Israeli Politician admits 12,000 Palestinians have died so far but... they're mostly terrorists!

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: CaptainX
The intent is clear as seen by many around the world who are asking Netanyahou and his Government to be arrested for crimes against humanity and war crimes.

That's their anti-semitic opinion only.

That's a super argument!
I am glad you finally played the anti-semitic card.
Anyone who argues against the crimes committed by Israel and challenges their policies is by the new definition an anti-semite.

So we are talking about a large part of the world's population...

a reply to: CaptainX

How many times have you been banned from here?

By your logic .... If it's just 'my opinion' that Israel doesn't have intent to genocide the Palestinians, then it's just their OPINION that Israel is engaged in war crimes.

Obviously Israel doesn't have INTENT to genocide the Palestinians. If it did, there would be many more dead than there are and the aid wouldn't be getting in. That is common sense devoid of anti-semitism.

Reminder - INTENT is the key word.

UN.ORG

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

- Killing members of the group;
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

originally posted by: CaptainX
a reply to: Lazy88

The world has been looking at this since the 7th of October and it's beyond any doubt that both sides have committed atrocities. Lies and propaganda are part of the any war but nobody can whitewash the crimes committed by either Hamad or Israel.

Israel is quite clear on what they attack and why.

It is quite clear how and to what extent Hamas lies as documented in the Al-Ahli Arab hospital parking lot incident.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Israeli politicians have called to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth.

Israel is not allowing enough food and water to keep people alive

Israel has bombed hospitals

Israel has left 80% of civilians homeless

Reasonable people call that intent!

originally posted by: Daughter2v2
Israeli politicians have called to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth.

A few have. Palestinians are calling for the genocide of Israel so naturally some will want to kill off the Palestinians before they can do that. However ... the POLICY OF ISREAL is not genocide. Just the opposite. If the policy was to kill off Palestinians there would be a hell of a lot more dead than there are.

Israel is not allowing enough food and water to keep people alive

Yes it is. And if the people of Gaza wanted better living conditions then they shouldn't have put Hamas, a terrorist organization, in charge.

Israel has bombed hospitals

No it hasn't.

Israel has left 80% of civilians homeless

Um ... no. Half of Gaza has had to relocate from North to South. Many of them are now homeless. That is because of HAMAS using civilian infrastructure as part of their terrorist network. Put the blame where it belongs - on Hamas. Hell ... you can put it on the Palestinians themselves as well since they are the ones who put Hamas in control of Gaza. You get what you vote for.

Reasonable people call that intent!

No. Look ... I'm sure you are a nice person with a big heart. But you are missing the fact that all this is the fault of Hamas, and the Palestinians themselves for putting Hamas in charge. Israel has a right to defend itself. You keep ignoring the fact that if Israel doesn't go after Hamas, Hamas has promised to keep hitting Israel again and again until it no longer exists.

originally posted by: CaptainX

The legal definition is defined as follows

According to the Convention, genocide is a crime that can take place both in time of war as well as in time of peace. The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part.

With emphasis on 'in whole or in part'.
You don't need to wipe out the entire group of people to commit genocide. As long as you kill and destroy a number of them (obviously compared to their population)

One would think in part would mean a large percentage of them, also where do the refugees fall into any of this as a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group to say the intent is that? They are basically Jordanian and many are Egyptians whom neither country wanted, especially Jordan who should have included them all when it became a country.

You all also miss a key point in " intent to destroy" so unless people are suggesting this applies to Hamas which is their focus..i.e. their intent, then none of it applies. Maybe with Turkey and the Kurds, or Saudi with Yemen, or even the Chinese

originally posted by: Daughter2v2
a reply to: FlyersFan

Israeli politicians have called to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth.

Israel is not allowing enough food and water to keep people alive

Israel has bombed hospitals

Israel has left 80% of civilians homeless

Reasonable people call that intent!

Then the elected government of Gaza shouldn’t have stated a war with Israel cowering under, in, and around hospitals which is a war crime.

The “shot” that started this was Hamas the government of Gaza sanctioned murder, rape, torture, hostage taking of children that Hamas just murdered their parents, and illegally using human shields.

a reply to: Daughter2v2

What happen when Israel tried to make a “citizen’s arrest” of Hamas illegally using hospitals as human shields.


Rocket launcher fired at Israeli forces from Gaza hospital, IDF claims

a reply to: Daughter2v2

"Israeli politicians have called to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth."

A couple have but they are nutjobs who do not dictate official policy and it's not happening.

"Israel is not allowing enough food and water to keep people alive".

Yes they are.

"Israel has bombed hospitals".

No it hasn't.

"Israel has left 80% of civilians homeless".

Source?

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: CaptainX

How many times have you been banned from here?

By your logic .... If it's just 'my opinion' that Israel doesn't have intent to genocide the Palestinians, then it's just their OPINION that Israel is engaged in war crimes.

Obviously Israel doesn't have INTENT to genocide the Palestinians. If it did, there would be many more dead than there are and the aid wouldn't be getting in. That is common sense devoid of anti-semitism.

Reminder - INTENT is the key word.

UN.ORG

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

- Killing members of the group;
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

You seem to not understand the definitions of war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide and ethnic cleansing.

You don't have to kill everyone in a particular group to be charged with genocide. The fact is that your opinion is biased because you unequivocally support Israel. The reality however is that Israel has committed war crimes and crimes against humanity and violates international law again and again.

This has been raised by various politicians and lawmakers, human rights lawyers, the UN, Amnestry International and a range of groups and individuals all over the world.

In fact a few days ago the South African Government a few days ago has asked for Netanyahou and his Government to be arrested and brought up before the ICC

South African government on Monday called on the International Criminal Court to issue an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu by mid-December.

Minister in the Presidency Khumbudzo Ntshavheni said it would signal a "total failure" of global governance if the ICC does not do so.

"The world cannot simply stand by and watch. The global community needs to rise to stop this genocide now," said Ntshavheni.

www.africanews.com...

a reply to: FlyersFan

According to the Convention, genocide is a crime that can take place both in time of war as well as in time of peace. The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part.

Again, particular emphasis on 'in whole or in part'.

Your argument that there should be many more dead if Israel was targeting civilians is just bogus and shows your attempt to whitewash the crimes committee by Israel.

amp.theguardian.com...

According to the independent Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor, which is chaired by US emeritus law professor and former UN special rapporteur on Palestine, Richard Falk, the civilian death toll as of 20 November is 16,413, with nearly 34,000 injured. This would mean one in every 142 Palestinian civilians killed in a month and a half

That's around 1 in 140 civilians who have been killed without discussing how many have been badly injured or injured altogether (34,000 according to the article).

Let's see what 1 in 140 means taking for example the US Population of around 340,000,000

That's 2,428,571 people.


Intent to destroy is clear on both sides either it's Hamas or the Israeli Army and their Politicians (some of them). All you need to do is take a look at their genocidal rhetoric where they ask for Gaza to be burned, erased from the face of the Earth, and even nuked.

a reply to: CP134

Here we go again.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: CaptainX

The legal definition is defined as follows

According to the Convention, genocide is a crime that can take place both in time of war as well as in time of peace. The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part.

With emphasis on 'in whole or in part'.
You don't need to wipe out the entire group of people to commit genocide. As long as you kill and destroy a number of them (obviously compared to their population)

One would think in part would mean a large percentage of them, also where do the refugees fall into any of this as a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group to say the intent is that? They are basically Jordanian and many are Egyptians whom neither country wanted, especially Jordan who should have included them all when it became a country.

You all also miss a key point in " intent to destroy" so unless people are suggesting this applies to Hamas which is their focus..i.e. their intent, then none of it applies. Maybe with Turkey and the Kurds, or Saudi with Yemen, or even the Chinese

Yes it is a large part of them that has been killed, and the number has been estimated to be 16,413. More will die in the future and nobody will get resurrected. We know that for sure.

From the post above
That's around 1 in 140 civilians who have been killed without discussing how many have been badly injured or injured altogether (34,000 according to the article).

Let's see what 1 in 140 means taking for example the US Population of around 340,000,000

That's 2,428,571 people.

Intent to destroy is clear on both sides either it's Hamas or the Israeli Army and their Politicians (some of them). All you need to do is take a look at their genocidal rhetoric where they ask for Gaza to be burned, erased from the face of the Earth, and even nuked.

Yep here you go

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: CP134

Here we go again.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

a reply to: Vaeded

And another.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Say .isn't that about the size of populous in Gaza? Who would thought?

originally posted by: CP134

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: CaptainX

The legal definition is defined as follows

According to the Convention, genocide is a crime that can take place both in time of war as well as in time of peace. The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part.

With emphasis on 'in whole or in part'.
You don't need to wipe out the entire group of people to commit genocide. As long as you kill and destroy a number of them (obviously compared to their population)

One would think in part would mean a large percentage of them, also where do the refugees fall into any of this as a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group to say the intent is that? They are basically Jordanian and many are Egyptians whom neither country wanted, especially Jordan who should have included them all when it became a country.

You all also miss a key point in " intent to destroy" so unless people are suggesting this applies to Hamas which is their focus..i.e. their intent, then none of it applies. Maybe with Turkey and the Kurds, or Saudi with Yemen, or even the Chinese

Yes it is a large part of them that has been killed, and the number has been estimated to be 16,413. More will die in the future and nobody will get resurrected. We know that for sure.

From the post above
That's around 1 in 140 civilians who have been killed without discussing how many have been badly injured or injured altogether (34,000 according to the article).

Let's see what 1 in 140 means taking for example the US Population of around 340,000,000

That's 2,428,571 people.

Intent to destroy is clear on both sides either it's Hamas or the Israeli Army and their Politicians (some of them). All you need to do is take a look at their genocidal rhetoric where they ask for Gaza to be burned, erased from the face of the Earth, and even nuked.

a reply to: Vaeded

Silly boy.

originally posted by: CP134
Yes it is a large part of them that has been killed, and the number has been estimated to be 16,413. More will die in the future and nobody will get resurrected. We know that for sure.

We can say 15,000 total have been killed for argument's sake. Your number gets pushed around a lot, but is someone's estimate to include by their opinion there are many 1000s dead not discovered yet, so let's say 15,000. Do you see that as many when we are talking 2.5 million if the overall goal was to wipe them out? Working towards wiping them out would be genocide.

Let's see what 1 in 140 means taking for example the US Population of around 340,000,000

That's 2,428,571 people.

That is a horrible argument in we are not talking percentages here I could also say if the population was 145 and 1 person was killed that would also be genocide, so if 15,000 Americans were killed would you be screaming genocide too? People are throwing around numbers like a used car salesman trying to trigger you on one of them.

Intent to destroy is clear on both sides whether it's Hamas or the Israeli Army and their Politicians (some of them). All you need to do is take a look at their genocidal rhetoric where they ask for Gaza to be burned, erased from the face of the Earth, and even nuked.

Yes, they want to destroy an evil terrorist group who are willing to kill anyone including the people living in Gaza. A few crazies with some rhetoric are not Genocide as that is an action. Gaza is cheering the killing of all Jews and removing Israel from all maps, is that genocide?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: CP134
Yes it is a large part of them that has been killed, and the number has been estimated to be 16,413. More will die in the future and nobody will get resurrected. We know that for sure.

We can say 15,000 total have been killed for argument's sake. Your number gets pushed around a lot, but is someone's estimate to include by their opinion there are many 1000s dead not discovered yet, so let's say 15,000. Do you see that as many when we are talking 2.5 million if the overall goal was to wipe them out? Working towards wiping them out would be genocide.

Let's see what 1 in 140 means taking for example the US Population of around 340,000,000

That's 2,428,571 people.

That is a horrible argument in we are not talking percentages here I could also say if the population was 145 and 1 person was killed that would also be genocide, so if 15,000 Americans were killed would you be screaming genocide too? People are throwing around numbers like a used car salesman trying to trigger you on one of them.

Intent to destroy is clear on both sides whether it's Hamas or the Israeli Army and their Politicians (some of them). All you need to do is take a look at their genocidal rhetoric where they ask for Gaza to be burned, erased from the face of the Earth, and even nuked.

Yes, they want to destroy an evil terrorist group who are willing to kill anyone including the people living in Gaza. A few crazies with some rhetoric are not Genocide as that is an action. Gaza is cheering the killing of all Jews and removing Israel from all maps, is that genocide?

You made a long post but you haven't said anything useful or anything new. Just going around in cycles. And the percentage I have given you or the fraction of 1 in 140 civilians who have been killed shows precisely the magnitude of the slaughter in Gaza.

You may have noticed (or maybe not) that the South African Government has asked for Netanyahou and his Government to be arrested for crimes against humanity, war crimes, and genocide.

www.africanews.com...

The South African government on Monday called on the International Criminal Court to issue an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu by mid-December.

Minister in the Presidency Khumbudzo Ntshavheni said it would signal a "total failure" of global governance if the ICC does not do so.

"The world cannot simply stand by and watch. The global community needs to rise to stop this genocide now," said Ntshavheni.

It's clear what they're saying and I think they know better what genocide and Apartheid means.

And no! The aim doesn't justify the means! You can't reply to war crimes with war crimes. How many times we have to say this??