Yevgeny Prigozhin killed in plane crash near Moscow

a reply to: crayzeed

Prigozhin and his followers tried a coup against Putin.

That's the narrative being pushed by the press but it isn't entirely true , Prigozhin's march to Moscow had the stated aim of confronting Sergei Shoigu who he held responsible for attacks on his forces and withholding ammunition and supplies during their battle for Bakhmut , the feud between the two was long running and Prigozhin's criticism of Shoigu was very public as he posted his angry rants on Telegram which was another embarrassment for Putin.

Prigozhin was frustrated that Putin kept faith in Shoigu and kept him in post , he let that frustration boil over following the attack on his forces as they left Bakhmut , parading the Commander responsible on video for the world to see followed by his march to Moscow sealed his fate even though he remained loyal to Putin.

Vladimir Putin has ordered all Wagner troops to swear an oath of allegiance to the Russian state , the document has been published by the Kremlin.

The order lays out who needs to swear the oath, which principly includes mercenaries, but more broadly anyone involved in the war in Ukraine, with the actual oath translating as:

"I (surname, first name, patronymic) solemnly swear allegiance to the Russian Federation, to observe the Constitution of the Russian Federation, strictly follow the orders of commanders and superiors, and conscientiously fulfil the duties assigned to me."

"I swear to be loyal to the Russian Federation, to courageously defend its independence and constitutional order."
news.sky.com...

a reply to: gortex

I wonder what happens should they choose not to sign?

A bullet to the back of the head or a couple of decades in the Gulag would be my guess.

a reply to: andy06shake

I wonder what happens should they choose not to sign?

I think the choice is theirs as there are many thousands of them but hopefully those loyal to Prigozhin will prefer to join the Russian Volunteer Corps or Freedom of Russia Legion than the military led by Shoigu who actively tried to kill them.

a reply to: gortex

That's the real crux of the problem i suppose.

I mean who in their right mind would be willing to sign a pact/contract with the very same people that tried to kill them?

And by all accounts the same people responsible for the very public execution and demise of their beloved Prigozhin.

The only way that works is if it's to save their own skin.

And like you suggest there are rather a few of them, which may make disappearing them potentially rather difficult.

Then again Russia has been known to disappear many thousands of people in the past without much thought as to the repercussions or ramifications especially so amongst their military ranks purge-wise.

Potentially a bit of a predicament really if they choose not to sign their souls over to Putin and his ilk.

Video message reported to be from Wagner troops in Belarus.
"There's a lot of talk now about what the Wagner group will do. We can tell you one thing. We are getting started , get ready for us"

With all the news focus on the Wagner PMC group and the events of the plane disaster i am learning more and more about wagner.
I had no idea that they were such a diverse group involved in operating billion dollar gold and diamond mines, alcohol and sugar production, movie production, internet research groups, logging, construction and consulting and i am sure we learn even more as time goes on.

Russia's Wagner Group in Africa: More than mercenaries

So I wonder who is in charge of it all now, what type of person has this much power if the leadership really is dead?
Be careful what you wish for...

originally posted by: gortex
Video message reported to be from Wagner troops in Belarus.
"There's a lot of talk now about what the Wagner group will do. We can tell you one thing. We are getting started , get ready for us"

What’s your point posting this? It’s time to step away from the keyboard.

Even if Wagner wanted to, you think they have any f’n real chance to go against Russia or Putin?

Which is remarkable on its own because Wagner is one of the most proven and feared PMC’s in the world. Again, why would they?

They can’t, even if that was their real agenda. Period.

Keep dream’n

a reply to: Imhere

What’s your point posting this? It’s time to step away from the keyboard.

I find it interesting and it's relevant , how about you step away from the keyboard.

Even if Wagner wanted to, you think they have any f’n real chance to go against Russia or Putin?

Did the Afghan Mujahideen stand any chance against the mighty Russian army when they invaded Afghanistan ?
Guerrilla warfare is an effective tool against mighty armies.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Imhere

What’s your point posting this? It’s time to step away from the keyboard.

I find it interesting and it's relevant , how about you step away from the keyboard.

Even if Wagner wanted to, you think they have any f’n real chance to go against Russia or Putin?

Did the Afghan Mujahideen stand any chance against the mighty Russian army when they invaded Afghanistan ?
Guerrilla warfare is an effective tool against mighty armies.

Putin/Russia has a firm hold on Wagner.

I mean sh*t, apparently it’s in Belarus for f*cks sake. Under Russias direction.

Just saying it’s a waste if you think a “rebellion” 2 will be stronger than the “rebellion” 1.

lol

You probably think the potential fantasy on any “instability” that would come out of this will out weigh reality. If Wagner was successful, if they really wanted to have a successful “rebellion” do you think they would be a better option?

Wagner taking control in Russia, would equal Ukraine being flattened by the big boy arsenal of Russias.

There’s a more restrained approach going here. As crazy as that may sound.

Either way, it’s just fantasy hoping or thinking this will cause anything against Russia and Putin.

a reply to: Imhere

Putin/Russia has a firm hold on Wagner.

I'll bookmark that quote for future reference.

a reply to: Imhere

you literally got mad at someone for posting information and discussing it.

Wagner is in Belarus, and Russia, and Ukraine, and many countries in Africa. The remaining forces that ARE in Belarus are a fraction of the Wagner forces and they are there because Prigozhin brought them there AFTER he decided to end the assault on Moscow.

They are led by a loose affiliation of oligarchs, some of whom are assumed dead atm. Many of the remaining forces in the eastern European countries will probably join the Pro-Kyiv forces adding to the already unstable conditions with in Russia. With the leadership assumed dead i would think many feel they are also marked, so to speak. Although the thought has crossed my mind that this "pro-kyiv" force may be a Russian honeypot to lure out any rebels

But hey, thanks for your constructive and informative addition to the conversation...

Mutiny not coup against tsar wishes

a reply to: Imhere

Wagner taking control in Russia, would equal Ukraine being flattened by the big boy arsenal of Russias.

So what kind of toys from their "big boy arsenal" do you imagine Russia holding back from using?

If its the use of battlefield nukes or any other sort of nuclear weapon your on about.

Your Wagner scum would be in the same predicament as Putin and his ilk if they somehow managed to attain command.

Meaning the use of such would immediately provoke a massive conventional response from NATO forces that would decimate Russian lines and infrastructure all the way back to Moscow.

Where the only response available would be for Russia to use larger nuclear weapons in the hope of stopping NATO forces from occupying their land and nation.

Wagner nonces would be in the same kit and caboodle as Putin, with the same outcome on the horizon, that being the use of nuclear weapons could only ever spell disaster and make the entire situation far worse than it already appears to be.

Russia's investigative committee have confirmed the bodies recovered from the crash site are those listed on the flight sheet following DNA tests.

"As part of the criminal investigation of the plane crash in the Tver region, molecular genetic examinations have been completed," a statement read.

"According to their results, the identities of all 10 dead were established, they correspond to the list stated in the flight sheet."
news.sky.com...

They’re now reporting that a Ukrainian fighter pilot was on board the crashed plane as well. That makes absolutely no sense to me. What the heck was a person like that doing on the plane? Talk about being in the lions den. You’d think he would be Persona Non Grata being anywhere near Russia, never mind being on a plane taking off from Moscow.

a reply to: Techno92LFC

That sounds interesting.

Post a link Techno92LFC.

a reply to: Techno92LFC

They’re now reporting that a Ukrainian fighter pilot was on board the crashed plane as well. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

The Ukrainian pilot was killed in a training exercise in Northern Ukraine on Friday , he wasn't on Prigozhin's plane.

The three Ukrainian pilots killed in a mid-air collision on Friday have been named by the Vasylkiv Tactical Aviation Brigade.

Yesterday, President Zelenskyy confirmed the name of one of the deceased as Captain Andrew Pilshikov, also known by the callsign "Juice".

We can now confirm his two colleagues also killed in the collision are Major Vyacheslav Minka and Major Sergey Prokazin.
news.sky.com...

a reply to: Techno92LFC

The only way a Ukrainian fighter pilot crashed this plane was if he made it break apart in flight.

a reply to: Imhere

Wagner taking control in Russia, would equal Ukraine being flattened by the big boy arsenal of Russias.

would that be the arsenal that they could only build a few of, be it aircraft or armour? and when they do field it it's in the rear far from the reach of Ukraine's weapons, everything else is old wore out junk. cause russia is broke and and the roobull is only good for ass wipen now.

why do you think they have to get drones from iran, artillery shells from lil kim and trade oil with for other for goods and weapons.