Gaza Genocide Real or Propaganda

originally posted by: jofafot

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
a reply to: jofafot



It doesn't say civilians took hostages from Hamas. It says civilians took hostages themselves. If you don't think that can be done without weapons, then obviously they had weapons.

If they had weapons then they are not exactly a "civilian".

Yeah I made this point to you a few pages ago and you got mad. There's a very blurry line between Palestinian civilians and Palestinian terrorists, specifically because the terrorists don't all wear uniforms.

I get the distinct impression that's exactly what each of our governments wants us to think because when I do "googling" I have the exact opposite experience of yours.

Really? The opposite experience of mine would be that you can easily find evidence of Palestinian civilians participating in the attack on Google.

I'd love to see you demonstrate that. By all means, post more if you can find it. I had to be very strategic with my search terms to find the evidence I posted. It's out there, it's just not easy to get it to show up in search results because Google and most of Western media has an anti-Israel slant.

a reply to: jofafot

There are quite a few videos and reports of civilians assisting Hamas that day.

Palestinian "CIVILIANS" filmed themselves participating in the October 7 massacre.

t.me...

“The terrorists who captured me were civilians. They negotiated with Hamas to sell me. When they were paid, I was taken straight into a tunnel.” - 42-year old nurse Nili Margalit

t.me...

Another
t.me...

And another

t.me...

There is a fairly lengthy one that I am trying to find of a group of Hamas and civilians trying to flush a lone Israeli soldier out of a bunker that he was making his last stand in.

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: jofafot

There are quite a few videos and reports of civilians assisting Hamas that day.

Palestinian "CIVILIANS" filmed themselves participating in the October 7 massacre.

t.me...

“The terrorists who captured me were civilians. They negotiated with Hamas to sell me. When they were paid, I was taken straight into a tunnel.” - 42-year old nurse Nili Margalit

t.me...

There is a fairly lengthy one that I am trying to find of a group of Hamas and civilians trying to flush a lone Israeli soldier out of a bunker that he was making his last stand in.

Thanks for posting those. I knew I had seen videos like that, I just couldn't find them and I didn't want to just use my own claim of "I've seen videos" as evidence.

a reply to: YourFaceAgain

most of Western media has an anti-Israel slant.

Which media are you talking about? Unified support for Israel is being expressed from both left and right. People criticizing Israel get rebuked.

a reply to: YourFaceAgain

I didn't want to just use my own claim of "I've seen videos" as evidence.

Just a friendly reminder you were the one who made the claim without backing it up in the first place. You only provided proofs after the fact that I specifically told you to do it. So, I am not gonna say anything. You tell me if you find your own "I didn't want to just use my own claim" statement honest.

Yeah I made this point to you a few pages ago and you got mad. There's a very blurry line between Palestinian civilians and Palestinian terrorists, specifically because the terrorists don't all wear uniforms.

If there is a very blurry line then what is the point of arguing about all this. I mean you admit there is a blurry line. But then again say "civilians" participated and even used weapons to capture hostages on their own. To me, outside of war, whoever has a weapon and is using the weapon to capture hostages is a terrorist. So, to me, what you are referring as "civilians" are terrorists. I already said you can blame what I consider "civilians" who helped holding hostages for hamas. I am having a hard time understanding your point. It is all blurry to me.

Really? The opposite experience of mine would be that you can easily find evidence of Palestinian civilians participating in the attack on Google.

I am talking about this:

considering a lot of Western media are anti-Israel and support the Palestinians

I can provide you countless "evidence" against this but I see no point in doing that.

originally posted by: jofafot
a reply to: YourFaceAgain

Yeah I made this point to you a few pages ago and you got mad. There's a very blurry line between Palestinian civilians and Palestinian terrorists, specifically because the terrorists don't all wear uniforms.

If there is a very blurry line then what is the point of arguing about all this.

The point is that dead terrorists often get falsely counted as civilians.

I mean you admit there is a blurry line. But then again say "civilians" participated and even used weapons to capture hostages on their own. To me, outside of war, whoever has a weapon and is using the weapon to capture hostages is a terrorist. So, to me, what you are referring as "civilians" are terrorists. I already said you can blame what I consider "civilians" who helped holding hostages for hamas. I am having a hard time understanding your point. It is all blurry to me.

Imagine how blurry it is to an Israeli soldier in the middle of a firefight. Or how problematic that is in counting dead. Someone with a gun in civilian clothes gets justifiably shot by an Israeli soldier, but one of the terrorist's buddies grab his gun running away, now you've got a dead body in civilian clothes without a weapon and Israel gets accused of "murdering" him.

I am talking about this:

considering a lot of Western media are anti-Israel and support the Palestinians

I can provide you countless "evidence" against this but I see no point in doing that.

Organizations that monitor the media for anti-Israel bias get them to concede and issue a bunch of corrections per month for their bias against Israel. And that's just the ones they'll correct. There are other instances they refuse to correct.

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
The point is that dead terrorists often get falsely counted as civilians.

And the tens of thousands of 'palestinian' teenagers trained by Hamas and working for them get counted as 'children'.

Biden Admin Should Check Hamas Ministry of Health Death Stats Expert Warns

Adesnik also encouraged closer scrutiny of children in Hamas’ death figures, explaining that many Hamas fighters are under the age of 18. "If you look at the gender breakdown of people who died under the age of 18, you can see the teenagers have a surplus of men," he explained.

Gabriel Epstein, a research assistant at The Washington Institute’s Koret Project on Arab-Israel Relations, reported in January the "many reasons to treat Gaza Ministry of Health and [Government Media Office] fatality numbers with skepticism," including their underreporting of male deaths. By March 26, Epstein noted that "discrepancies in official Palestinian counts and their growing reliance on questionable data" have ensured the ministry’s "numbers themselves have lost any claim to validity."

From 2014 ... many more have been trained by now I'm sure.

Numbers more than double in second year of Gaza’s ‘Pioneers of Liberation’ program; females also trained

13,000 Teens Complete Hamas Training Camps

The Hamas government in Gaza celebrated the graduation on Monday of paramilitary camps geared at training high-school children “to follow in the footsteps of the suicide martyrs.”

The camps, titled “the pioneers of liberation,” are run by Hamas’s ministries of education and interior. Some 13,000 students in grades 10-12 participated in the one-week training camps this year, compared to 5,000 last year when the program was launched, Israeli sources with knowledge of the program said.

The corps of instructors consists mainly of active members of Hamas’s security forces, and the curriculum includes weapons training, first aid, self defense, marching exercises and “security awareness” classes on identifying Israeli spies.

And another crop of 15,000 teenagers complete Hamas training one year later.

15,000 Young Gazans Complete Hamas Terror Training Camps

Recruits aged 15 and up taught how to kidnap soldiers, use weapons, and infiltrate into Israel through tunnels

Thousands of recruits as young as 15 learned how to kidnap soldiers, use weapons, and infiltrate into Israel though tunnels at a Hamas paramilitary training camp in Gaza.

On Thursday, some 15,000 Gazan teenagers and young men graduated from the week-long training camps, called the “Pioneers of Liberation.” The 15-21-year-olds underwent military training for the armed wing of Hamas, Izaddin al-Qassam, six months after Hamas and other Gaza terror groups fought a 50-day war against Israel.

Drills included weapons training and exercises simulating kidnapping IDF soldiers and infiltration into Israel through tunnels. Portraits of Israeli leaders were used in target practice for sniper training. “We are participating in the camp so that we will know how to fight the Zionist enemy and regain our ancestral home of Palestine,” one teenager said, in footage from the training camps screened on Israel’s Channel 2 TV on Thursday night.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
The point is that dead terrorists often get falsely counted as civilians.

And the tens of thousands of 'palestinian' teenagers trained by Hamas and working for them get counted as 'children'.

Correct, and not just teenagers. I'm not gonna go hunting for evidence of it, so call it anecdotal, but following this conflict for as long as I have, I've seen Palestinians claiming a militant as old as mid 20s was a "child" that Israel "murdered."

a reply to: FlyersFan
The thing is, probably everyone knows numbers are fabricated by each side and nothing is true anymore. The problem is, atleast in my opinion, people get brainwashed to believe one side's numbers are correct and choose that's the hill they want to die on.

originally posted by: jofafot
everyone knows numbers are fabricated by each side and nothing is true anymore.

I've said it the whole time ... NO ONE knows how many dead are in Gaza. We DO know the Hamas numbers are fake. We DO know that the United Nations don't know what the hell they are talking about and their numbers are based on Hamas numbers so they are wrong. We DO know that Israel just put out numbers that look almost impossibly good for them ratio wise (if they are true, then its REALLY impressive!). NO ONE knows and no one will ever know.

Just checking in.

Have the college students on break schooled us on how Israel is committing genocide yet?

originally posted by: jofafot
a reply to: FlyersFan
The thing is, probably everyone knows numbers are fabricated by each side and nothing is true anymore. The problem is, atleast in my opinion, people get brainwashed to believe one side's numbers are correct and choose that's the hill they want to die on.

Which is why in this post I used Hamas's numbers to disprove the genocide narrative. Those are the most favorable numbers to the Palestinians, and the least favorable to Israel, and even those numbers disprove the narrative.

a reply to: YourFaceAgain

Organizations that monitor the media for anti-Israel bias get them to concede and issue a bunch of corrections per month for their bias against Israel. And that's just the ones they'll correct. There are other instances they refuse to correct.

I don't think disagreeing with what a government is doing is called "anti-nation". Let me give you an example. Let's say I don't like what usa's government is doing, I don't agree with most of what they do. Does that make me anti-usa? Let's go further and assume yes, but even if it does make me anti-usa, why would you want to "correct" me? That's literally called censorship. It has nothing to do with truth or being right. So, I don't see what is wrong with being "anti-israel"(as you put it) if I don't agree with what netanyahoo is doing.

Just to clarify, I am pointing this out specifically because you said "anti-israel". I am not saying you shouldn't "correct" racist, bigoted, supremacist sites because in those cases atleast you would have a valid reason to do it.

a reply to: jofafot

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

Organizations that monitor the media for anti-Israel bias get them to concede and issue a bunch of corrections per month for their bias against Israel. And that's just the ones they'll correct. There are other instances they refuse to correct.

The most notable example of that in this war was when pretty much the entire international media ran full speed ahead with Hamas's fake claim that Israel had bombed a hospital and killed 500 civilians.

No verification even attempted, they charged ahead with that false claim.

The casualty numbers most of the media use come from Hamas too. That's pretty clear bias against Israel. That's not just "disagreeing with the government" of Israel. It's openly siding with the other side. They will take Hamas's claims at face value but anything Israel reports gets constantly qualified as "unconfirmed." That's obvious bias.

originally posted by: jofafot
a reply to: YourFaceAgain

I didn't want to just use my own claim of "I've seen videos" as evidence.

Just a friendly reminder you were the one who made the claim without backing it up in the first place.

Just a friendly reminder you've been provided 15 links in the last few pages by 3 or 4 different members to substantiate what we've been saying.

Number of links you've posted in that time to substantiate anything you've been saying: 0

ETA: Links in bios are easy to miss (and I didn't count it), but FlyersFan has a pretty good link in her bio that I recommend you read as well. I don't always credit The Federalist with good writing but it's a pretty good piece, with lots of links to outside sources to back up what they say in the article.

a reply to: YourFaceAgain
You just posted news against my country? You are clearly biased and need to be "corrected".
You just posted news that favors my country? You are clearly objective and spreading truth.
There is a veeery thin line between these two views and that's the line israel is trying to walk on with their various "correction" organizations. I said trying because I have a feeling they might be biased to favor themselves

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: jofafot
a reply to: YourFaceAgain

I didn't want to just use my own claim of "I've seen videos" as evidence.

Just a friendly reminder you were the one who made the claim without backing it up in the first place.

Just a friendly reminder you've been provided 15 links in the last few pages by 3 or 4 different members to substantiate what we've been saying.

Number of links you've posted in that time to substantiate anything you've been saying: 0

Well, unlike you, that(what you said in the quote above) might be the reason why I was not the one trying to take a moral high ground by writing this:

I didn't want to just use my own claim of "I've seen videos" as evidence.

originally posted by: jofafot
a reply to: YourFaceAgain
You just posted news against my country? You are clearly biased and need to be "corrected".
You just posted news that favors my country? You are clearly objective and spreading truth.
There is a veeery thin line between these two views and that's the line israel is trying to walk on with their various "correction" organizations.

The organizations I was referring to aren't Israel-based. And even if they were, they can't force the media to make corrections. They merely point out the "mistakes" the media makes, and if the media think it's egregious enough, the media outlet that got it wrong issues the corrections themselves. So Israel's bias in favor of themselves has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Maybe you should start asking questions instead of just making assumptions, because your assumptions keep turning out wrong.

a reply to: YourFaceAgain

The organizations I was referring to aren't Israel-based.

It doesn't matter, even if they were usa based what I said still holds true.

Maybe you should start asking questions instead of just making assumptions, because your assumptions keep turning out wrong.

I'll make sure to ask more but I do ask questions. For example I asked for a proof for your claim. Which you provided. After I asked. But before you did that you made sure to praise yourself for "not using my claim as evidence". Maybe you should be more honest.

FlyersFan has a pretty good link in her bio that I recommend you read as well. I don't always credit The Federalist with good writing but it's a pretty good piece, with lots of links to outside sources to back up what they say in the article.

Sorry, you lost me with that name. If I were to trust that site I might as well trust aljazeera too 😂

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain


Correct, and not just teenagers. I'm not gonna go hunting for evidence of it, so call it anecdotal, but following this conflict for as long as I have, I've seen Palestinians claiming a militant as old as mid 20s was a "child" that Israel "murdered."

Let's not forget that Hams starts training kids very early in their life. For this effort, they use them as spotters and even arm them. It's a win-win for them to use them, and if they die, they can scream that Israel is killing kids.

originally posted by: jofafot

I'll make sure to ask more

You simple ask questions that are off topic to this thread to derail this thread.

How about you weight the evidence that is out there instead of just asking pointless questions.

Do you have any evidence the claims of Israel committing genocide are anything other than propaganda. You know. The topic of this thread.