95% of World's Protests are Pro-Palestinian and Anti-Israel

a reply to: Wolfff

I prefer a world in which the most powerful nations govern based on democratic principles and human rights rather than religion or a totalitarian regime.

If I said no such nation exists would you label me a cynic or a realist?

I'm not certain what your point here is in relation to theocracies versus more democratic forms of government.

What you label 'democratic forms of government' I see as corporatocracies (sp?) whose new age religion comes down to the craziness we see these days. Wokeism, identity politics, cancel culture etc so basically theocracy dressed up in modern clothing.

The elites are the priests.

The system is god.

You and me are part of the great, unwashed masses who are undeserving of government's all-knowing wisdom and we should castrate ourselves before them, grateful that they provide guidance in their infinite wisdom to wretches like us.

a reply to: Wolfff

I expect Israel to actually defend its borders and not throw their citizens to the wolves in order to gain what they mistakenly perceive as future political leverage to do as they please and get away with it because Netanyahu will sacrifice his own people to save his flagging career.

They are a tiny country, they have the 4th largest army in the world. The Gaza strip is the most surveiled place on earth. The Intel was good.

It was allowed to happen.

a reply to: 19Bones79

they have the 4th largest army in the world.

I think that's misleading, 4 largest per capita isn't that big after all...
Don't # around with mossad though

a reply to: Terpene

I think that's misleading

Thanks for correcting me on that, just goes to show that there's misleading information all around us.

I won't be using that statement again.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
If I said no such nation exists would you label me a cynic or a realist?

What you label 'democratic forms of government' I see as corporatocracies (sp?) whose new age religion comes down to the craziness we see these days. Wokeism, identity politics, cancel culture etc so basically theocracy dressed up in modern clothing.

A cynical realist or a realistic cynic; makes no difference to the fact that people still have to live somewhere. Nations still seem to be the best choice for people to live versus...an undiscovered island? And corporatocracies, such as they may be, are still the best choice of nations if they are democratic in nature (is any economically competitive country these days not a corporatocracy?). This is why so many people (including activists, dissidents, Muslims, atheists, ordinary folks who want a better life, etc.) leave nations with a theocracy or totalitarian government and come to...democratic corporatocracies.

Wokeism, identity politics, cancel culture etc are movements that have been going on in some form or another for a long time now in the form of progressive liberalism. In a democracy with a system in place recognizing things like free speech, the right to assemble (not to mention sue!), the right of due process, etc., I have some kind of chance of fighting ideological and literal abuses or excesses (and not starving to death in the meantime).

You and me are part of the great, unwashed masses who are undeserving of government's all-knowing wisdom and we should castrate ourselves before them, grateful that they provide guidance in their infinite wisdom to wretches like us.

And the only options against such a dystopia are to fight, submit, or die. If one chooses to fight, there aren't nearly as many options in a totalitarian government as in a democratic one. In other words, if I have to fight for my life and rights in a theocracy like, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia, or a totalitarian regime like, say, Russia or China, I wouldn't even be permitted to speak on the streets let alone protest (I may not even be allowed on the streets at all.) So if I have to castrate myself before some kind of government, then I'm still going to choose a system other than totalitarianism or a theocracy (which are and would be filled with just as many greedy materialist power hungry maniacs as any other nation of flawed human animals).

To paraphrase a very wise man, there's no perfect government, only compromise.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Wolfff

I expect Israel to actually defend its borders and not throw their citizens to the wolves in order to gain what they mistakenly perceive as future political leverage to do as they please and get away with it because Netanyahu will sacrifice his own people to save his flagging career.

They are a tiny country, they have the 4th largest army in the world. The Gaza strip is the most surveiled place on earth. The Intel was good.

It was allowed to happen.

If it was allowed to happen that's a matter for the Israelis and their government, the same as any other nation. But the "honey pot" idea is still the same: if I leave the door of my house open, the person who comes in and steals is still a thief. It's not illegal to leave my door unlocked; it is illegal to steal. It's not illegal under international law for a country to not defend its borders properly (obviously); it is illegal under international law for Hamas, a political and military organization governing the Gaza Strip, to violate a country's borders in order to kill, torture, and kidnap its civilians.

When a cop sets up a car for a thief to steal, the set up depends upon the thief being a thief--being criminal enough to steal the car in the first place, and careless or stupid enough to get caught. If no one wants to steal the car, it just sits there, and the honey pot fails.

That's why theocracies are some of the most dangerous forms of government, which history more than proves. If God himself demands that you steal that car, and every other car that doesn't drive with your God at the wheel, that's a lot of very bloody honey pots sitting all over the globe. Hence the virulent antisemitism going on now--not, mind you, anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel actions and policy, but raw unfiltered kill the Jews hatred. Which is not workable in a diverse, secular nation.

a reply to: Wolfff

And corporatocracies, such as they may be, are still the best choice of nations if they are democratic in nature (is any economically competitive country these days not a corporatocracy?).

If the 0.1% at the top are like gods unto the people, then corporatocracies are still theocratic in nature, due to the fact that anything handed down from above becomes 'the new normal'.

Which means that they are more sinister in their flexibility and allows them to create 180 degrees turns by decree which a traditional theocracy cannot achieve.

For example the same people who proclaimed my body, my choice when killing the unborn were for vaccine mandates completely denying their previous mantra to a man-made disease so they could profit from the vaccine and enforce rigid lock down rules crushing small business and acquire ever more power as they conditioned people towards a future where you will own nothing and eat bugs.

Anything decree that kills people and creates profit is now the way forward.

And in these corporatocracies the people are played up against each other, all sides being manipulated by their unflinching beliefs.

When it suited the narrative, liberals and their brand of madness were promoted.

Now the religious/conservatives are being brought back in the limelight with the crisis in the Middle East. You've got whack jobs like Michael Rappaport suddenly endorsing Trump over Biden.

People only think it's better because it's the devil they know, supposedly.

This devil has yet to reveal itself completely.

It won't be the traditional theocracies that bring mankind to its knees.

It will be the "enlightened", "civilized" West.

a reply to: Wolfff

I have some kind of chance of fighting ideological and literal abuses or excesses (and not starving to death in the meantime).

I strongly disagree with the first part of your statement.

As for the latter in brackets, I suppose being poisoned over the years is preferable to starvation.

a reply to: Wolfff

And the only options against such a dystopia are to fight, submit, or die. If one chooses to fight, there aren't nearly as many options in a totalitarian government as in a democratic one.

Except it is a totalitarian government when it suits them, January 6 comes to mind.

Vaccine mandates comes to mind.

Forever wars comes to mind.

The federal reserve as an indestructible Ivory Tower enslaving future generations comes to mind.

The appearance of a democracy is what gives the elite a dangerous edge over traditional totalitarianism because it breeds complacency whereas within a traditional totalitaristic state the discontent of the struggling masses eventually topple those governments.

A wolf in sheep's clothing is more cunning than just a wolf being a wolf.

People don't understand the levels of Mimicry and Camouflage we are dealing with here.

Nobody wants to fight their governments in the West because they have made peace with not starving as the height of civilization.

a reply to: Wolfff

If it was allowed to happen that's a matter for the Israelis and their government, the same as any other nation. But the "honey pot" idea is still the same: if I leave the door of my house open, the person who comes in and steals is still a thief. It's not illegal to leave my door unlocked; it is illegal to steal.

Interesting "honey pot" analogy.

What if people came from far away, took your house, killed your family members and pushed you into a house that keeps shrinking all the while having the power to cut your water and electricity.

Would you fight back even though you had rudimentary tools at your disposal?

Even though the people that stole your house had superior weaponry?

Would you feel as though you had a right to fight back against your occupiers that hold the power of God over you?

And then when things are darkest they decide the tiny place you have left have valuable minerals so they allow you to plan and execute a tiny attack on your original territory in order to justify to the rest of the the world why you are animals and deserve to be wiped out?

What would you do or say then?

a reply to: Wolfff

That's why theocracies are some of the most dangerous forms of government

I contend that the most dangerous theocracies do not even go by that description and has fooled its people into believing they have "rights" and the power to choose.

None of the theocracies you speak of has the power to wipe out mankind.

The theocracies I speak of only need to push a button once.

The level of power we're talking about here is no longer national or subject to any kind of traditional government. It's global, and power players from every nation of any importance are involved. At that level, domestic national concerns and citizens are an afterthought at best, irrelevant, in the way, or cannon fodder at worst. It's always been this way, and robotics and AI are set to make that even more so. The future world will need less people.

However, down on the ground, the still living food eaters are still subject to some kind of rule. There's no way around that one. And on the ground, the nation I live in (a democratic republic) is a far better choice (for me) than a totalitarian or theological system of governing. As for people being played against each other and manipulated, that's going on in every nation.

And most of mankind has always been on its knees in between struggling to our feet. It always will be this way for material forms that must keep a body alive. The long historical trick is to move forward the best we can, even if it's on the ground, amongst each other and a pile of rubble.

Except it is a totalitarian government when it suits them, January 6 comes to mind.

Vaccine mandates comes to mind.

Forever wars comes to mind.

The federal reserve as an indestructible Ivory Tower enslaving future generations comes to mind.

All true; and yet here we still are, fighting, discussing, resisting, voting, debating. Already suing the # out of our government for the vaccine mandates. Forever wars have been going on forever, it's just who's in charge at any given time. In a totalitarian government the Jan. 6th crowd would have been gunned to the ground from the first or disappeared into prison never to be heard from again. Which all would have happened long before they got to the Capital; long before they could "vote" at all. That's a whole lot of difference than just not starving.

The appearance of a democracy is what gives the elite a dangerous edge over traditional totalitarianism because it breeds complacency whereas within a traditional totalitaristic state the discontent of the struggling masses eventually topple those governments.

Complacency is a very dangerous condition of democracies, because they do work so well in comparison. But even when the masses topple totalitarian governments, the fallout can leave a vacuum that brings even more war and suffering (i.e. the Soviet Union). Once the masses topple a totalitarian government, what kind do they then choose?

What if people came from far away, took your house, killed your family members and pushed you into a house that keeps shrinking all the while having the power to cut your water and electricity.

Would you fight back even though you had rudimentary tools at your disposal?

Even though the people that stole your house had superior weaponry?

Would you feel as though you had a right to fight back against your occupiers that hold the power of God over you?

And then when things are darkest they decide the tiny place you have left have valuable minerals so they allow you to plan and execute a tiny attack on your original territory in order to justify to the rest of the the world why you are animals and deserve to be wiped out?

What would you do or say then?

Of course I would fight back, and feel that I have a right. And then a war, guerrilla or otherwise, would ensue, and the nation or place where I live would either win or lose. If I'm lucky, the winners would not wish to either kill or convert me, and I'd at least still be alive to either keep fighting, emigrate, or assimilate to a new nation or government. That's the way warfare works, there's no other way than not engage in warfare, "tiny" or not.

I contend that the most dangerous theocracies do not even go by that description and has fooled its people into believing they have "rights" and the power to choose.

Then does any nation's people have rights and the power to choose? If not, then the only thing that matters is how long I survive and how much I do or do not suffer until I die. I'd rather do that in a democratic republic than any other kind of government offered thus far.

None of the theocracies you speak of has the power to wipe out mankind.

The theocracies I speak of only need to push a button once.

As far as I've learned, around 30% of the world's nukes are deployed with operational forces, and more than 90% are owned by either Russia or the United States. So if it comes down to that, we're all screwed no matter what form of government we think is best.

a reply to: Wolfff

What I understand from your reply is that you are content in the belief that your chains are slightly more shiny than what some other people are wearing.

In that scenario you have a higher perch to fall from and will hit the ground much harder.

Especially now since the 'democratic republics' are importing those very people.

a reply to: Wolfff

That's a whole lot of difference than just not starving

You've set the bar at its lowest performance indicator. Go back a decade. Then another. Then another. And so on.

Do you see the trend?

Complacency is a very dangerous condition of democracies

It's not complacency in democracies.

It's the inevitable crash of those democracies due to the financial setup that is designed to squeeze the life out of it, always tightening it's control over the people.

The debt is impossible to repay and then they demand sacrifice in blood.

a reply to: Wolfff

Then we are in agreement the Palestinians have a right, oppressed as they are to fight their oppressors.

a reply to: Wolfff

Perhaps I should find a resigned acceptance that we are screwed like you have.

Is this the path to wisdom then?

A nihilistic acceptance of the futility of it all because we are powerless?

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Wolfff

Then we are in agreement the Palestinians have a right, oppressed as they are to fight their oppressors.

Yep. And they have the "right" to lose the fight, too.