Common Sense Gun Legislation

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

You are free to speculate that

Not everything can be included in every single bill/law.

No, but we can speculate on why Alabama thinks it's not the first go to idea when dealing with school shootings, whereas Tennessee does.

a reply to: quintessentone

Again, you are free to speculate what you wish

Guess we know who the sheep and sheepdog are......

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Again, you are free to speculate what you wish

Guess we know who the sheep and sheepdog are......

We won't know that until both strategies are employed, God forbid.

a reply to: quintessentone

We already know that, some just choose to ignore it.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

We already know that, some just choose to ignore it.

Nobody knows anything regarding the best strategy to use in school shootings that is why they are trying different approaches at this time.

a reply to: quintessentone

I can tell my analogy went right over your head.

We already know how running and hiding works out in a school shooting.

Now, imagine if those teachers had a firearm to defend themselves and the students in the classroom.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

I can tell my analogy went right over your head.

We already know how running and hiding works out in a school shooting.

Now, imagine if those teachers had a firearm to defend themselves and the students in the classroom.

Alabama already knows getting behind a bulletproof wall that is impenetrable will save lives whereas only arming teachers is not considered a good idea, and I can envision many different scenarios as to why.

a reply to: quintessentone

There is no such thing as an "impenetrable bullet proof wall", those are fantasies.

Yes, the wall might stop some bullets, but there has been nothing made that is actually bullet proof. Anything labeled as bulletproof is not going to stop every bullet fired at it, it's just the reality of how they work.

And since you like to look at worst case, Then you move into the possibility that the shooter as AP ammo and then your wall will stop absolutely nothing.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

I can tell my analogy went right over your head.

We already know how running and hiding works out in a school shooting.

Now, imagine if those teachers had a firearm to defend themselves and the students in the classroom.

We don't have to imagine. There are already schools in the country that have armed staff.

Try to find a report of a school shooting at one of them.

a reply to: YourFaceAgain

Reality means nothing to this guy, only their twisted delusions that a good guy with a gun will not help anything

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: YourFaceAgain

Reality means nothing to this guy, only their twisted delusions that a good guy with a gun will not help anything

Your words not mine, I said first get the children/staff out of the line of sight then have at the shooter.

Anyway the majority of teachers think teachers being armed will make schools less safe.

Gun rights activists have long proposed arming teachers to combat school shootings. Most educators, however, say putting guns in teachers’ hands isn’t the answer. More than half of US teachers believe being armed would make schools less safe, according to a recent survey from the RAND Corporation.

www.cnn.com...

Key Findings
Similar to older and state-specific surveys, this survey found that teachers are divided about arming teachers at school. Fifty-four percent of the nationally representative sample of teachers reported believing that teachers carrying firearms will make schools less safe, 20 percent reported believing that it will make schools safer, and the final 26 percent reported feeling that it would make schools neither more nor less safe.

White teachers were more likely than Black teachers to feel that teachers carrying firearms would make schools safer, and male teachers in rural schools were most likely to say that they would personally carry a firearm at school if allowed.

All told, about 550,000 of the country's 3 million K–12 teachers would choose to carry a firearm at school if allowed.

Regardless of gender or race, roughly half of teachers felt that physical security measures at their school (which most commonly include locks, ID badges, cameras, and security staff) positively affected the school climate. Only 5 percent of teachers felt that their schools' physical security measures had a negative effect on school climate.

Despite the growth in gun violence, bullying — rather than active shooters — was teachers' most common safety concern.

www.rand.org...

a reply to: quintessentone

Your actions speak louder than your words...


How many of those teachers know anything about proper and safe gun handling or storage? Let alone how to even use a firearm?

Again, this shows us who the real sheep and and who are the real sheepdogs.


But, yet again, this is a VOLUNTARY thing. Nobody is being forced to do it. If you have a problem with someone else wanting to be able to protect themselves and the kids they teach, you should probably find another job because you don't really care about those kids that much.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Your actions speak louder than your words...


How many of those teachers know anything about proper and safe gun handling or storage? Let alone how to even use a firearm?

Again, this shows us who the real sheep and and who are the real sheepdogs.


But, yet again, this is a VOLUNTARY thing. Nobody is being forced to do it. If you have a problem with someone else wanting to be able to protect themselves and the kids they teach, you should probably find another job because you don't really care about those kids that much.

Caring about the kids and staff by getting them behind a bulletproof wall is the best strategy going forward as is evidenced by Alabama educators/government reps. and by the majority of teachers in that survey I posted who say arming teachers would make the schools less safe. Just keep ignoring best practices and keep calling everyone sheep as that seems to be what works for you.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: YourFaceAgain

Reality means nothing to this guy, only their twisted delusions that a good guy with a gun will not help anything

We don't have to imagine that either. There are plenty of examples of good guys with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun, and bystanders are only hit in a very small percentage of such instances.

Students are already trained to run, hide, and fight during a shooting.

You run in the opposite direction of the sound of shots if you can't see the shooter and it appears safe to run. If you can't see the shooter, you're not going to be hit by an armed staff member engaging the shooter.

You hide if it doesn't appear safe to run. If you're hiding, you're in cover and unlikely to be hit by an armed staff member engaging the shooter.

If an armed staff member takes down the shooter, you won't have to fight.

Of course you can still imagine a scenario where a student is hit in a crossfire. But if no one is there to engage the shooter, many more students are gonna be hit by the shooter. That's quite clearly the worse option.

There is no sensible reason to oppose allowing properly trained and screened staff members carrying guns in schools. This has been allowed in some schools for years, and none of the problems the gun control crowd insist will happen have happened.

It's not even that hard to understand. Some people are just determined to keep their mind shut tighter than a snare drum.

a reply to: quintessentone

Here is this again since you clearly missed it earlier

There is no such thing as an "impenetrable bullet proof wall", those are fantasies.

Yes, the wall might stop some bullets, but there has been nothing made that is actually bullet proof. Anything labeled as bulletproof is not going to stop every bullet fired at it, it's just the reality of how they work.

And since you like to look at worst case, Then you move into the possibility that the shooter as AP ammo and then your wall will stop absolutely nothing.


I ask you again, how many of those polled for this know anything about firearms? I would venture to say not very many, if any at all.

What ways would that make schools less safe? Having a gun to meet the bad guy with a gun as soon as he walks in the building and stop any chance of him getting to a student?


I am only calling a spade a spade. There are two types of people, sheep and sheepdogs. Those that run towards the fight and those that cower in the corner and wait for the sheepdog to save them.

a reply to: PorkChop96

If Police can only hit their targets 18% of the time, what would that percentage be for teachers?

The RAND Evaluation of the New York City Police Department Firearm Training and Firearm-Discharge Review Process found only 18 percent of shots fired by trained police officers in gunfights hit their criminal targets. This suggests four or five of every six shots fired by comparably trained teachers would hit something or someone other than the targeted shooter.[7] Sherrilyn Ifill, president of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, wrote, "although the perpetrators of mass school shootings have been almost exclusively white, there's little doubt that arming teachers will lead disproportionately to the killing—by teachers—of children of color."[8]

In a 2019 national survey of 2,926 teachers, more than 95% did not believe teachers should carry a gun in the classroom,[26] and concerns raised by teachers include how to keep the gun secured in the classroom, with one asking, "If a kid reaches for my gun, am I to shoot them?".

en.wikipedia.org...

I'm glad there are smart people out there making the final decisions.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

And since you like to look at worst case, Then you move into the possibility that the shooter as AP ammo and then your wall will stop absolutely nothing.

The thickness and amount of steel you need to stop repeated rifle rounds, even just standard rounds, will quickly make this option unaffordable.

It would be more effective and cost less to treat the root of the problem, which is the mental health crisis.

But that doesn't focus on the gun, so the gun control crowd has no interest in it.

This would be a good time to remind everyone that the CDC gun violence study President Obama commissioned after Newtown found that the mental health crisis was a major driver of school shootings.

It also found shooters were inspired by the media attention. So every time the media gives a shooter wall-to-wall coverage for a week, they're inspiring the next one.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Again,how are schools supposed to get funding for these "bulletproof walls"? Take more funding away from the teachers that are already on shoestring budgets?

Armed teachers cost the schools nothing but some paperwork

Armed teachers facing a shooter with children and other staff running around in chaos ? think about it.

yes, please do think about it. And also factor in the chance of an armed teacher being able to stop a shooter from killing anyone else, as opposed to being able to do nothing, because you aren't allowed to carry on school grounds. And let me know what you come up with.

Take the children/staff out of the situation, then have at him, is what I come up with.

in a body bag?

a reply to: quintessentone

Per the NYPD website:

"Recruit officers must successfully complete fifteen days of training at the Firearms & Tactics Section. This includes five days of basic firearms instruction, and ten days of tactical training."

If someone who carries a firearm only practices for 5 days then carries they are a danger to themselves and everyone around them.

There are, roughly, 4 million teachers in the US. 7% of 1% of teachers opinions means about as much as your opinion on the matter.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Your actions speak louder than your words...


How many of those teachers know anything about proper and safe gun handling or storage? Let alone how to even use a firearm?

Again, this shows us who the real sheep and and who are the real sheepdogs.


But, yet again, this is a VOLUNTARY thing. Nobody is being forced to do it. If you have a problem with someone else wanting to be able to protect themselves and the kids they teach, you should probably find another job because you don't really care about those kids that much.

Caring about the kids and staff by getting them behind a bulletproof wall is the best strategy going forward as is evidenced by Alabama educators/government reps. and by the majority of teachers in that survey I posted who say arming teachers would make the schools less safe. Just keep ignoring best practices and keep calling everyone sheep as that seems to be what works for you.

and a few posts back you claimed that this was all a trial basis, now you know for sure what the best choice is. You really need to consider your position, then speak. Trying to figure out what you mean on the fly isn't helping.