A Texas judge grants a pregnant woman permission to get an abortion despite the state’s ban

a reply to: Xtrozero

So I have no insurance and I need very expensive meds, do I say the 2nd gives me the right to shoot the guy to get my meds? I need the meds or I die so it is just self-defense.

That's idiotic. Does the 2nd Amendment give you free guns? What if you can't afford a gun? Can you rob a gun store to get it?

For me, abortion is a sliding line... At first, it is 100% the woman's choice, but the longer it goes on that choice starts to slide away from the mother to include the unborn child.

That's not the issue of this thread. This thread is about the right to an abortion to save life or limb, in this case Kate Cox's uterus. It's not about whether the pregnancy was wanted or not.

Do you think Kate Cox had the right to an abortion, or not? Do you agree with the Texas high court rejection, or not?

For me, there reaches a point where both the child's and mother's rights are equal.

What does that have to do with the case at hand?

originally posted by: quintessentone

What freedom does the woman have other than abortion if that pregnancy will cause her undue harm?

She has that right even in Texas, and there have been a good number of abortions in Texas based on this. As others have shown there is more to this case than just the initial bias narrative. The woman could have gone to NM at any point too, or other states. She isn't poor as her doctor lives in Houston and she was in Dallas and spent time in Florida, so traveling for an abortion was an easy possibility for her.

We also need to understand people travel all the time for medical care.

originally posted by: quintessentone
For the woman, the woman's children and family by perhaps pushing them further into poverty, and poverty can also cause mental and bodily harms.

That is life, get over it buttercup.

We are talking about America too, just being born here is winning the lottery. Have you traveled around the world much? There are about 6 billion people who would trade places in a heartbeat with the struggles of your poor mother in America.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

What freedom does the woman have other than abortion if that pregnancy will cause her undue harm?

She has that right even in Texas, and there have been a good number of abortions in Texas based on this. As others have shown there is more to this case than just the initial bias narrative. The woman could have gone to NM at any point too, or other states. She isn't poor as her doctor lives in Houston and she was in Dallas and spent time in Florida, so traveling for an abortion was an easy possibility for her.

We also need to understand people travel all the time for medical care.

That was not the intent of my question.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone
For the woman, the woman's children and family by perhaps pushing them further into poverty, and poverty can also cause mental and bodily harms.

That is life, get over it buttercup.

We are talking about America too, just being born here is winning the lottery. Have you traveled around the world much? There are about 6 billion people who would trade places in a heartbeat with the struggles of your poor mother in America.

That's not for you or anyone else to judge another's reasons for abortion because everyone's situations in life are different. Some can handle it, others can not handle it. Again, undue harm.

a reply to: Xtrozero

She isn't poor as her doctor lives in Houston and she was in Dallas

I'm sure if there was a specialist closer to her, she would have used that specialist. I'm also pretty sure Kate Cox is insured, not rich.

The woman could have gone to NM at any point too, or other states. She isn't poor as her doctor lives in Houston and she was in Dallas and spent time in Florida, so traveling for an abortion was an easy possibility for her.

EASY? You think this was EASY for her and her family? You are ignorantly out of touch and hard core insensitive! Plus, now you can apply the 14th Amendment, equal protection under the law" but it doesn't help your argument.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

That's idiotic. Does the 2nd Amendment give you free guns? What if you can't afford a gun? Can you rob a gun store to get it?

Based on your logic, yes

That's not the issue of this thread. This thread is about the right to an abortion to save life or limb, in this case Kate Cox's uterus. It's not about whether the pregnancy was wanted or not.

And we have been shown there is more to it than that... If it was just that simple then she would have had an abortion in Texas without the court involved. She also could have gotten it a dozen other ways. You are acting like the State of Texas locked her up in a cell until she gave birth. She has always been free to do what she wanted to do.

originally posted by: quintessentone

That's not for you or anyone else to judge another's reasons for abortion because everyone's situations in life are different. Some can handle it, others can not handle it. Again, undue harm.

Yeah yeah we all have PTSD, I get it... Others call it life...

originally posted by: quintessentone

That was not the intent of my question.

Yes, a woman has the right to abort if her death or permanent physical harm is highly likely. She also should have the right to abort within the first 20 weeks from my viewpoint.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

That's not for you or anyone else to judge another's reasons for abortion because everyone's situations in life are different. Some can handle it, others can not handle it. Again, undue harm.

Yeah yeah we all have PTSD, I get it... Others call it life...

Others with PTSD put a gun to their heads and shoot.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

I'm sure if there was a specialist closer to her, she would have used that specialist. I'm also pretty sure Kate Cox is insured, not rich.

You do not need to be rich or even well-off to travel...lol Also, there is no specialist in Dallas/Fort Worth? My point was she was never handicapped by not being able to travel.

EASY? You think this was EASY for her and her family? You are ignorantly out of touch and hard core insensitive!

I meant traveling for an abortion was not the issue. Stop reading into my posts with your BS assumptions.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

I'm sure if there was a specialist closer to her, she would have used that specialist. I'm also pretty sure Kate Cox is insured, not rich.

You do not need to be rich or even well-off to travel...lol Also, there is no specialist in Dallas/Fort Worth? My point was she was never handicapped by not being able to travel.

EASY? You think this was EASY for her and her family? You are ignorantly out of touch and hard core insensitive!

I meant traveling for an abortion was not the issue. Stop reading into my posts with your BS assumptions.

Did it not occur to you that she and her husband were doing everything they could to keep/save this baby until they got the final medical prognosis from the doctor? Then the legal s**tstorm started, then time was not on their side.

This child was wanted.

a reply to: Xtrozero

there is no specialist in Dallas/Fort Worth?

Probably not, since abortion are mostly illegal, legally dangerous and extremely hard to get, I would imagine that the kind of specialist Kate Cox needed are few and far between. I mean, how many abortion clinics are there in Texas right now? Maybe in California, New York and Florida specialists easier to find, as their work doesn't threaten their lifestyles.

I meant traveling for an abortion was not the issue.

Of course it is! Not being able to access health care necessary to one's health because it's illegal in your state is an issue!

a reply to: Xtrozero

Based on your logic, yes

Not even close.

If it was just that simple then she would have had an abortion in Texas without the court involved.

IF it was up to Kate Cox, it would have been that way. But the hospital required the doctor to get court approval, and the doctor refused to allow herself and her staff to left vulnerable to Texas trap laws, that would prosecute and allow endless vigilante lawsuits, so she invoked federal protections and asked for a restraining order.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Xtrozero

there is no specialist in Dallas/Fort Worth?

Probably not, since abortion are mostly illegal, legally dangerous and extremely hard to get, I would imagine that the kind of specialist Kate Cox needed are few and far between. I mean, how many abortion clinics are there in Texas right now? Maybe in California, New York and Florida specialists easier to find, as their work doesn't threaten their lifestyles.

I meant traveling for an abortion was not the issue.

Of course it is! Not being able to access health care necessary to one's health because it's illegal in your state is an issue!

Don't forget she visited the emergency department 4X due to pain and leaking so just how well was she able to travel?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Xtrozero

Based on your logic, yes

Not even close.

If it was just that simple then she would have had an abortion in Texas without the court involved.

But the hospital required the doctor to get court approval, and the doctor refused to allow herself and her staff to left vulnerable to Texas trap laws, that would prosecute and allow endless vigilante lawsuits, so she invoked federal protections and asked for a restraining order.

I certainly don't blame the doctor.

She is as much a victim as the patient -- with these insane Christian based laws.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone
For the woman, the woman's children and family by perhaps pushing them further into poverty, and poverty can also cause mental and bodily harms.

That is life, get over it buttercup.

We are talking about America too, just being born here is winning the lottery. Have you traveled around the world much? There are about 6 billion people who would trade places in a heartbeat with the struggles of your poor mother in America.

That's not for you or anyone else to judge another's reasons for abortion because everyone's situations in life are different. Some can handle it, others can not handle it. Again, undue harm.

I agree completely with what you said because everyone has different circumstances. You never know what problem each one faces and having an abortion isn't an easy decision.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Xtrozero

Based on your logic, yes

Not even close.

If it was just that simple then she would have had an abortion in Texas without the court involved.

But the hospital required the doctor to get court approval, and the doctor refused to allow herself and her staff to left vulnerable to Texas trap laws, that would prosecute and allow endless vigilante lawsuits, so she invoked federal protections and asked for a restraining order.

I certainly don't blame the doctor.

She is as much a victim as the patient -- with these insane Christian based laws.

I suspect many of the doctors will be against the laws of Texas in relation to abortion and they are victims themselves of integrating the Christian doctrine in medicine.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

If the government wants women to have children then it should be at their expense - make women's and children's lives easier not push them into poverty and hardship. The government does not care about the welfare of women and children after the fact.

It will get to that. As the population collapses in the West there will be big incentives to have kids. In places like China, they will just push 2+ rules that all women for the greatness of their country will have 2+ kids otherwise one will be socially stigmatized and re-educated.

BTW poverty and hardship are a hell of a lot better than death.

I am not sure if you have made the right argument here. Take a look and reflect on what you said.

originally posted by: Mengelon

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone
For the woman, the woman's children and family by perhaps pushing them further into poverty, and poverty can also cause mental and bodily harms.

That is life, get over it buttercup.

We are talking about America too, just being born here is winning the lottery. Have you traveled around the world much? There are about 6 billion people who would trade places in a heartbeat with the struggles of your poor mother in America.

That's not for you or anyone else to judge another's reasons for abortion because everyone's situations in life are different. Some can handle it, others can not handle it. Again, undue harm.

I agree completely with what you said because everyone has different circumstances. You never know what problem each one faces and having an abortion isn't an easy decision.

So true, for some the decision to have an abortion will be a lifelong regret and they will beat themselves up for it. Others may not think of it as anything other than a medical procedure so they can get back to their life.

I heard on an independent news stations that there are now underground (black market) abortion services for women in states that abuse women's legal rights to abortion. How it sounded to me is that it is safer than what was available in the past because activist doctors are risking their freedom and careers to help women. This is how people respond to freedoms being taken away from them.