FSB Starts criminal proceedings against Prigozhin for "the Organization of Armed Insurrection"

a reply to: GAOTU789

You pretty much summed up my views. "Just make it make sense!"

A repeat of 1991 I guess would be as good as we could hope for. But then the West needs to do a better job this time of making sure Russia becomes an ally instead of reverting back to this again. I don't know how all that works out.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: KindraLabelle2

Prigozhin's beef seems to be with Russia's key Generals who he wants gone, maybe not so much with the Krumblin but who knows?

That's what's being reported. But now that Putin has basically called him a traitor, I don't think there's any going back now. Maybe he initially just wanted to force Putin's hand to replace the Russian military command, but it seems to have spiraled beyond that now.

But your last words are where we're really at. "Who knows?" These things are invariably unpredictable.

a reply to: face23785

Then China becomes the new Russia, in believing they’re being ganged up on by NATO.

a reply to: KindraLabelle2

so stop cheering Wagner on.

As opposed to keeping a war criminal in The Kremlin.

To be fair, i hope both of them blow each other up.

a reply to: face23785

Yes, no one knows what personal ambitions he really has.

The key thing is (IMHO) whether the regular forces will oppose him. They seem to be moving up that motorway.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: KindraLabelle2

Prigozhin's beef seems to be with Russia's key Generals who he wants gone, maybe not so much with the Krumblin but who knows?

That's what's being reported. But now that Putin has basically called him a traitor, I don't think there's any going back now. Maybe he initially just wanted to force Putin's hand to replace the Russian military command, but it seems to have spiraled beyond that now.

But your last words are where we're really at. "Who knows?" These things are invariably unpredictable.

It sounds as if this is a huge power play, but we can only speculate, but damn it's historic just to watch it unfold.

Putin is running out of friends, it would seem

Moscow police force is ready...

Fresh footage out of Rostov-on-Don , Wagner Group patrol streets.

Wagner mercenaries were posted in a street in Rostov-on-Don on Saturday (June 24) as the rebellious Russian mercenary boss Yevgeny Prigozhin demanded that Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu and Russia's top general Valery Gerasimov come to meet him the southern City.

Prigozhin said in one video posted on social media by his own press service that he was now at the headquarters of the Southern Military District, which is in Rostov-on-Don.

Not sure that's a smart move.

I’m pretty sure Prigozhin understands misinformation and how his location being given away would be an instant death sentence.

Something I haven't seen brought up yet is the fact that Wagner has a fairly large contingent of non Russian fighters. So it would be an unknown at this point of how many of the fighters he is controlling are Russian and how many non Russian. cause the non Russians may be much more willing to open fire on the Russia's regular army then Russian citizens would be.

Just another piece to add to a very complex and very much unclear situation.

a reply to: putnam6

Remember the old days, when we all thought that the Russian Army was to be feared, or at least respected?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Yes. What has happened to their Spetznaz?

Hearing unconfirmed reports that Ukrainian troops have captured territory south of Donetsk that has been occupied since 2014.

Regular Russian troops could be melting away in some areas

t.me...

The main thing from the statements of the Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev:

📍The rebellion is a thoughtful and planned operation, the purpose of which is to seize power in the country;

📍If the nuclear arsenal of the Russian Federation is "under the control of bandits", the whole world will be on the verge of destruction;

📍Medvedev did not rule out that foreign specialists and persons who served in the elite units of the RF Armed Forces took part in the preparation of the rebellion;

📍Russia will not allow the rebellion to reach the state transfer and the global crisis;

📍The leadership of the Russian Federation will not allow crazy criminals and their fans to seize power in the country;

📍Speculations about the Ministry of Defense not fulfilling its obligations and "strikes" on the rear units of the PMC "Wagner" do not stand up to criticism.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Yes. What has happened to their Spetznaz?

Likely their very best veterans were dispatched trying to take the airfield of Kiev back at the start of the invasion.

The mystery plane reported leaving Moscow earlier today was heading in the direction of St Petersburg , interestingly.

A plane, confirmed to be one of those used by the Russian government, has taken off and then switched off its transponder around 20 minutes later at 11.39am, meaning it can no longer be tracked.

There's no way to know who is on it and why it was in the air, only that it was heading north west, in the direction of St Petersburg.

I wonder who was aboard ?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Wagner has a lot of ties to the Russia's special forces. Their main training base in Molkino is attached to a SF base there. Many of the mercenaries are former the Russia SF. Much of their training had been reportedly carried out by the Russia's SF at that base.

That and the Russia has been using them in atypical role for them. Frontal assault troops in many of the engagements so they have been degraded quite a bit due to the war.

It's actually one of the things I am waiting to see reliable reports on is what does the Russia's SF community do?

originally posted by: putnam6


It sounds as if this is a huge power play, but we can only speculate, but damn it's historic just to watch it unfold.

I've got a lot of work to do today that's probably gonna be neglected because I'm trying to follow this.

a reply to: putnam6

If they think for 2 seconds a civil war is in the works they will see what their junior officer wants to do, as in let's get out of hear and go home like now. If there is disagreement within the officer ranks there could be a quick purge and retreat.
Russia could actually lose what they took in 2014 if they have to fight it out at home in a type of civil war.

a reply to: GAOTU789

One report was that when they took Rostov, they opened up the prison there and tried to convince all those men to fight for them in exchange for their freedom.

Unconfirmed report but it certainly fits their MO.

a reply to: face23785

I've got a lot of work to do today that's probably gonna be neglected because I'm trying to follow this.

Me too but history waits for no man , gardening however does.

originally posted by: face23785

But then the West needs to do a better job this time of making sure Russia becomes an ally instead of reverting back to this again. I don't know how all that works out.

This 1000%. I would, at the end of the day, rather have the Russia as an ally instead of an enemy., But in saying that, they would still need to go through the regular procedures to make that happen. When they tried to join NATO way back when, they made such ridiculous demands that their candidacy was essentially a joke and doomed before it was even seriously considered.

Not saying that in the hypothetical future where relationships with the Russia normalize that they would join NATO, just that they can't demand special treatment because of them being the Russia.