Changing sentiments of Ukrainian citizens

originally posted by: TheMisguidedAngel

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

Crimea has been part of Ukraine since the 1950s.

And Crimea was more then happy to join Russia

www.foreignaffairs.com...

www.washingtonpost.com...

Referendum conducted under occupation has zero legitimacy.

originally posted by: RickyD

Should have picked a better proxy like poland...ukraine isn't going to do it and russia will regain its breadbasket

Putin said the greatest world tragedy in the last 100+ years was Russia losing all its satellite counties, not something like WWI or WWII...lol

He wants the team back together again because back in the day they were No. 2 in the world, today they are like No. 11 and sinking fast with the war. Ukraine was also the Russian diamond to them, so it didn't matter what they did, or what the US or EU did, Putin was determined to get it back. He also wants Poland and many other countries too, so Ukraine was a litmus test since Russia had invaded several countries already to return them back under the motherland and the world didn't do a thing and he expected Ukraine to be the same.

So the US is not causing any of this since Putin would find some excuse to do it no matter what, but it opens up a window of opportunity for us. We are using about 5% of our military resources in this effort with huge returns as Ukraine will need to pay it all back over many decades.

originally posted by: TheMisguidedAngel

Russia vs NATO is indeed taking place with the Ukrainian civilian (some of them) paying the price.

For Ukraine, the other choice was for Russia to roflstomp them into the dirt and remove the government there putting the entire country under Russian military control.

Your statement above is like you are suggesting Ukraine was being used by the US and EU. It seems the attack by Russia and the massive destruction they are doing in Ukraine is a side point to this with you. Russia instigated and supported the fighting in Donbas for 8+ years and that had about 15,000 deaths from all sides either military, civilian etc. And they say that is why they are attacking now, but what is the cost of over a million lives now counting all sides? Russia doesn't care, they just want Ukraine back no matter the cost.

Russia let 30,000 soldiers become cannon fodder in December alone, and that was about 6000 Ukranians too. Civilians are either gone or dead at this point since there isn't a building standing anywhere. So, in one month it more than doubled the 8+ years in Donbas...do you really think Putin cares about anyone there including his own troops? Russia for many wars used the tactic of just throwing bodies in the war and if it is 10 of their deaths to 1 of the enemy that is OK as they still see it as a win if they are willing to spend millions and millions of lives for their objective.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I'm not sure how Ukraine will pay it back when they will need to ask for financial assistance to rebuild.

originally posted by: quintessentone

I'm not sure how Ukraine will pay it back when they will need to ask for financial assistance to rebuild.

How did England pay it back with massive rebuild support too? Ukraine has extremely large amounts of natural resources such as one of the largest natural gas reserves in the world. They are also huge in Agriculture as being one of the breadbaskets of the world. They also are one of the largest mineral producers in the world with mining. It's a huge country with great potential. Why do you think Russia wants it back as it is also their direct gateway to the EU with either energy or war?

The world is also looking at whether they take 500 billion in Russian bank money around the world and push it to Ukraine. Russia isn't happy with that option...

originally posted by: TheMisguidedAngel

And Crimea was more then happy to join Russia

Boy, talk about gaslighting...

You do know that Russia ran that election and said 97% voted to be with Russia once again with a 95% turnout... Kind of like a Putin win where they say 98% of the country votes for him. You don't see any wrong with an invading country that runs a quick election?

What about the 45% of the population there that considers themselves Ukrainian? Like the Donbas region, there is a higher concentration of people who identify as Russian, but 40%+ of the population in both areas do not. What about them?

What do you think the lower half of Texas identifies as...lol

a reply to: Xtrozero

The world is also looking at whether they take 500 billion in Russian bank money around the world and push it to Ukraine. Russia isn't happy with that option..

Hit Putin where it really hurts, his wallet.

Member Xtrozero hit the nail on the head when he said this...

Ukraine has extremely large amounts of natural resources such as one of the largest natural gas reserves in the world They are also huge in Agriculture as being one of the breadbaskets of the world. They also are one of the largest mineral producers in the world with mining. It's a huge country with great potential. Why do you think Russia wants it back as it is also their direct gateway to the EU with either energy or war?

This is what Mad Vlad wanted, and he thought his 'special operation' would last a few days, a month at most. Now 2 years on Ukraine has shown it's guts and determination and Russia has lost a lot more than Ukraine, because it's made Vlad a target now, You only have to look aat people like Yevgeny Prigozhin for that. He used to be untouchable, not any more..

a reply to: Xtrozero

Only 97%?!

Wonder what happened to the other 3%.

originally posted by: TheMisguidedAngel
The way the Ukrainian Nationalists and the Poroshenko Ukrainian government was treating the millions of ethnic Russian Ukrainians in the east, Putin showed a lot of restraint for not dropping bombs in 2014/15; when Poroshenko was bombing residential areas all Over the Donbass

Putin started the war there and supplied the separatists with all their military equipment and large numbers of soldiers too. They were about 50,000 strong fighting Ukraine and you complain about Ukraine bombing civilians?

About 14,000 people were killed in the war: 6,500 Russian and Russian proxy forces, 4,400 Ukrainian forces, and 3,400 civilians on both sides of the frontline.

This is 8+ years of fighting...How is Russia doing today in Ukraine with numbers as to how many they are killing and how many Russians are dying? At some point, you might realize that Putin didn't give a crap back then and still doesn't today if even millions die as long as he can get his objective of Ukraine back under the Motherland.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

Only 97%?!

Wonder what happened to the other 3%.

They needed it to look believable... lol

a reply to: quintessentone

"Hit Putin where it really hurts, his wallet."

Novichock? Polonium tea?

Would be nicely apt.

a reply to: Xtrozero

It didn't work!

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: quintessentone

"Hit Putin where it really hurts, his wallet."

Novichock? Polonium tea?

Would be nicely apt.

That would be an impossible dream. His wallet is more accessible.

a reply to: quintessentone

He could probably use his wallet to beat a whale to death ☠️

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: quintessentone

He could probably use his wallet to beat a whale to death ☠️

It might be something they may take up again in the future, to make money, when they can't invade other countries any more.

From 1964 to 1973, the Soviet Union was considered by some the biggest whaling nation in the world.

en.wikipedia.org...#:~:text=In%201959%2C%20the%20Soviets%20began,greater%20reliance%20on%20natural%20 resources).

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

It didn't work!

Well, it did for TheMisguidedAngel and others who say..."See! The people there wanted to be back under Russia". What is interesting about Crimia is that Putin thinks that is the place where Russians are descendants of.

In his March 18, 2014, speech, Vladimir Putin claimed that the peninsula had “a sacred and civilizational” meaning for Russia, being the alleged location of the baptism of Vladimir the Great, the ancient Prince of Kyiv.

Crimea, according to Putin, had always been “an integral part of Russia,” and its transfer to Soviet Ukraine was a mistake. Russia, therefore, was simply “robbed” after the dissolution of the Soviet Union when the peninsula stayed a part of Ukraine. The people of Crimea suffered from this injustice, Putin declared, and were especially affected by the attempts of the Ukrainian government to “assimilate them” by stripping them of their “historical memory” and “native language".

For Putin personally, retaking Crimea became his then most important legacy, which he hoped to be remembered by in history textbooks. Indeed, even some of Putin’s staunchest critics, including Alexei Navalny, admitted in 2014 that while what Putin did was illegal, Crimea was to stay with Russia for the foreseeable future (Navalny has since changed his opinion).

After absorbing Crimea, the Kremlin began recolonizing the peninsula. While tens of thousands of Crimean Tatars and Ukrainians relocated from Crimea after the 2014 annexation, a large influx of Russian citizens replaced them and took up residence on the peninsula. The remaining Crimean Tatars are often persecuted. The policies that caused displacement of the Crimean population and incentivized Russian recolonization of Crimea removed the potentially hostile population from the crucial militarized region and further reinforced the myth of Crimean inherent Russianness.

The successful legitimization of Crimean annexation through appeal to a historical claim opened a can of worms. Putin’s instrumentalization of history and religion for his political needs became even more brazen: if Russia is entitled to Crimea because of the Kyivan prince’s baptism there, then Russia is entitled to decide the fate of Kyiv and the entirety of Ukraine. With this logic, which Putin has repeatedly voiced in a number of articles and speeches, Russians and Ukrainians are the same people, only Russia is better and stronger.

a reply to: quintessentone

Hope not!

I think you should rename the thread to "Changing Sentiment of Russia"

www.dagens.com...

Uprising in Russia: Mobilized Soldiers' Wives Stand Firm Against Putin.

Russian women are increasingly demonstrating their rebellion against Russia's involvement in the war with Ukraine, and most importantly, against the mobilization of men. Wives of mobilized soldiers have formed a movement "The Way Back Home," aimed at persuading Putin to change his current war-related actions.

I see RT hasn't been back to his thread, He's posted his little propaganda piece and moved on as usaual.