The absurdity of the fraud case against Trump

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: Threadbare
a reply to: stevieray

Trump isn't trying to sell these properties. He's not even trying to use them as collateral. He's claiming them as assets. By overvaluing them to banks it makes the worth of his company look better and as a result the bank may be more willing to provide a loan or offer a better rate.

If the bank offers him a better rate based offer the overinflated value if his company that is turn defrauding the bank of money that they would've received through the increased interest.

Are you dense? Because you must be dense.

The banks have entire divisions dedicated to appraising properties.

THEY DON’T GO BY WHAT A CUSTOMER WILL VALUE A PROPERTY AT.

We’re simply getting into deep lying here.

They just say anything now, so desperate to see the destruction of Trump that they’ve been dreaming of for 7 years.

Yeah there is no point of even debating this bullsh!t anymore with these few members here.
Either they are just completely stupid or they are just knowingly continuing to post these false narratives on purpose.
One or the other.

a reply to: network dude

You go girl! You got's traction!

originally posted by: Threadbare
a reply to: Waterglass

I'm literally taking my information the assessment done by the Palm Beach asessor. You know? The person whose job it is to provide valuations in that area.

I'm sure Trump's team is already digging around into the assessor's background. Maybe they'll even find bribes involved for certain property assessment values. They sound shady.

originally posted by: CanadianLoudMouth

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: CanadianLoudMouth

originally posted by: network dude
This is what all of this is about according to the source:

James brought the $250 million lawsuit last September, alleging that Trump and his co-defendants committed fraud in inflating assets on financial statements to get better terms on commercial real estate loans and insurance policies.

link to source

If that is wrong, please explain why.

Now, when you get a loan, be it commercial or residential, the entity you are trying to borrow money from or purchase insurance from, has a duty on their end to evaluate the property and confirm what they say the value is. If they do not, then they alone will be left holding the bag if the borrower defaults, or insurance must pay out. To do this, they use appraisers. Appraisers use comparable sales to value property among other tools.

Once you know all that, and you ask, Did Trump default on his loan or recieve a total payout on a property? It seems not. So who has been wronged here? The only answer I can come up with is Trump, for being made to answer for such idiotic charges.

Jack Smith must not feel very good about his case, nor the Georgia case. Folks are getting sloppy.

I don't disagree that it would be on the loan agency/bank to do their due diligence, but regardless of that it's still fraud to lie about the value of your holdings in legal documents. The application would be considered a legal document. Is it that black and white? No, not at all but that's the legal angle they are coming from.

At what point do they need to prove the intent to defraud, or that fraud took place ? If they can’t prove either, it’s nothing but a belief / opinion.

If you try and sell a car for more than the blue book value, is it a crime ? Would all car dealers get arrested for selling a car for more than they should have ? Or for even putting too high a price on the window ? This is precisely what Trump is charged with.
There should be a massive class action suit against all car dealers in this jurisdiction.

As far as I know, people selling things on the open market have always tried to get as much as they can get for their property.

I never knew that a government could tell you that you have to sell your property for a specific amount, or you get arrested.

The famous old line on value is “whatever somebody is willing to pay”. This approach is a crime for anybody, with the Trump example.

Also, what constitutes “priceless” ? This concept has always meant the seller can name whatever number they want, take it leave it. Using this case as an example, this is a crime too.

If you can’t be honest that this a fully invented crime for political purposes, that’s on you.

The 18 million that the judge valued Mar a Lago for, should get him arrested and tried immediately. Reputable professionals in that area say it’s worth between half a billion and one billion. Shouldn’t matter if you lied too high or low.
It’s pretty clear that the judge has a future step in mind, in this pillaging of Trump. He set the value so low so that it’ll sell really fast through receivership, giving Trump no time to fight it.

And how is a judge acting as a real estate appraiser legal either ? He isn’t licensed or trained or educated in the business. He’s doing nothing more than extending his courtroom authority out to running a scam to seize private properties. This is no way legal.

In my humble opinion that's not what Trump is being charged with. We all know when it comes to vehicle sales, prices on the window are a starting point for negotiations.

Those are not put into a legal document. That's the difference I think.

The judge never acted as an appraiser. He took the value from the taxation agency. To state that the judge used this number based on his own opinion was wrong. He took it from the tax people.

You’ll have to show us some proof of that.

A tax department that makes its revenue on highest possible accurate valuation, calling a likely half billion dollar property, 18 million instead ? That’s about one thirtieth/ one fortieth of the real value. Tax offices don’t do this.

Looks like you’re playing fast and loose with the facts. How bad are you willing to look in your fantasy of the destruction of this guy ?

And false inflated numbers for cars get layered into contract documents all day every day. Then sent to banks for loans (lmao, just like the Trump charges).
You’re not even trying to have an above-board discussion here. Just fake points to feel better about your dreams of Trump hate.

a reply to: Deetermined

You mean Trump's team that in 2020 argued that the assessor's valuation of $26 million was too high?

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: JIMC5499

If they can’t prove either, it’s nothing but a belief / opinion.

Yep. That's what I said earlier too. The Dems are going to turn the definition of their beliefs and opinions into FACT and anyone who says otherwise should be penalized.

That may be the way the laws are written. They can charge anyone with pretty much anything if they hate them enough.

The opposite is on display with Biden. Even if they prove he's corrupt, the way the corruption statutes are written it's essentially legal to be corrupt. Democrats will just point to that and move on. They're okay with supporting a corrupt person as long as he's got a D after his name.

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: Threadbare
a reply to: stevieray

Trump isn't trying to sell these properties. He's not even trying to use them as collateral. He's claiming them as assets. By overvaluing them to banks it makes the worth of his company look better and as a result the bank may be more willing to provide a loan or offer a better rate.

If the bank offers him a better rate based offer the overinflated value if his company that is turn defrauding the bank of money that they would've received through the increased interest.

Are you dense? Because you must be dense.

The banks have entire divisions dedicated to appraising properties.

THEY DON’T GO BY WHAT A CUSTOMER WILL VALUE A PROPERTY AT.

We’re simply getting into deep lying here.

They just say anything now, so desperate to see the destruction of Trump that they’ve been dreaming of for 7 years.

Yeah there is no point of even debating this bullsh!t anymore with these few members here.
Either they are just completely stupid or they are just knowingly continuing to post these false narratives on purpose.
One or the other.

It's mostly the latter. There's some useful idiots around, but many of them know they're full of it. But there's a reason communism tries to take down religion. They want you to worship the ideology instead of any god. Once you worship the ideology, you'll do anything for it.

originally posted by: Threadbare
a reply to: Deetermined

You mean Trump's team that in 2020 argued that the assessor's valuation of $26 million was too high?

Umm got any more details than “Trumps team” ?
And “they argued” ?

a reply to: Threadbare

I sent you a link so you ignored it. A tried and true Democrat aka 4th Reich participant. I have never read anything so off base, fraudulent, corrupt and foolish.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: Threadbare
a reply to: stevieray

Trump isn't trying to sell these properties. He's not even trying to use them as collateral. He's claiming them as assets. By overvaluing them to banks it makes the worth of his company look better and as a result the bank may be more willing to provide a loan or offer a better rate.

If the bank offers him a better rate based offer the overinflated value if his company that is turn defrauding the bank of money that they would've received through the increased interest.

Are you dense? Because you must be dense.

The banks have entire divisions dedicated to appraising properties.

THEY DON’T GO BY WHAT A CUSTOMER WILL VALUE A PROPERTY AT.

We’re simply getting into deep lying here.

They just say anything now, so desperate to see the destruction of Trump that they’ve been dreaming of for 7 years.

Yeah there is no point of even debating this bullsh!t anymore with these few members here.
Either they are just completely stupid or they are just knowingly continuing to post these false narratives on purpose.
One or the other.

It's mostly the latter. There's some useful idiots around, but many of them know they're full of it. But there's a reason communism tries to take down religion. They want you to worship the ideology instead of any god. Once you worship the ideology, you'll do anything for it.

There are definitely people who have nothing going on other than the hobby of being annoying, getting a reaction, the thrill of lying to people’s faces, and so on. We’ve all seen them at work, school, the gym, etc.
Generally the odd ducks that just don’t fit in. Looking for some unhealthy way to push their way into a conversation when they can’t contribute anything useful.

originally posted by: Threadbare
a reply to: Deetermined

You mean Trump's team that in 2020 argued that the assessor's valuation of $26 million was too high?

Personally, I would like to see the paperwork from BOTH sides showing how each of them came to their conclusions. Clear down to the formula and explanation for how and why a club should be valued differently than any other property. It's no wonder why this is going to drag out for "months". I'm pretty sure the prosecutor's strategy will be to baffle and confuse in order to hide their true intentions and incompetence on these issues.

a reply to: Threadbare

How about Forbes? I would think they know more about Global Real EState than a judge....

Link

2018 -

Today Forbes values Mar-a-Lago—admittedly one of the most difficult assets in the Trump portfolio to price—at $160 million, or 16 times what Trump paid for it. It’s unclear how much money the president has invested in, or taken out of, the property over the years.

So is it 18, or 180 or 380?

It is a registered historical landmark which means it cannot be developed. The reason he did not get zoning is that the locals did not want him there.

This place just sold for 54 million....just down the street....not even close to MAL in land or history.

www.zillow.com...

Why don't we let the evidence and the courts decide.

a reply to: matafuchs

The judge didn't provide a valuation. They were citing the valuation made by the Palm Beach assessor. I don't get why you guys are struggling so much with this fact despite it being reiterated over and over.

originally posted by: SourGrapes
Can/will Trump lose Mara Lago, or other properties? Can the judge do that? Force liquidation of assets?

Yes he can and probably will.
As I understand it there is no jury in this civil trial, so the judge can basically do whatever he decides and completely ignore any evidence or defence case. That's what he will do, because let's face it, if he was on the level he would have already thrown the case out. It's worse than that tough - I expect the judge to order damages in the billions, similar to what they did to Alex Jones so that Trump and his family are completely bankrupted.
I wonder though whether the Democrats are drunk on their 'success' with all these indictments and are reaching.
Trump having his wealth taken away is not going to be a good look to the wider public. It will be like the shredding of the American dream - those on the edge of thinking this is all just a complete political witch hunt will likely fall down on his side.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: network dude

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Threadbare

Not sure if this has already been posted in this thread. But as I said on the first page, this is commie BS.

The judge ruled that Trump inflated his property values, including Mar-a-Lago, which the judge determined was worth $18-$27 million from 2011 to 2021.

To put this into perspective, neighboring homes on 0.28-0.89 acres are listed for $18-40 million.

Mar-a-Lago, the 20-acre property in the middle, is worth less despite being 20 to 70 times larger.

That Picture right there WINS this OP case closed .
files.abovetopsecret.com...
If you can't see the Truth of what's happening then you are ' Lying to yourself ' .

Swimming in the Warm Goo of Cognitive Dissonance.

originally posted by: ArcAngel
Why don't we let the evidence and the courts decide.

Unfortunately that is wishful thinking .

How can you rely on an Openly Biased Corrupt Judge ?

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

You have presented a misrepresentation of the facts. Property isn't valued by the neighborhood.

Real estate insiders bewildered by judge’s $18M valuation of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago: ‘Would list at $300M’

Real Estate Insiders

A New York judge’s Tuesday ruling valuing Donald Trump’s sprawling, headline-making Florida estate at $18 million has left industry experts perplexed.

In his verdict, Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron delivered a bombshell ruling that the former president committed fraud by inflating the value of his wealth, with details including the monetary value associated with Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach.

This decision, which came down without a jury, has sent shockwaves through political — and real estate — circles, especially that $18 million base value for the property.

One prominent Palm Beach real estate broker, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told The Post, “It’s utterly delusional to think that property is only worth $18 million.”

The insider added, “If that property were on the market today, I would list it at around $300 million, minimum … at least. He also has the separate golf course minutes away.”

Why do so many on the payroll sow false discourse here

a reply to: Waterglass

Why do so many on the payroll sow false discourse here

How am I sowing False Discourse ?

I'm agreeing they are clearly undervaluing the Property the Picture shows that ??

a reply to: network dude

Thank you for starting this valuable thread. Absurdity is too nice of a term for this trial.

One bitter old man is the judge, jury, and real estate appraiser.

And a short sighted one at that. 2025 is just around the corner.