egyptian, Roman, Japanese, Indian and the most ancient Grecian mythologies.”—Religious Dictionary, Abbott.

Yes, the trinity finds its origin in the pagan concept of a multiplicity, plurality or pantheon of gods. The law Jehovah God gave to the Jews stated diametrically the opposite: “Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”—Deut. 6:4, AS.

Jehovah God says: “Come now, and let us reason together.” (Isa. 1:18) The advocates of the trinity admit that it is not subject to reason or logic, and so they resort to terming it a “mystery”. But the Bible contains no divine mysteries. It contains “sacred secrets”. Every use of the words “mystery” and “mysteries” in the King James Version comes from the same Greek root word meaning “to shut the mouth”, that is, to keep secret. There is a vast difference between a secret and a mystery. A secret is merely that which has not been made known, but a mystery is that which cannot be understood.

The advocates of the trinity admit that they cannot understand it. In vain they try to do the impossible, to elucidate it by analogies which are not analogous in vital respects; a practice which convicts them of inconsistency and a lack of confidence in the merits of their position. Jehovah God by his Word furnishes us with ample reasons and logical bases for all regarding which he expects us to exercise faith. Through the apostle Paul he counsels: “Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is right.” (1 Thess. 5:21, NW) We can make sure of what is right only by a process of reasoning on God’s Word.

The fact that the teaching of the trinity is not mentioned, not discussed, not explained nor vindicated anywhere in the Scriptures when so many other main points of teaching are (and that in spite of the fact that it has been the most controversial teaching of so-called Christianity) is strong circumstantial evidence that neither Christ Jesus nor his apostles nor disciples, nor, for that matter, any of the prophets of old recognized or taught such a mysterious teaching. God through his Word appeals to our reason. The trinity doctrine is a negation of both the Scriptures and reason.

But for some people, the bolded invitation will fall on deaf ears. “For looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’” (Matthew 13:13-15) And the other reasons explained at 2 Tim 4:3,4; Heb 5:11; John 8:44-47; Acts 7:51. The last one says: “Obstinate men and uncircumcised in hearts and ears, you are always resisting the holy spirit; as your forefathers did, so you do.” (quoted before as well but it's been a while for that one)

Coming back to the remark in the article above that "the advocates of the trinity admit that they cannot understand it." And the fact/reality that they call it a mystery.

... Cardinal John O’Connor stated about the Trinity: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.” Why is the Trinity so difficult to understand?

The Illustrated Bible Dictionary gives one reason. Speaking of the Trinity, this publication admits: “It is not a biblical doctrine in the sense that any formulation of it can be found in the Bible.” Because the Trinity is “not a biblical doctrine,” Trinitarians have been desperately looking for Bible texts​—even twisting them—​to find support for their teaching.

...

Source: Is Jesus God? (Find Out What the Bible Says, What Scholars Say.)

Full version in videoformat:

Or as the Assemblies of God (Trinitarian) website says:

The Trinity is a first-rate mystery. Augustine said that anyone who denies the Trinity is in danger of losing his salvation, and anyone who tries to understand it is in danger of losing his mind. It is not fully explained in Scripture.

As brought up in the video I linked before called: "Trinity Doctrine, A False Teaching Of Man, Council of Nicaea" (after 2:50). For your convenience:

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: whereislogic

Wow, another copy and paste wall of text including altered scripture. You must be consulting with your elders before you reply. Do they tell you how to respond? If so, tell them to respond to me directly. Are you not capable of talking as an independent human being?

Want to talk about current events? What about all the court cases going on regarding sexual abuse of children in the JW?
Cases that are currently ongoing in Canada, the US, and elsewhere around the world? What about that?

Your adherence to Old Testament rules of a two witness system, or it didn’t happen. You claim Christianity don’t you? Don’t you believe that Christ fulfilled the Old Testament laws with his coming?

You and your elders are afraid of the truth, that’s why you close your mind to it.

JWs are incapable of independent thought. Independent thought is considered Apostacy. The "Society" does all their thinking for them.

They literally exist within the Hive Mind of the WTBTS. In fact, in the the Ex JW community the "Organization"/"Society" is referred to as "The Borg" from "Star Trek: The Next Generation" TV series.

Edited to add: FWIW my 4 year old daughter was a victim of child sexual abuse in a JW Congregation in New Hampshire USA in the late 1970s. I was threatened with "Disfellowshipping" (Excommunication) if I reported the abuse to the authorities. 20+ years or so later I was contacted by a law firm in the Pacific NW about this case and a 1/2 dozen other cases in NH. There was a huge lawsuit that involved 3 JW Congregations in NH. There were settlements of undisclosed amounts and several people went to jail. The JW "Two Witness" rule is absolute insanity.

a reply to: whereislogic

So, you don’t like me responding to people in my own OP? Too bad my friend, that’s the way it’s going to be. I’m not ever going to stop. If you don’t like it, you wont get an apology from me.

You belong to a very manipulative controlling cult. I hate to say that, but believe it to be true. Your Cult controls every aspect of your life under the guise of religion. That to me is downright evil. I’m surprised they allow you to post online, and suspect that they tell you how to answer. Don’t step out of line now.

God gave you a brain for a reason, maybe you should try using it. Or do you believe that you’re not supposed to unless directed by the JW? I feel pity for you my friend. When they call you to the Kingdom Hall and tell you to drink the kool aide you will. You have been programmed my friend.

You have a lot of company. The people that followed the Rev Jim Jones, David Koresh, and many others around the world.

To tell the truth, the Mormons make more sense than JW. At least they are capable of conversation.

a reply to: LocutusofBorg001

My heart goes out to your daughter and to you. I have a daughter also.

There are huge lawsuits all over the world against the JW for child abuse, it’s sickening. But of course the practice goes on.
I’m a peaceful man, but if someone would abuse my family I don’t know what I’d do. For certain, the abuser wouldn’t be a happy camper. That I can assure you..

Hive mind exactly describes the JW. As does the Borg. Some people are happy to let others think for them. Makes me wonder why.

a reply to: Topcraft

I recognize a certain way of phrasing arguments, having talked to many people over the decades......so as Yoda once said, after going back and forth with a nemesis.
"The dark side I sense in you"

Just as the ring of Truth is discovered by finally understating the whys of the chaos of this planet, so does the opposite rhetoric phrased a very particular way, and you just rang that bell.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

No, I believe you have talked AT a lot of people over the decades. Conversations are hard for you, aren’t they? I “sense” a desperate person who is trying to imply I’m an evil person, because he’s afraid to answer simple questions.

It’s called deflection, and it’s obviously your favorite way to deal with uncomfortable questions. Do they teach that in your Kingdom Hall, or did you come up with that yourself? Either way, knock yourself out. It’s pretty amusing

a reply to: Topcraft

I “sense” a desperate person who is trying to imply I’m an evil person

Actually no, not you, but just the information you keep posting, the more you embrace it and double down on it, the more you spin around in a spiral of deceit and trickery.

Information that leads to spiritual loss is evil, and creates a lack of happiness both to those who spread it and listen to it.

There is a spiritual war going in the world right now, most of it goes unseen actually, moves and counter-moves just like a chess match. This thread is an example.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

You just don’t get it. I feel sorry for you. My information comes from the Bible, not Pastor Russell’s twisted mind. Wake up.

a reply to: Topcraft

My information comes from the Bible

So does mine, and I can use pretty much quote any bible on BibleHub to teach you truth as well, because I already know what your are going to complain about next ........"but you have your own bible", this is the weakest argument I hear from people, because it's basically a strawman argument for those that don't really know or understand.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

John 1:1 and John 1:14 ???

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

John 1:1 and John 1:14 ???

Exactly.

The J Dubs have corrupted those two verses to fit the Charlie Russell/"Judge" (wink wink) Rutherford/Freddie Franz theology.

On John 1:1

Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in the English Translation of New Testament by Professor Jason Beduhn of Arizona He is not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but he defends the NWT on John 1:1. Dr. Beduhn says,

The Jehovah’s Witness editors, in explaining this verse, say that they are trying to convey that the word has qualitative sense — that is, that the word belongs to the class of divine beings. This is correct. In fact, it seems clear to me that the word theos is in this verse a predicate adjective. I would translate as Moffatt and Goodspeed (two excellent scholars of Greek) have: “And the Word was divine.”

Also I find it very interesting the Greek speaking Christians from Greece that actually believe in the trinity choose not to use John 1:1 to defend it.

Now why would that be......because their understanding of the total Greek language both current and historical tells them that John 1:1 actually does not actually support the trinity. But they do use other scripture to back up their beliefs just not that one........so interesting.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Really? Forget the KJV. What does the Latin say? It would seem 2 billion Christians disagree with you. Show me where the original latin version agrees with what your saying.

1John1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Not "A god".

GOD.

Colossians 2:9

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form

FULLNESS OF THE DIETY.

TOTALLY GOD dwelling in a human body.

Period.

THE END.

No matter how they twist it ... Jehovahs Witness' are wrong.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Topcraft

I recognize a certain way of phrasing arguments, having talked to many people over the decades......so as Yoda once said, after going back and forth with a nemesis.
"The dark side I sense in you"

Just as the ring of Truth is discovered by finally understating the whys of the chaos of this planet, so does the opposite rhetoric phrased a very particular way, and you just rang that bell.

How about ‘I find your lack of faith disturbing’

Darth Vader.

The understanding of the Trinity itself is often misconstrued. Most see the trinity as existing external to themselves. That Jesus is God. Meister Eckhart explained “The Christian faith reveals that the One known to every religion possesses an interior life as Trinity. If we are to transcend the creation when we return to the One, the Christian knows that all we are and do, does not perish, but is resurrected in the life to come.”.

Galatians 3:26 "... YOU ARE ALL SONS OF GOD.

The "interior life of trinity" consist of the Father (great soul), the Son (our individual soul) and the holy ghost. Eckhart explained “The Father laughs with the Son; the Son laughs with the Father. The Father likes the Son; the Son likes the Father. The Father delights in the Son; the Son delights in the Father. The Father loves the Son; the Son loves the Father. This laughter, liking, delighting, loving is the Holy Spirit!”.

a reply to: FlyersFan

They can’t overcome John 1 no matter how hard they try, that’s why they had to change it. It is fun to watch them try tho.

a reply to: Topcraft

Many Christians don't understand to believe in the trinity means you are actually denying the ransom sacrifice of the Christ.
But how?

For the ransom to have been fully paid Jesus Christ had to die, physical body and soul, this means Jesus soul actually died to pay the ransom. But as we know it never stayed dead for long, his father God resurrected him only a few days later.

Thus he can't be the almighty God if he was dead to pay off the ransom, many think oh it was just his body, nope he was not around at all during those few days, not even in just spirit form. That is why the cost of the ransom is so high, it truly cost God everything.
And as a side point it helps us to appreciate we have a very difficult time comprehending God's justice being so perfect even he doesn't evade it, it doesn't compute in our brains.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Weak, very weak. Read John 1 again. What does it say? Something definitely is not computing in your brain at least.

It’s not as complicated as you’re trying to make it, it’s a very simple concept and clearly stated. Jesus Christ is God. I really don’t understand how anyone reading those verses could come to any other conclusion. What are you missing here?

a reply to: Topcraft
The idea that Jesus Christ was Almighty God began to be debated AFTER the apostles all died, and it was debated at great length until the 4th century.

Arianism is a Christological doctrine considered heretical by all modern mainstream branches of Christianity. It is first attributed to Arius (c. AD 256–336) a Christian presbyter who preached and studied in Alexandria, Egypt. Arian theology holds that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, who was begotten by God the Father with the difference that the Son of God did not always exist but was begotten/made before time by God the Father; therefore, Jesus was not coeternal with God the Father.


The ecumenical First Council of Nicaea of 325, convened by Emperor Constantine to ensure church unity, declared Arianism to be a heresy. According to Everett Ferguson, "The great majority of Christians had no clear views about the nature of the Trinity and they did not understand what was at stake in the issues that surrounded it."

On this very website the Council of Nicaea was voted within the top 25 conspiracies in the history of the world !!!

You need to dig deep on this issue like I have, go back to where this all started long before the Bible Students or JW's.
The bible said a great apostasy would spring up after all the Apostles were gone and it did, but truth would come back at the end of the ages, and it really has, the clarity on the nature of God and Jesus is all part of it.