David Grusch: A Modern Hero Defying the System, Unmasking the Truth

A point of contention against my previous argument.

I have always found Jacques Vallee to have very interesting views of UFOs and Close Encounters/Abductions.

He has presented an idea, wouldn't really call it a hypothesis as it cannot be tested, that UFOs and Close Encounters are very similar to folklore. He calls this a system of control. And as he continues to explain his view on this possibility, he elaborates that it is not so much a system of control, but a system of a system of control.

This fascinates me, as I ponder the implications of what he alludes. That the UFOs and Abductions scenarios are as real as the reality we live in. And if the reality we live in is not as real as we tend to believe it is, then this is all slight of hand and trickery.

But to what end?

To the end of continuing our belief system that we live in a universe of vastness and bounding possibilities. When in fact we do not. And these UFO sightings and Close Encounters are just a system to tantalize our minds away from ever seeing the truth, that we are not what we think we are, we are not who we think we are, and we are not where we think we are.

And if that were the case, then the information presented by Grusch is going to be false. And inadvertantly assisting the system of systems keeping our minds off discovering the dull painful truth that we are in a petri dish, or computer program, or something else proving our existence accidental and/or worthless, as we are not real.

If you found out we were just a computer simulation, or something similar to that, how would you feel about that; and the importance of everything in recorded history? That would be different depending on your point of view for sure.

And if that were ever proven to be the case, then I still do not agree that David Grusch is victim of, or a culprit of a psyop.
I would think in that scenario that he is just be an over-eager UFO freak that created his 15 minutes of fame to milk for the rest of his life; based off jumping to conclusions from classified materials that no sane human being would ever make, unless they were insane UFO freaks.

So I have wandering idea's about what could be. And I do not think FOR SURE David Grusch is correct and accurate. I also do not think the US Gov't, or groups inside of it, are capable of a ruse of this magnitude. Nor do I think the man is lying.
But he could be nuts. If that is the case, the more he is exposed in media the more that will come out.
And I do not know what to think when I think about Jacques Vallee. Other than the man is brilliant.

But I do know that if David Grusch is telling the truth, then people are inadvertently thwarting the disclosure movement by calling him a liar, part of a psyop, or giving credence to obviously fake FACE READERS.
This is my opinion. But I think the man has served his country in many facets honorably, and not at low levels.
And if someone is going to call him a liar, I want to see that vetted out with proof. Because as I understand it currently, he has provided all of the truth and evidence that he could muster - in a classified setting to Congress.

originally posted by: FingerMan

originally posted by: SmallusDickus

originally posted by: FingerMan
In clash that I believe will ultimately favor David Grusch.
Peace!

People make it out as if Grusch is going against the Pentagon, world governments, and the most powerful people. He's not, that is a misnomer.

If what he says stems from any sort of truth... then his notions are backwards and he will not be opposing people in high places.

His opponent is e.t.


The things he speaks of wouldn't have fallen prey to us. They're not held captive by any human or it's infrastructures. That's fundamentally impossible.

His portrayal suggests we are superior, smarter, advanced enough to back-engineer their tech. How daft are we to believe such tripe? There's still languages and cultures from earth's past we still cannot figure out... Yet we can't understand and decipher beings a 500-1000 years ahead of us (based on the kardeshev scale)?

If these advanced beings made it here... they're already in absolute control. And regularly time travel to modify pasts and the future. (Perhaps the Mandela Effect is being utilized regularly?)

Why build a superiority complex?

Because... eventually it will become plain as day and if people no longer believe in something, reality becomes altered. The entirety of mankind's thought is God. It is earth. If extraterrestrials showed themselves publicly for everyone to truly believe... they will stand no chance. We will have obtained "the knowledge of good and evil".

The power to destroy is also the power to create. Mankind has nuclear weapons...
Mankind kills and creates via thought... All day, everyday...
We make ourselves in our own image = your children, they're your image
We are organic, we are the earth...
The earth constantly kills and remakes herself... As does man and his things, family, self.

They're here to dumb us down. Keep us from leaving our planet. They do not allow us to see all the space-faring beings in constant battle. We can create religions... Adapt.... Evolve thought into anything.

I will explain how we fundamentally disagree, and where I think there is a logic failure in one of your arguments.
Many tend to think that an NHI is vastly superior to us.
In what ways specifically are they better? Besides that they have better technology.

Are we better at communication in water than a whale?
Do we understand scent better than a dog?
Can we understand our environment without eye sight like a golpher?

I could give example after example.

Very specifically, we have something called Emotional Intelligence. Some people are much stronger in this department than others. But this is a trait of the human race, this is very specific to who and what we are, and threads of this run through all of our culture to include: art, music, literature, politics, relationships, and on and on.
To control the human race, you would need better than ChatGPT to understand patterns in writing. There are fundamentals of us that are undefinable. Just as we cannot define aspects of how a dolphin interacts with other dolphins, or its' environment.

So, it is illogical to believe that NHI's are better than us at what it is that we do, and at being who we are.
They are just have a head start on us technologically.

If you are in a 26 mile foot race with someone, you are at mile 2 - and they are at mile 25, only because they had a head start. Are they a better runner than you are?
They might be a tortoise, and they had a two month head start on the race.
You would look at where they are and say wow, they are impossibly ahead of us.
But the tortoise knows something that you do not, that you will eventually beat them to the finish because your ability to run a race is vastly superior, in that particular department. But you have never seen a tortoise, and have no idea their capability in that arena.

Do not assume they are better than us at anything. But it is ok to assume they have better toys. Just do not assume that this will always be the case. It is fine and dandy to consider we may be superior in almost every way that we attempt to be better. Again, they just have a head start.
As we may be the only species in the known universe to have the traits that we have, which makes us so damned intriguing to study.

They're on a quantum level (something still very alien to us), they cannot waste energy to successfully make it out of their star system, this means they can engineer their own habitat. A habitat that creates life. And they've been here undetected directly, to most people? They're what we could only establish as GOD. Light. Energy. They are the thing we pray to, they allow us to kill and create life, they've given us thought, with thought we exist and in these thoughts we also constantly die.

If the human race sees these beings as THE deity... they will no longer submit to man. So the powers that be, an extension of these beings, placed these "whistleblowers" here, creating a narrative that man controls everything he touches. Yet we can hardly control our own thoughts... O_o

Humanity has been killing itself uncontrollably for as long as man existed. How do we actually control anything without this deity? Without energy? Without light?

Attempting to compare to such higher echelons of existence really puts into perspective our inferiority to the universe and our construct within it. Carl Sagan attempted to teach us our place with "the pale blue dot". It's lesson is a primer for the inevitable, as we witness today, bottle fed clues for disclosure.

The bible says, "God is light..." Is it just a coincidence that we need this "light" to visualize the physical world? Or is this a bread crumb for us to learn something far deeper than we could ever imagine?

If they made us, in all our malfunctioning glory... I couldn't possibly believe they're better than us at anything. As a matter of fact, they're probably hardcore junkies bumming plasma from our sun just for a quick fix while road tripping to Andromeda. Can't even find the time to say "hi" to us properly before zooming off in their feces looking cigar space ship...

a reply to: SmallusDickus

Well, first off, please show me where the Bible says that God is Light?
God created the light. That is a very interesting topic unto itself, as in, how did beings interact with the universe prior to that.
But God is much more than light.

You have a lot of assumptions in your reply. Why is quantum such a big leap?
We have had a lot of revolutions technologically. Most recent is AI. I think that will be a tool on the level of the internet. But it won't change who and what we are. It will just enhance who we are with a megaphone.

The biggest assumption I took issue with from your previous posts was that these NHI's are better than us in every way.
We aren't better than ant's at cleaning a sidewalk of popcorn debris. We aren't better than bee's at getting nectar out of a flower without harming it. And my previous examples of, we aren't better at communication in the water than a whale. Nor are we better at detecting life in the depths of the ocean as a Sperm Whale that uses a form of Sonar, vastly more complex than our submarines. Dare I say, we will never have better Sonar abilities with technology than a Sperm Whale.

So why would I ever think a NHI would be able to understand us in any way. Not our language, not our culture, and not our wisdom and empathy.
They could decipher our language. But that does not mean they would understand our language.

Do we understand the language of birds, or elephants? I'm sure at some point in the near future, we will develop an AI that will decipher the communication of elephants. And again, dare I say we will NEVER understand it.

And I make all of those examples just to say, the NHIs will never be better at doing what it is we do.

One more example. Were you alive when Michael Jackson became a star?
By your logic, a NHI should have the ability to enthrall the human masses with its' charisma, musical talent, and dancing skill. An alien should be able to drop out of its' hyper cube space ship, right in front of Simon Cowell on American Idol, and be deemed the greatest rock star the world has ever seen.
And since we both know that is absolutely impossible, then you must concede the fact that a NHI's are not better than humans.

Oh, you just mean they have better technology?
Yes, they are obviously better at technology. But that is a horrible way to describe the situation.
They had a large head start. And they likely created technologies different than we have, and in different ways.

The better way to ascribe who is better at technology would be to have them and us start at year zero.
Take a measurement at different intervals.
At the ten year mark, have they created the wheel? Have we?
At the one thousand year mark, where are we both at?

It is entirely possible that they could have millions of years of a head start, and don't even resemble what they were in nature.
That is assuming they come from nature and weren't direct creations of God.

So on and so forth.

Debunking begins ...

UFO Whistleblower: Government set to detail his history with PTSD


NewsNation’s exclusive interview with UFO whistleblower David Grusch sparked international attention with his claim the U.S. government has secretly been in possession of nonhuman spacecraft. Investigative journalist Ross Coulthart says Grusch believes the government may now be behind an effort to release his medical records in an effort to smear his credibility.

a reply to: gippo888

Oh Yeah?

Then why is Coulthart spreading this in the national media?

What does he expect this sheriff to admit he leaked it?

There are always leaks in this political mud pit of the USA.

originally posted by: introufo

Oh Yeah?
Then why is Coulthart spreading this in the national media?

I think a preventive action to clarify

the article
theintercept.com...

originally posted by: gippo888

originally posted by: introufo

Oh Yeah?
Then why is Coulthart spreading this in the national media?

I think a preventive action to clarify

the article
theintercept.com...

Coulthart is not acting like a journalist. He is the one spreading falsehoods... The Intercept journalist exposed him.

a reply to: gippo888

Grusch is just the latest, greatest hope for believers in the alien presence on Earth. So there is now extreme outrage at how this guys struggle with PTSD is being made public.

However, say Sean Kirkpatrick had been the guy suffering with his mental health in the past and this had been exposed by the media, then those very same people would be calling for his head and spitting vitriol.

This is how easily we as human beings are manipulated. And the people doing know exactly how to push our buttons.

The fact remains that we are still awaiting hard proof of Grusch's claims. If it's delivered then whether he struggles with PTSD or not will be irrelevant.

a reply to: mirageman

The fact remains that we are still awaiting hard proof of Grusch's claims. If it's delivered then whether he struggles with PTSD or not will be irrelevant.

That's the short and sweet of it. Until then I expect more noise and drama .

originally posted by: mirageman

Grusch is just the latest, greatest hope for believers in the alien presence on Earth. So there is now extreme outrage at how this guys struggle with PTSD is being made public.

However, say Sean Kirkpatrick had been the guy suffering with his mental health in the past and this had been exposed by the media, then those very same people would be calling for his head and spitting vitriol.

This is how easily we as human beings are manipulated. And the people doing know exactly how to push our buttons.

The fact remains that we are still awaiting hard proof of Grusch's claims. If it's delivered then whether he struggles with PTSD or not will be irrelevant.

Certainly ...
It should be everyone's thinking but many skeptics would make all evidence disappear to maintain their belief.
They are very dangerous people, in the past they burned Giordano and made Galileo retract.
We should all be happy to be able to make some progress on the UFO subject that has been stagnant for 80 years.
But this is not the case, the madness of the Inquisition is always alive in people ...
Maybe you're not the right person to recognize them but I can already see them at work. You wonder why the question always remains in the USA
Try reading the European press about the congress hearing
Here in Italy I have not found a newspaper that has listed the contents of the hearing, only the ufologists have talked about it and not even in a complete way.
Italian ufology, especially the CUN, never talks about the negative sides of ufology ... that emerge from Grusch's statements

a reply to: gippo888

Try reading the European press about the congress hearing Here in Italy I have not found a newspaper that has listed the contents of the hearing....

Perhaps because Italy is not part of the Anglo world?. The UK trash tabloids often cover UFO stories online. They are not good and are often badly written clickbait. But they do print them.

But the BBC recently covered the Grusch story : www.bbc.com...

The UK Guardian also : www.theguardian.com...

Both give a more sober account than you'd get from certain sectors in America.

Not that I really expect much to come of this all. I think the same people who have built this up are now also preparing the excuses why it will fall apart. It always does because of a total lack of objective evidence.

originally posted by: mirageman

Perhaps because Italy is not part of the Anglo world?. The UK trash tabloids often cover UFO stories online. They are not good and are often badly written clickbait. But they do print them.
But the BBC recently covered the Grusch story : www.bbc.com...
The UK Guardian also : www.theguardian.com...

Both give a more sober account than you'd get from certain sectors in America.

Not that I really expect much to come of this all. I think the same people who have built this up are now also preparing the excuses why it will fall apart. It always does because of a total lack of objective evidence.

Certainly the events of the past influence the mass media, nobody wants to fall back into a situation like Santilli.
However the current situation at the congress seems very serious to me, I don't know how it will end, but I don't think it will be resolved very soon. The "black funds" issue is not just about ufology ....

Let's assume it's all intelligence work, as Ramirez says…
Fravor, Graves and Elizondo are aligned with Kirkpatrick, it seems like a logical path that demonstrates the shortcomings of the military.
But Grusch, Ramirez and Chaim Eshed have broken the mold and are launching heavy accusations against intelligence.
As Coulthart says, Grusch is not alone (others have testified to Congress), he is not easy to demolish…
Something went wrong in the intelligence drawing ... now it looks like an erupting volcano

a reply to: gippo888

...However the current situation at the congress seems very serious to me, I don't know how it will end, but I don't think it will be resolved very soon. The "black funds" issue is not just about ufology ....

It's possible that ufology has been used (some might say abused) as a method to uncover corruption inside the world of military contractors, black projects and misappropriation of government funds.The Pentagon has failed to pass an audit of its finances for years. With $billions unaccounted for. The internal war may not be about "UFO' disclosure. But about those who see corruption and those who see their gravy train about to get derailed.

a reply to: gippo888

now it looks like an erupting volcano

Another UFO mess of a drama to me.

a reply to: mirageman

The internal war may not be about "UFO' disclosure. But about those who see corruption and those who see their gravy train about to get derailed.

That gravy train needs derailing.

originally posted by: mirageman

It's possible that ufology has been used (some might say abused) as a method to uncover corruption inside the world of military contractors, black projects and misappropriation of government funds.The Pentagon has failed to pass an audit of its finances for years. With $billions unaccounted for. The internal war may not be about "UFO' disclosure. But about those who see corruption and those who see their gravy train about to get derailed.

Yes, maybe money will bring the truth about UFOs
To discover the secrets you have to follow the money ...

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
Another UFO mess of a drama to me.

Before Grusch's testimony I was convinced that Kirkpatrick would debunk the various testimonies
Now I really don't know what's going on, Grusch and the other witnesses are a surprise for me... honestly I always considered these topics (government/alien contact, recovered ufos) cold war inventions.
I'm a believer but I'm surprised like a skeptic

sorry, I was wrong

Has anyone found the foundation website for SOL where Grusch is purported to be employed at?

Here’s so far the only known info…..

The Sol Foundation: David Grusch Now Works with CIA Contractor Garry Nolan and Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Christopher Mellon

👽

a reply to: Ophiuchus1


There is a site you put your password in, but guess it is only for those that are part of it. As far as Grusch working for Nolan that comes as zero surprise at all, I would very much expect that, as well as Mellon.

What I do find interesting, is Nolan's alleged experiences and here he is today, one of the leaders of the pack in all this UFO stuff. He is also 100 percent sure Aliens are here, not 90 percent but 100 percent. All fascinating. Did the so called Aliens pick Nolan for the mission he is on , assuming Aliens are real of course .

originally posted by: Baablacksheep

What I do find interesting, is Nolan's alleged experiences and here he is today, one of the leaders of the pack in all this UFO stuff. He is also 100 percent sure Aliens are here, not 90 percent but 100 percent. All fascinating.

I'm guessing Team management did the picking. They probably peed themselves with delight when they found Nolan. Credentialed and primed for the high strangeness joy ride.

Better than a Bennewitz in every way. Now that I think about it, the aliens might have had a three-fingered hand in his life too.