Common Sense Gun Legislation

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

From your most recent study post

In a 2019 national survey of 2,926 teachers, more than 95% did not believe teachers should carry a gun in the classroom,[26] and concerns raised by teachers include how to keep the gun secured in the classroom, with one asking, "If a kid reaches for my gun, am I to shoot them?".

That concern is #ing silly anyway since you could make the same argument with armed guards. And the wise way to implement this would be for them to carry concealed and not announce which teachers are certified and carrying, so a potential shooter won't be able to just target them first.

It's not surprising though that people who are completely uninformed on the issue will raise silly concerns.

Like I pointed out earlier in the thread, their ignorance holds back progress because we spend so much time on this kind of nonsense.

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

From your most recent study post

In a 2019 national survey of 2,926 teachers, more than 95% did not believe teachers should carry a gun in the classroom,[26] and concerns raised by teachers include how to keep the gun secured in the classroom, with one asking, "If a kid reaches for my gun, am I to shoot them?".

That concern is #ing silly anyway since you could make the same argument with armed guards. And the wise way to implement this would be for them to carry concealed and not announce which teachers are certified and carrying, so a potential shooter won't be able to just target them first.

It's not surprising though that people who are completely uninformed on the issue will raise silly concerns.

How would a shooter know they are carrying if the weapon is concealed. You don't make any sense.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

From your most recent study post

In a 2019 national survey of 2,926 teachers, more than 95% did not believe teachers should carry a gun in the classroom,[26] and concerns raised by teachers include how to keep the gun secured in the classroom, with one asking, "If a kid reaches for my gun, am I to shoot them?".

That concern is #ing silly anyway since you could make the same argument with armed guards. And the wise way to implement this would be for them to carry concealed and not announce which teachers are certified and carrying, so a potential shooter won't be able to just target them first.

It's not surprising though that people who are completely uninformed on the issue will raise silly concerns.

How would a shooter know they are carrying if the weapon is concealed. You don't make any sense.

So not only are you uninformed on the issue, you can't read either. Explains a lot.

a reply to: quintessentone

That is literally what he said..........

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

That is literally what he said..........

This whole conversation is off the rails. My stance aligns with Alabama's safety strategies first then do more studies on arming teachers, because teachers will need a whole lot more training than just how to shoot at a target, which by the way in that chaotic scenario probably won't work out very well and that's why Alabama won't arm teachers, and that's why the majority of teachers think it will be more unsafe in schools for other reasons.

a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

It is who is using the firearm that is at issue, as stated by parents protesting right now in Tennessee against this new law, as stated by the majority of teachers across the U.S., etc. Tennessee is not looking at any other safety strategies that I can find except for arming school staff who don't have to pass any kind of mental health test either from what I've been reading. What training exactly do these TN teachers need to learn, just how to shoot straight? It's alarming and there are protests going on right now as I type this.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

It is who is using the firearm that is at issue, as stated by parents protesting right now in Tennessee against this new law, as stated by the majority of teachers across the U.S., etc. Tennessee is not looking at any other safety strategies that I can find except for arming school staff who don't have to pass any kind of mental health test either from what I've been reading. What training exactly do these TN teachers need to learn, just how to shoot straight? It's alarming and there are protests going on right now as I type this.

so you are against it, but admit you haven't a clue what is involved. I'd say I'm shocked but that would be a lie.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

It is who is using the firearm that is at issue, as stated by parents protesting right now in Tennessee against this new law, as stated by the majority of teachers across the U.S., etc. Tennessee is not looking at any other safety strategies that I can find except for arming school staff who don't have to pass any kind of mental health test either from what I've been reading. What training exactly do these TN teachers need to learn, just how to shoot straight? It's alarming and there are protests going on right now as I type this.

As you have demonstrated in this thread, it's only alarming to the uninformed.

They can be alarmed all they want. Even if only 5% are knowledgeable and trained, it will save lives. The rest can stay as ignorant as they want to be. It's alarming to me that a large percentage of our teachers value their ignorance.

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

It is who is using the firearm that is at issue, as stated by parents protesting right now in Tennessee against this new law, as stated by the majority of teachers across the U.S., etc. Tennessee is not looking at any other safety strategies that I can find except for arming school staff who don't have to pass any kind of mental health test either from what I've been reading. What training exactly do these TN teachers need to learn, just how to shoot straight? It's alarming and there are protests going on right now as I type this.

As you have demonstrated in this thread, it's only alarming to the uninformed.

They can be alarmed all they want. Even if only 5% are knowledgeable and trained, it will save lives. The rest can stay as ignorant as they want to be. It's alarming to me that a large percentage of our teachers value their ignorance.

They need to not only pass the usual vulnerability security test but anyone carrying a gun should be mandated to pass a mental fitness test, especially in a school and especially where the teacher may be thrown into an adrenalin-rushing horrific chaotic scenario without any training or most likely no prior experience. Police can't even hit their most of their targets in emergency situations.

And BTW law enforcement think it's a bad idea too.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

It is who is using the firearm that is at issue, as stated by parents protesting right now in Tennessee against this new law, as stated by the majority of teachers across the U.S., etc. Tennessee is not looking at any other safety strategies that I can find except for arming school staff who don't have to pass any kind of mental health test either from what I've been reading. What training exactly do these TN teachers need to learn, just how to shoot straight? It's alarming and there are protests going on right now as I type this.

As you have demonstrated in this thread, it's only alarming to the uninformed.

They can be alarmed all they want. Even if only 5% are knowledgeable and trained, it will save lives. The rest can stay as ignorant as they want to be. It's alarming to me that a large percentage of our teachers value their ignorance.

They need to not only pass the usual vulnerability security test but anyone carrying a gun should be mandated to pass a mental fitness test

That's not up to you. I encourage anyone who wishes to carry a gun to get training. What's mandated for "anyone" to carry a gun is codified in the federal and state constitutions and their laws. The state will consult with firearms experts to determine what kind of additional qualifications make sense for this program. Teachers are not experts. Most cops are not firearms experts either.

Police can't even hit their most of their targets in emergency situations.

I addressed that. You ignored it because you can't stand learning anything that contradicts your beliefs, no matter how ill-founded they are.

Keep clinging to that ignorance and holding back progress.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

It is who is using the firearm that is at issue, as stated by parents protesting right now in Tennessee against this new law, as stated by the majority of teachers across the U.S., etc. Tennessee is not looking at any other safety strategies that I can find except for arming school staff who don't have to pass any kind of mental health test either from what I've been reading. What training exactly do these TN teachers need to learn, just how to shoot straight? It's alarming and there are protests going on right now as I type this.

so you are against it, but admit you haven't a clue what is involved. I'd say I'm shocked but that would be a lie.

I am not against it, but as you want to ignore what I posted previously, I want other safety measure put in place first. I would like the kids/staff given some form of safety before armed teachers, the shooter and law enforcement start shooting the place up. I also have issues with armed teachers getting more than straight shooting lessons and I want them to have to pass a mental health assessment and ensure they don't have any violent tendencies against others.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

It is who is using the firearm that is at issue, as stated by parents protesting right now in Tennessee against this new law, as stated by the majority of teachers across the U.S., etc. Tennessee is not looking at any other safety strategies that I can find except for arming school staff who don't have to pass any kind of mental health test either from what I've been reading. What training exactly do these TN teachers need to learn, just how to shoot straight? It's alarming and there are protests going on right now as I type this.

so you are against it, but admit you haven't a clue what is involved. I'd say I'm shocked but that would be a lie.

I am not against it, but as you want to ignore what I posted previously, I want other safety measure put in place first. I would like the kids/staff given some form of safety before armed teachers, the shooter and law enforcement start shooting the place up. I also have issues with armed teachers getting more than straight shooting lessons and having to pass a mental health assessment.

good for you. If you live in TN, you can vote on this, if not, then WTF is your issue? Each state gets to decide how they wish to try to keep kids safe from crazy people who want to kill kids. If a state does something you don't like, and you live there, move.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

It is who is using the firearm that is at issue, as stated by parents protesting right now in Tennessee against this new law, as stated by the majority of teachers across the U.S., etc. Tennessee is not looking at any other safety strategies that I can find except for arming school staff who don't have to pass any kind of mental health test either from what I've been reading. What training exactly do these TN teachers need to learn, just how to shoot straight? It's alarming and there are protests going on right now as I type this.

so you are against it, but admit you haven't a clue what is involved. I'd say I'm shocked but that would be a lie.

I am not against it, but as you want to ignore what I posted previously, I want other safety measure put in place first. I would like the kids/staff given some form of safety before armed teachers, the shooter and law enforcement start shooting the place up. I also have issues with armed teachers getting more than straight shooting lessons and having to pass a mental health assessment.

good for you. If you live in TN, you can vote on this, if not, then WTF is your issue? Each state gets to decide how they wish to try to keep kids safe from crazy people who want to kill kids. If a state does something you don't like, and you live there, move.

There's more to it than just arming a teacher and hoping they can handle the situation, just saying.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

It is who is using the firearm that is at issue, as stated by parents protesting right now in Tennessee against this new law, as stated by the majority of teachers across the U.S., etc. Tennessee is not looking at any other safety strategies that I can find except for arming school staff who don't have to pass any kind of mental health test either from what I've been reading. What training exactly do these TN teachers need to learn, just how to shoot straight? It's alarming and there are protests going on right now as I type this.

so you are against it, but admit you haven't a clue what is involved. I'd say I'm shocked but that would be a lie.

I am not against it, but as you want to ignore what I posted previously, I want other safety measure put in place first. I would like the kids/staff given some form of safety before armed teachers, the shooter and law enforcement start shooting the place up. I also have issues with armed teachers getting more than straight shooting lessons and having to pass a mental health assessment.

Those magically bulletproof devices are $50,000 a piece.
Multiply that by the number of classrooms in each school.
Big giant number which can’t be paid for.
It’s illogical, unrealistic, and unaffordable. Especially when the benefits are totally unknown. The shooters would know they are there of course and adjust accordingly btw.

Having volunteer armed teachers provided with regular interval training/shooting/qualifying is the second best option to putting cops in there.
Realistic and affordable.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

No they would rather use a experimental "bulletproof wall" to protect kids that could fail pretty rapidly.

makes a lot of sense to me.

You are ignorant to anything to do with the safe and proper use of guns and I'm not even sure why you think you know anything about them. You have proven day in and day out how little you know about using a firearm.

Again, 20% is not a majority!!! Stop saying that

It is who is using the firearm that is at issue, as stated by parents protesting right now in Tennessee against this new law, as stated by the majority of teachers across the U.S., etc. Tennessee is not looking at any other safety strategies that I can find except for arming school staff who don't have to pass any kind of mental health test either from what I've been reading. What training exactly do these TN teachers need to learn, just how to shoot straight? It's alarming and there are protests going on right now as I type this.

so you are against it, but admit you haven't a clue what is involved. I'd say I'm shocked but that would be a lie.

I am not against it, but as you want to ignore what I posted previously, I want other safety measure put in place first. I would like the kids/staff given some form of safety before armed teachers, the shooter and law enforcement start shooting the place up. I also have issues with armed teachers getting more than straight shooting lessons and having to pass a mental health assessment.

good for you. If you live in TN, you can vote on this, if not, then WTF is your issue? Each state gets to decide how they wish to try to keep kids safe from crazy people who want to kill kids. If a state does something you don't like, and you live there, move.

There's more to it than just arming a teacher and hoping they can handle the situation, just saying.

Nice goalpost shift.

Don't come into a subject you know nothing about and spout your uninformed gibberish and you won't back yourself into those corners.

Like I always tell you guys, it's okay to not know much or anything about a subject, but have some humility and try to learn.

It's the height of ignorance to think you have the answers on issues that you barely know anything about. You don't have the answers, and any hare-brained schemes you come up with are gonna have serious flaws because there are naturally gonna be lots of things you didn't consider since you don't know much about the issue to begin with.

That was borne out earlier in the thread. I have no doubt you learned precisely zip from any of it. Your mind is closed.

I genuinely wish your mind wasn't closed.

You can have your uninformed last word.

originally posted by: quintessentone
There's more to it than just arming a teacher and hoping they can handle the situation, just saying.

.... aaaaaand we are back to page one of this thread. No one said anything like that.

You have had your lunch handed to you on this thread. I hope you learned something.

Teachers who wish to be armed should be able to be so. Classroom instruction and range training annually. They already have background checks. Mental health checks once a year would go with that as well in order to be certified each year to carry in a classroom.

An armed and instructed teacher immediately on the scene of a shooter in the classroom will save lives.

I no longer have a child in school, but if I did, I would be GLAD to have the teachers instructed and range trained and armed. It's a hell of a lot better than having my child sitting helpless in a classroom and just hoping for the best and hoping that nothing bad happens.

a reply to: PorkChop96

Yes sir. Thank you for carrying! No point going further.

We had a murder by crock pot cooker here like last year or so here in Detroit. And some printed ghost guns confiscated.*

* YAY Detroit Police. We love you guys!

If passed, teachers would have to get a carry permit, pass a psychological evaluation, and take yearly training courses.

The school principal, the superintendent, and law enforcement would also have to give those teachers approval.

If the psychological evaluation is mandated and those three areas of government approve teachers being armed, then it is up to parents to protest if they still believe classrooms will be unsafe. I would also like to see an extended investigation into these people by interviewing their family and friends and to make sure they aren't members of any unsavory groups.

It's obvious if law enforcement only hit their targets 18% of the time in emergency situations that armed school staff won't be doing any better and probably do worse and that is the training the teachers will be receiving, the same as law enforcement officers.

Stop attacking the messenger and start discussing the issues.

newschannel9.com...

The campaign group also argues that “an armed teacher is much more likely to shoot a student bystander or be shot by responding law enforcement than to be an effective solution to an active shooter in a school.”

A Covenant School mother at Tuesday’s senate session appeared to hold a similar view, saying teachers doing their job and following active-shooter training saved her kids from the shooter armed with an assault-style rifle.

"A handgun will do nothing against that," Beth Gebhard told The Tennessean. "If what had happened on March 27 had gone down the way that it did with a teacher armed with a handgun attempting to put the perpetrator out, my children would likely be dead."

Those teachers who do wish to carry a firearm will have to get an enhanced handgun carry permit and complete annual training with law enforcement.

www.aol.com...

Stop attacking the messenger and start discussing the issues.

One more point, Covenant school staff were armed but that didn't stop the shooting last year.

Covenant School employee on 911 call says school staff members carried guns

A person calling 911 from under a desk inside The Covenant School during Monday's shooting told police dispatch that the school had staff that carried firearms.

"We do have a school person, or two ... I'm not sure ... who would be packing, whose job it is for security," the woman said. "We don't have security guards, but we have staff."

www.tennessean.com...

And this...

Some firearm instructors and SROs say 40 hours of training is not enough for teachers and staff. But some Democrats like Representative John Ray Clemmons have a lot bigger concerns.

This is an effort to make schools safer, but state leaders are still raising questions if this bill is the answer.

fox17.com... education-schools

a reply to: quintessentone

If Police can only hit their targets 18% of the time, what would that percentage be for teachers?

I can give you 2 reasons for that, one of them specifically to do with New York cops.

1- many cops are not "gun guys". Just because you carry every day doesn't mean you're good with it. Depending on state and department policy, many only have to qualify every 6 months and other than that, they don't practice till they have to qualify.

2 - Until 2021 the duty weapons carried by New York cops had a 12 lb trigger pull. That is insanely heavy and will have a horrible effect on accuracy.