The absurdity of the fraud case against Trump

This is what all of this is about according to the source:

James brought the $250 million lawsuit last September, alleging that Trump and his co-defendants committed fraud in inflating assets on financial statements to get better terms on commercial real estate loans and insurance policies.

link to source

If that is wrong, please explain why.

Now, when you get a loan, be it commercial or residential, the entity you are trying to borrow money from or purchase insurance from, has a duty on their end to evaluate the property and confirm what they say the value is. If they do not, then they alone will be left holding the bag if the borrower defaults, or insurance must pay out. To do this, they use appraisers. Appraisers use comparable sales to value property among other tools.

Once you know all that, and you ask, Did Trump default on his loan or recieve a total payout on a property? It seems not. So who has been wronged here? The only answer I can come up with is Trump, for being made to answer for such idiotic charges.

Jack Smith must not feel very good about his case, nor the Georgia case. Folks are getting sloppy.

I'm curious, if what he said is true, that the paperwork on the properties said that they were just estimates.

Because if that is true, how can they have a leg to stand on?

Because it ties to what you said, they had a duty to evaluate the properties themselves. Just like when I refinanced my house years back.

originally posted by: network dude
This is what all of this is about according to the source:

James brought the $250 million lawsuit last September, alleging that Trump and his co-defendants committed fraud in inflating assets on financial statements to get better terms on commercial real estate loans and insurance policies.

link to source

If that is wrong, please explain why.

Now, when you get a loan, be it commercial or residential, the entity you are trying to borrow money from or purchase insurance from, has a duty on their end to evaluate the property and confirm what they say the value is. If they do not, then they alone will be left holding the bag if the borrower defaults, or insurance must pay out. To do this, they use appraisers. Appraisers use comparable sales to value property among other tools.

Once you know all that, and you ask, Did Trump default on his loan or recieve a total payout on a property? It seems not. So who has been wronged here? The only answer I can come up with is Trump, for being made to answer for such idiotic charges.

Jack Smith must not feel very good about his case, nor the Georgia case. Folks are getting sloppy.

I don't disagree that it would be on the loan agency/bank to do their due diligence, but regardless of that it's still fraud to lie about the value of your holdings in legal documents. The application would be considered a legal document. Is it that black and white? No, not at all but that's the legal angle they are coming from.

originally posted by: CanadianLoudMouth

originally posted by: network dude
This is what all of this is about according to the source:

James brought the $250 million lawsuit last September, alleging that Trump and his co-defendants committed fraud in inflating assets on financial statements to get better terms on commercial real estate loans and insurance policies.

link to source

If that is wrong, please explain why.

Now, when you get a loan, be it commercial or residential, the entity you are trying to borrow money from or purchase insurance from, has a duty on their end to evaluate the property and confirm what they say the value is. If they do not, then they alone will be left holding the bag if the borrower defaults, or insurance must pay out. To do this, they use appraisers. Appraisers use comparable sales to value property among other tools.

Once you know all that, and you ask, Did Trump default on his loan or recieve a total payout on a property? It seems not. So who has been wronged here? The only answer I can come up with is Trump, for being made to answer for such idiotic charges.

Jack Smith must not feel very good about his case, nor the Georgia case. Folks are getting sloppy.

I don't disagree that it would be on the loan agency/bank to do their due diligence, but regardless of that it's still fraud to lie about the value of your holdings in legal documents. The application would be considered a legal document. Is it that black and white? No, not at all but that's the legal angle they are coming from.

So any borrower is now a licensed appraiser? How much are your skills worth an hour? Exactly what you are getting paid, or perhaps more according to you?

If the Bank just went off of what people say, they would not be in business. This entire case is a joke and a perfect addition to clown world.

originally posted by: CanadianLoudMouth

originally posted by: network dude
This is what all of this is about according to the source:

James brought the $250 million lawsuit last September, alleging that Trump and his co-defendants committed fraud in inflating assets on financial statements to get better terms on commercial real estate loans and insurance policies.

link to source

If that is wrong, please explain why.

Now, when you get a loan, be it commercial or residential, the entity you are trying to borrow money from or purchase insurance from, has a duty on their end to evaluate the property and confirm what they say the value is. If they do not, then they alone will be left holding the bag if the borrower defaults, or insurance must pay out. To do this, they use appraisers. Appraisers use comparable sales to value property among other tools.

Once you know all that, and you ask, Did Trump default on his loan or recieve a total payout on a property? It seems not. So who has been wronged here? The only answer I can come up with is Trump, for being made to answer for such idiotic charges.

Jack Smith must not feel very good about his case, nor the Georgia case. Folks are getting sloppy.

I don't disagree that it would be on the loan agency/bank to do their due diligence, but regardless of that it's still fraud to lie about the value of your holdings in legal documents. The application would be considered a legal document. Is it that black and white? No, not at all but that's the legal angle they are coming from.

Since when is an educated guess considered a lie? Like you said it's on the banks/financial institutions to set the value.

a reply to: network dude

You mean use common sense? There you go again ND. Since when is common sense a part of the "Get Trump" game? I FEEL like I've been wronged is good enough to stand up in court.

The truth is, he didn't lie, at least not on Maralago. Every real estate investor in the state did a double take when the judge ruled that a $300 million dollar property was only worth $18 million. The judge is an idiot.

a reply to: network dude

Nice try ND but these fools will never understand what’s going in here.

a reply to: CanadianLoudMouth

I don't disagree that it would be on the loan agency/bank to do their due diligence, but regardless of that it's still fraud to lie about the value of your holdings in legal documents. The application would be considered a legal document. Is it that black and white? No, not at all but that's the legal angle they are coming from.

Has anyone reported on what they claim as "evidence" yet?

Let's face it, property is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. It fluctuates constantly. We already know that the Palm Beach Assessor's estimated value of Mara-a-Lago at only $18 million dollars is a total laugh and slap in the face, even though they are supposed to be the professionals in this case. Without property assessment comparisons that date back to the dates in which Trump took out these loans, how can they prove anything?

The whole thing IS a farce! This is where we're going to see opinions labeled as facts by the left.

originally posted by: RazorV66
a reply to: network dude

Nice try ND but these fools will never understand what’s going in here.

They understand. They know exactly what they’re doing. And it’s disgusting.

Can/will Trump lose Mara Lago, or other properties? Can the judge do that? Force liquidation of assets?

a reply to: SourGrapes

One would think he can appeal whatever this bozo judge tries to pull.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: network dude

You mean use common sense? There you go again ND. Since when is common sense a part of the "Get Trump" game? I FEEL like I've been wronged is good enough to stand up in court.

The truth is, he didn't lie, at least not on Maralago. Every real estate investor in the state did a double take when the judge ruled that a $300 million dollar property was only worth $18 million. The judge is an idiot.

I'd think Trump is pleased about the value for Maralago, as he gets a yuge break on insurance. When it's time to sell it, the market will bear the value, not the insurance adjuster. But I totally agree, the judge is an idiot.

a reply to: network dude

You are spot on but even here on ATS this thread may get little traction.

In the real-estate market as with any physical property we as US citizens are allowed to make any and all claims as to what the property or item is worth. Its also the same throughout the world. Its an estimate. Just like what I do when I sell something on eBay. So if Trump goosed up the evaluation, that's his right.

The same goes for you and I for evaluation of lets say a Pet Rock.

Yes, if the property was overvalued the lender would have not loaned the money. Same goes for insurance. Then real-estate is extremely volatile. Just ask all those actors in California who are getting a haircut on the sale of their mansions

So who stands to benefit? The State and local government so this prosecutor should be suing both the County and City and possibly New York State for all those excessive taxes that have been reaped from the Trump properties.

In actuality the DOJ should be suing the New York State prosecutor but that fix is in with a sitting Merrick Garland, mumbles and the rest of the 4th Reich clowns

"I can teach stupid but I cant fix stupid" . Conversation between waterglass and my Master Electrician in 2020"

a reply to: network dude

The Local and County government in Florida is sure going to take a financial hair cut. If that was what the judge ruled then Trump should sue to get his property tax overpayments back. It could be in the millions and bankrupt the county.

Judge must be a corrupt Democrat who needs to go away. Just look how the US courts are stacked with evil and corrupt. Plus don't give them an out by saying they are stupid. They are corrupt.

“One prominent Palm Beach real estate broker, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told The Post, ‘It’s utterly delusional to think that property is only worth $18 million,'” the paper reported.

“If that property were on the market today, I would list it at around $300 million, minimum … at least. He also has the separate golf course minutes away,” the broker added.

It is important to note, none of these proceedings are meant to jail Trump.
The main goal is to sow doubt and try to blemish him even more, in the public eye.
They know very well these charges won't stick, just as they've known with each and every "oh, we got him this time" fiasco.
The bobble headed tools that follow them eat it up though.

a reply to: network dude

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Threadbare

Not sure if this has already been posted in this thread. But as I said on the first page, this is commie BS.

The judge ruled that Trump inflated his property values, including Mar-a-Lago, which the judge determined was worth $18-$27 million from 2011 to 2021.

To put this into perspective, neighboring homes on 0.28-0.89 acres are listed for $18-40 million.

Mar-a-Lago, the 20-acre property in the middle, is worth less despite being 20 to 70 times larger.

a reply to: CanadianLoudMouth

I don't disagree that it would be on the loan agency/bank to do their due diligence, but regardless of that it's still fraud to lie about the value of your holdings in legal documents.

So, it's a lie if an owner believes his property is valued at X and others see it valued at Y?

I personally see my property at quite a bit higher than the taxed value. It's worth whatever I believe it to be, and up to others to determine whether they would want to pay what I value it as. Same with requesting a loan; they can either accept my evaluation or come up with a counter proposal.

a reply to: Quadrivium

I think you're mistaken. These aren't classic liberals, these are hard corps communists. They want him dead Gaddafi style.


They will absolutely put him in prison.

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: CanadianLoudMouth

I don't disagree that it would be on the loan agency/bank to do their due diligence, but regardless of that it's still fraud to lie about the value of your holdings in legal documents.

So, it's a lie if an owner believes his property is valued at X and others see it valued at Y?

I personally see my property at quite a bit higher than the taxed value. It's worth whatever I believe it to be, and up to others to determine whether they would want to pay what I value it as. Same with requesting a loan; they can either accept my evaluation or come up with a counter proposal.

Have you ever taken a loan??
They don't just "accept my evaluation or come up with a counter proposal"....
What an absurd notion.
They do their due diligence because they are out to MAKE a profit. That is why you have appraisals and insurance value.
Your personal evaluation means little to nothing. They will loan you what THEY think it is worth and you have to come up with the excess.

a reply to: watchitburn
Not as long as there are still some honest judges.
If convicted, it will be appealed or the case will get thrown out because of the Judges political bias.
I think they will kill him before he is ever jailed by one of these warped individuals.