Breaking, Supreme Court shuts down Race Based Admission

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Edumakated

Not to be insulting, but Asians raised by a tiger mom with perfect test scores are a dime a dozen. It comes down to what else is there?

That is insulting and racist. I won’t stoop to that level and return the insult but I will say this.
My tiger mom said let them talk about you because you’ll be their boss someday.

And she was right……

Nah, she forgot to tell you that A students work for C students....

Seriously, I didn't mean to insult you. I apologize. I was making a point about statistics regarding number of applicants and other admissions factors which is why I stated an asian interested in a creative field may have a better shot than a stereotypical asian who wants to be a doctor or engineer.

FACTS (aka "What Matters")

Only 4 out of 10 Black kids finish college.

Only 5 out of 10 Hispanic kids finish college.

Their drop-out rate is so high because colleges are (now "were") "incentivized" in multiple ways to enroll those who graduated from horrible inner city high-schools, even though they couldn't pass the college entrance exam(s).

www.thinkimpact.com...

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Edumakated

Not to be insulting, but Asians raised by a tiger mom with perfect test scores are a dime a dozen. It comes down to what else is there?

That is insulting and racist. I won’t stoop to that level and return the insult but I will say this.
My tiger mom said let them talk about you because you’ll be their boss someday.

And she was right……

Nah, she forgot to tell you that A students work for C students....

Seriously, I didn't mean to insult you. I apologize. I was making a point about statistics regarding number of applicants and other admissions factors which is why I stated an asian interested in a creative field may have a better shot than a stereotypical asian who wants to be a doctor or engineer.

You’re mistaken, see my edited post.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Edumakated

Not to be insulting, but Asians raised by a tiger mom with perfect test scores are a dime a dozen. It comes down to what else is there?

That is insulting and racist. I won’t stoop to that level and return the insult but I will say this.
My tiger mom said let them talk about you because you’ll be their boss someday.

And she was right……

Nah, she forgot to tell you that A students work for C students....

Seriously, I didn't mean to insult you. I apologize. I was making a point about statistics regarding number of applicants and other admissions factors which is why I stated an asian interested in a creative field may have a better shot than a stereotypical asian who wants to be a doctor or engineer.

We also need to stop categorizing people.
We are Americans. Some of us are good at art, some at sports, some at math.
We need to look beyond skin period.

& if you are saying it’s so much more than skin color, then what’s the problem, this struck down shouldn’t make a bit of difference…..

These Brainwashing-Institutions™, called Colleges™ : are mostly private, no ?

Folks of all Colors™ and Races™, have an equal right to the Brainwashing™ !

Yay !

Equality™ !

originally posted by: carewemust
FACTS (aka "What Matters")

Only 4 out of 10 Black kids finish college.

Only 5 out of 10 Hispanic kids finish college.

Their drop-out rate is so high because colleges are (now "were") "incentivized" in multiple ways to enroll those who graduated from horrible inner city high-schools, even though they couldn't pass the college entrance exam(s).

www.thinkimpact.com...

Vs just 6 out 10 white students who finish college.... not a significant difference.

You have to look at the types of institutions being attending. First off, affirmative action is only an issue at the top schools. However, when you look at schools with an admittance rate of 25% or less it is 97%.

The general retention rate was 81%. Colleges and universities with open admissions had a retention rate of 62%. The institutions with an acceptance rate of less than 25% recorded a 97% retention rate.
The institutions with the lowest acceptance rates (less than 25%) recorded the highest retention rates.

So basically, most drop outs are at schools with open admissions policies. I suspect blacks are over represented at those schools. However, we are talking affirmative action at selective schools who admit rates are probably less than 10%...

Let me guess the ruling doesn't touch on legacy admissions at all, even though they disproportionately benefit white students.

Half of me is happy, half is sad. I was planning on using this for my children's advantage later. I tell my (Filipino) wife to always mark on forms that our children are Asian/Filipino ...never mark they're a full or half-honky hybrid. But ultimately, I'm enthused as one should be embraced on merit.

originally posted by: Kaiju666
Half of me is happy, half is sad. I was planning on using this for my children's advantage later. I tell my (Filipino) wife to always mark on forms that our children are Asian/Filipino ...never mark they're a full or half-honky hybrid. But ultimately, I'm enthused as one should be embraced on merit.

Your kids will be better off in a world where they aren’t disadvantaged or advantaged just by the color of their skin.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Regardless of anyone's opinions, this will provide fodder for the left to pack the court.

a reply to: Edumakated

hechingerreport.org...

Why white students are 250% more likely to graduate than Black students at public universities

This article skirts around the issue, but basically Black and brown student often don’t have the same support at home as their White/Asian counterparts do. I’m not just talking about money either.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: Kaiju666
Half of me is happy, half is sad. I was planning on using this for my children's advantage later. I tell my (Filipino) wife to always mark on forms that our children are Asian/Filipino ...never mark they're a full or half-honky hybrid. But ultimately, I'm enthused as one should be embraced on merit.

Your kids will be better off in a world where they aren’t disadvantaged or advantaged just by the color of their skin.

I wholeheartedly agree. I was just planning, in my own twisted mind, using their own weapon against them . I'm not allowing my children to be raised wearing brown shirts.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Edumakated

hechingerreport.org...

Why white students are 250% more likely to graduate than Black students at public universities

This article skirts around the issue, but basically Black and brown student often don’t have the same support at home as their White/Asian counterparts do. I’m not just talking about money either.

It is complex. Usually financial. Then you factor in working while trying to study. Then lack of support systems whether it is family that went to college or just having friends to study with regularly. Lack of maturity. All kinds of factors.

A big issue is that not everyone is ready or mature enough for college. We need to get away from pushing college on everyone. A lot of these kids, particulary those from low income homes, could benefit greatly from working, training programs, or military first.... when I was in college, the military students were often some of the most disciplined. They were more mature.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Edumakated

I know we’ve discussed this topic before and if what you are saying is true there would be NO need for affirmative action.

No, I think you misunderstand what affirmative action is and was trying to do at these schools.

What I think people fail to understand is that these schools are glorified social clubs. Gaining admission is often the hardest part. The schools are attempting to build a class of students that they believe creates the best learning environment for all students.

As a result, admissions cannot and has never been binary where you just simply look at test scores and GPA. Again, statistically, they cannot do that because even if they only looked at test scores and GPA, they don't have enough spots for all qualified applicants. So they have to devise ways to look at OTHER THINGS to figure out who they want to admit.

So they look at the stuff like extracurriculars, geography, legacy, race, and other non-academic factors. For example, a kid from Iowa probably has a better shot at admissions to Harvard than a kid from Connecticut. A kid raised in housing projects may have a better shot than a kid whose parents are both doctors. It just depends and test scores are going to vary based on what kind of class diversity the school is looking for.

I recall when I got my MBA, if you were coming from a "feeder industry" like investment banking or management consulting, you often needed better test scores and some other factors because quite frankly, we were a dime a dozen in terms of applicants. However, a teacher, fireman, professional athlete, or someone with a non-traditional business background may find themselves gaining admission easier because the schools are looking for a different perspective.

Not to be insulting, but Asians raised by a tiger mom with perfect test scores are a dime a dozen. It comes down to what else is there? What extracurriculars? Leadership? An Asian that says they may want to go into a creative field may have a better shot than say an Asian who says they want to go to medical school.

Personally, I don't think things will change dramatically at these schools. It is what it is...

Thank you, for such a detailed response. I learned so much and it caused me look at the admissions process through a different lens.

Makes sense.

a reply to: JAGStorm

we are in a weird spot. It's "raycist" to say that Asian kids are smart. That's a stereotype. I'm sure there are some lazy, unintelligent Asian kids, but Stereotypes exist for a reason. Much like saying Black kids are generally better at sports. That's raycist, but largely true. And the Stereotype exists for a reason on that as well.

But we are so programmed to omit some basic facts for fear of being called....you guessed it. Raycist.

This ruling was a step in the right direction, and the ideas behind it should transcend this one topic. it's a pivotal teaching moment for all of us, if we bother to understand why.

a reply to: Edumakated

It is complex. Usually financial. Then you factor in working while trying to study. Then lack of support systems whether it is family that went to college or just having friends to study with regularly. Lack of maturity. All kinds of factors.

I live in a mostly Caucasian area. My daughter goes to school with mostly Caucasians.
100% of her many friend all work 1 full or 2 part time jobs while attending college. Most of them work 2 jobs in the summer, It’s hard, get over it. My daughter works 2 jobs and works 12 hour days most days.

I will also say, 100% of her friends have both parents in the picture, even if divorced and they are there to encourage higher learning.

I don’t think it’s racist to say the black and brown family structure needs help. I understand historically at one time the black family was one of the strongest, and that interferences might have changed that. I don’t believe that is the case these days. At some point people must look inward and figure it out.

When I say black I mean American Black, not Nigerian or Somali or other groups that do have structures very similar to Asian and white families. You’ll also see that those families also excel in school.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Edumakated

hechingerreport.org...

Why white students are 250% more likely to graduate than Black students at public universities

This article skirts around the issue, but basically Black and brown student often don’t have the same support at home as their White/Asian counterparts do. I’m not just talking about money either.

Exactly. The simple truth is that a huge swath of the black community does not value education. And this translates in every way you would expect it to.

Incidentally, I once knew a guy who was white, but one of his grandmothers was Puerto Rican. He admitted that he had identified as Hispanic to get that job.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: JAGStorm

we are in a weird spot. It's "raycist" to say that Asian kids are smart. That's a stereotype. I'm sure there are some lazy, unintelligent Asian kids, but Stereotypes exist for a reason. Much like saying Black kids are generally better at sports. That's raycist, but largely true. And the Stereotype exists for a reason on that as well.

But we are so programmed to omit some Herebasic facts for fear of being called....you guessed it. Raycist.

This ruling was a step in the right direction, and the ideas behind it should transcend this one topic. it's a pivotal teaching moment for all of us, if we bother to understand why.

Is it?

To top the fear, a National Study of College Experience led by Espenshade and Radford (2009) showed that a student who self-identifies as Asian will need 140 SAT points higher than whites, 320 SAT points higher than Hispanics, and 450 SAT points higher than African Americans.

maybe soon people and businesses won't have to deal with as many unqualified professionals with pseudo college degrees

lots of racists making themself known today