Multiple Victims Reported in Texas Mall Mass Shooting

originally posted by: maria_stardust
a reply to: SourGrapes

What laws need to be changed? What laws allowed this to happen?

A better question would be:
What is the root of the problem?

I’ve already addressed this.

You addressed it with laws that are already laws.

I think the "root of the problem" is that laws aren't followed.

Maybe, the "better question" is why aren't those laws followed?

originally posted by: maria_stardust
a reply to: SourGrapes

What laws need to be changed? What laws allowed this to happen?

A better question would be:
What is the root of the problem?

I’ve already addressed this.

No, no you haven't.

To go seek the death of innocents is psychopathy, regardless of which 2 genders the person is.

The other is an inanimate object, a tool, that can commit no crime on it's own.

You've addressed nothing.

originally posted by: maria_stardust
a reply to: ketsuko

Which abuse is greater:
Gun violence or the temporary nuisance of red flag/common sense gun laws?

In case you’re wondering, it’s the gun violence.

In your opinion ...

You forgot to add those three words. Red flag laws create a system where someone is guilty until proven innocent which, by their very nature, tend to turn our entire justice system on its head.

Won't it be a wonderful world we live in where we can create criminals simply by pointing and accusing? I'm looking forward to it; aren't you? But then, I'm sure you have nothing to worry about because you have nothing to hide. No Kafka Trials in your future, I'm sure.

If you really wanted to address the issue, you'd look into why so many men are angry, but then that would mean admitting that you and I and everyone else is participating in creating a broken society which means shouldering some of the blame. You probably don't want to take any of that on yourself; easier by far to keep blaming something else.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Mahogany

originally posted by: infolurker
They won't say what has happened yet. Appears a mass shooter started popping off at an outlet mall in Texas. They have already started with the gun rhetoric. This one shall be interesting.

Oh no, have they? Gun rhetoric? Oh no!

God forbid some snowflake gets their feelings hurt over wanting background checks so Americans aren't mowed down by military rifles daily.

Look, I'm a gun owner. I carry concealed. But we can do better than this BS. Much, much better.

We can have rights and better regulation. There can be both.

I'm sick of the mentally ill killing innocent people. They need to be stopped. (see what I did there, I identified the problem, and offered a solution, and not ONCE did I mention the tool the crazy person used, almost as if the tool isn't the real problem, but the fact that a crazy person felt the need to kill others)

Great! Good job!

But....


How do you suggest we implement your most excellent solution; ie. Identifying mentally ill people before they kill?


Are you proposing that everyone be subjected to evaluation by mental health professionals so that the ill can be singled out and restricted from causing potential violence "sometime" in the future?

Should such examinations be a "one and done" affair, or should they be periodic? Will you be required to get and annual psych "booster" evaluation? Will you be able to do it at a CVS? Will it be covered by insurance? Medicare?

At what age should we start "testing" folks for mental illness? Recently a 6 year old shot his teacher. Is he "mental", or just "naughty"? Is it ever "too soon" to know if your kid is a potential homicidal psychopath?

It is often "too late", though, isn't it?


And once we've identified these "mentally ill" potential threats to society,...What do we Do with them?

Do we "lock them up"? Do we try to counsel and/or treat them while letting them roam freely amongst us? Should they be required to wear clothing or labels Identifying them as "Potential Mass Murderer" (but in "Treatment"!).

Then there's the question of "Who's to judge, and by what measure?".


Most of us believe ourselves to be "pretty sane", right?

How would you react to "an official mental fitness evaluator" one day declaring you unfit to have access to any implement more dangerous than a plastic "spork"? Would you willingly turn over your gun collection, or rush home to hide all your cutlery? What do suppose others would? Especially, what would the truly ill folks do?

Could you be forced to comply? Could we even force people to allow themselves to be evaluated?

What about their (our) "rights"?

If the only way to stop this insanity of mass violence is to identify (and thereafter restrain) the mentally ill among us who might commit such violence, then we must concede that the safety of the society exceeds the right of the individual's right to autonomy, at least in terms of requiring submission to psychological evaluation and disposition.


I am not really comfortable with that picture.


Oh! And let's not forget, where will find the vast number of psychologists we are going to need to conduct all these exams. And they better be really good at their jobs because the safety of the society is counting on not one of them accidentally letting a crazy person "slip by" to go on and shoot up a shopping mall.


And finally,

"Show Me The Money!!"...

Since you came up with this solution, I suppose you have some idea about how it is to be funded, right?

Trained psychologists to perform millions of evaluations, people's futures (maybe even their freedom) depending on their expertise, do not come cheap. Education, salaries, malpractice insurance, lawsuits, it all adds up real fast.

Are you expecting it all to come out of taxes?

a reply to: Moon68

Actually, I have.

Yesterday’s mass shooting was perpetuated by a man with a gun.

As with most act’s of gun violence, it is what it is.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Mahogany

originally posted by: infolurker
They won't say what has happened yet. Appears a mass shooter started popping off at an outlet mall in Texas. They have already started with the gun rhetoric. This one shall be interesting.

Oh no, have they? Gun rhetoric? Oh no!

God forbid some snowflake gets their feelings hurt over wanting background checks so Americans aren't mowed down by military rifles daily.

Look, I'm a gun owner. I carry concealed. But we can do better than this BS. Much, much better.

We can have rights and better regulation. There can be both.

as a gun owner, you should educate yourself so you don't make comments like this anymore.

A conversation needs to be had, but if it starts with guns, and doesn't mention the shooter, it's the same talk that never leads anywhere.

I'm sick of the mentally ill killing innocent people. They need to be stopped. (see what I did there, I identified the problem, and offered a solution, and not ONCE did I mention the tool the crazy person used, almost as if the tool isn't the real problem, but the fact that a crazy person felt the need to kill others)

Or you could rail on about military weapons, while not having a clue what that term means.

Then why don’t you educate this member on the differences?
Instead of mocking and playing gotcha.
Please distinguish the differences. Thank you!

originally posted by: maria_stardust
a reply to: Moon68

Actually, I have.

Yesterday’s mass shooting was perpetuated by a man with a gun.

As with most act’s of gun violence, it is what it is.

An emotionally disturbed/psychopath killed people with a tool.

As you said, it is what it is.

a reply to: Mantiss2021

How about we identify what it is about society that creates these sick people?

It isn't the guns in society that is new; it's the sick people willing to do this that is new. So something about society has changed, and not for the better. Identify that and change it. Maybe there are some progressive attitudes that shifted things not for the better? Maybe we *do* need two parents? Maybe kids do need stable households with parents of two genders? Maybe spiritual beliefs aren't such a load of crap and believing yourself the captain of your own ship with nothing and no one to hold yourself accountable to in this life isn't all it's cracked up to be?

Maybe it's all or none of those factors. Maybe it's something else, but something has changed and not for the best. And it's something about us.

Maybe it's the empty self-esteem where we tell everyone they're awesome simply because they exist without teaching them how to achieve for themselves and they never experience the process of trial and error that comes with that, including how to deal with adversity and failure, so they really are fragile little snowflakes who can't cope with reality when they get out on their own?

Maybe that's a part of it too, but it's a recent thing within the last few decades and not something to do with the guns. They've always been there.

originally posted by: Moon68

originally posted by: maria_stardust
a reply to: Moon68

Actually, I have.

Yesterday’s mass shooting was perpetuated by a man with a gun.

As with most act’s of gun violence, it is what it is.

An emotionally disturbed/psychopath killed people with a tool.

As you said, it is what it is.

How many people would have not died if the tool he chose was not a gun?

How many would have been too far away to be injured? How many more would have been able to escape? How many would have been able to defend themselves against any other "tool" but a gun?


We may not be able to keep psychopaths from killing people, but we could limit the number of people they can kill at one time by limiting the types of "tools" to which they have access.

a reply to: Mantiss2021

We can play the same game with cars and trucks on the highway though.

Let's think about that massive pileup in the dust storm in Illinois. How much worse was that because people were in personal, fast-moving vehicles?

a reply to: Mantiss2021

www.foxnews.com...

www.foxnews.com...

Mentally disturbed people will find a way to hurt people

a reply to: SammyB0476

Brazilian machete attack

This dude scaled a wall to access a daycare killing 4 and wounding at least 5 others. That's a comparable body count to some of these mass events *with a bladed weapon*.

a reply to: SourGrapes

The honest truth is there isn’t a single law on the books that hasn’t been broken by someone at some time.

It stands to reason that laws are created to address lawlessness.

For the sake of argument, let’s entertain the notion that bad guys aren’t going to abide by the laws because that’s what they do as a matter of default. Then what’s the point of having laws?

It kind of defeats the purpose, right. I mean, that’s where you’re going with this aren’t you?

How about if we reframe the situation for a moment.

This mass shooting took place in the red state of Texas.

Texans own among the most guns per capita of any state. If more guns and fewer gun laws made us safer, Texas would be the safest state. Instead, it has one of the highest rates of gun violence in the nation. It is home to four of the ten deadliest mass shootings in the nation.

Texas First Baptist Church massacre, Sutherland Springs 2017 - 26 killed, 20 injured
Luby’s massacre, Killeen 1991 - 24 killed, 20 injured
El Paso Walmart mass shooting, El Paso 2019 - 22 killed, 26 injured
Robb Elementary School massacre, Uvalde 2022 - 21 killed, 17 injured

Stats because we love numbers.

Texas lawmakers continue to undermine gun safety laws. During the last five years, Texas lawmakers reduced required safety training, allowed open carry of guns, forced college campuses to allow guns and passed permitless carry.

In fact, the Texas legislature is acting to arm election poll workers and public school staff.

But instead of regulating guns, Texas is banning books in public schools. They have gone as far as preparing elementary school children to learn to use tourniquets in order to help treat their classmates in the event of a school shooting. Books versus guns. Priorities, amirite.

Ted Cruz is convinced to problem with school shootings isn’t guns, it’s doors. How screwed up is that?

In the end, all our Texas politicians have to offer are thoughts and prayers.

So, while Texas is as pro-gun, pro-militia and pro-NRA as it gets — it isn’t a safe state.

TL;DR: America has a gun violence problem. Also, Texas lax gun laws aren’t the solution.

a reply to: Moon68

Yes, disturbed psychopaths who tend to be predominantly men whose choice of tool/weapon happens to be a gun.

This has already been established, but go on.

a reply to: ketsuko

So angry men equates to a broken society whereby more guns with less regulation is the solution.

Did I get that right?

I don’t think it’s working.

So, now that it's coming out that the shooter had stickers and patches on his jacket that indicate support for far Right extremism, I can assume we're going to see multiple threads discussing the dangers of far Right extremism not to mention al the threads devoted to seeing his manifesto.

a reply to: ketsuko

And this is just a single example of mass killings involving machetes that occur in Brazil on a near daily basis, right? Right?

originally posted by: maria_stardust
a reply to: ketsuko

Which abuse is greater:
Gun violence or the temporary nuisance of red flag/common sense gun laws?

In case you’re wondering, it’s the gun violence.

So youre against due process and the 2nd amendment?

Is this accurate?

a reply to: JinMI

So you're admitting that you support the murder of children?

Before you get offended, I'm just using the same black/white logic you've applied to other topics.

a reply to: JinMI

I’ve laid out my thoughts here.

It sounds as if you’re willing to accept the death of schoolchildren and innocent bystanders as a necessary sacrifice in lieu of even the smallest concession to regulating guns and those who should be allowed access to them.

Is this accurate?