Montana Bill 235. Scientific Fact Bill

a reply to: xuenchen

You sound like someone who has never sat through a geology class where Christians keep arguing with the teacher about how the biblical Great Flood is responsible for continental drift and the Himalayas.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: xuenchen

You sound like someone who has never sat through a geology class where Christians keep arguing with the teacher about how the biblical Great Flood is responsible for continental drift and the Himalayas.

Still can't assemble an answer? What'ya afraid of? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡

I never mentioned anything about any Religion did I. You're a clown 🤣🤣🤣🤣

a reply to: xuenchen

I never mentioned anything about any Religion did I.

I did. That's what this bill is all about. It's another version of the Scope's Monkey Trial.

No name calling please... we can do better than that.

I would have a problem accepting that a politician, or group of politicians can legislate what science is, or isn't.

Saying it must be this or that is easy for the people who go to meeting and lunches, and discuss polling and celebrity wrangling. They don't operate in, with, or for science.

People are litigious, parsing every word, and every utterance for alternate meanings and uses. In such an environment it takes a truly special effort to convey knowledge... it requires someone who can teach without indoctrinating, instruct without 'convincing'... and most importantly can do so without imposing their own biases on the information... that takes a certain willingness to sublimate themselves to the importance of their task. We lack that nowadays.

Pedagogy is an art, teaching is a responsibility, and what people decide is "scientific" and "true" is highly debatable. Recent events should demonstrate that very plainly. As far as I'm concerned 'science' is a verb.

Science doesn't "say" things, it doesn't "tell us" things... science is how we get to the fundamentals of knowledge... without marketing, without polls, without focus groups from Princeton or Yale, without "think-tank" "guidance," and most certainly without politicians or thespian production.

This is one of those bills that can't possibly 'get it right....' except maybe politically... which automatically makes it transient and vacuous.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: beyondknowledge

Except the rules of gravity break down at the quantum level. Hell, we don't even really understand what causes gravity. For all we know, our current understanding of why things fall when dropped is at the same level as blaming an imbalance in humours as the cause of illness.

Somewhat true, but does that matter in day to day life?

The clock still ticks as the weight pulles down on the chain that makes the mechanism turn. The pendulum swings to regulate the movement as it did back when we needed a good bloodletting for a cure.

Understanding forces at a quantum level might lead to a gravity drive engine but the clockworks on Earth will not notice.

Well check out the brain on Brad.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

So what is gravity? You can demonstrate an effect but not a cause.

a reply to: beyondknowledge

originally posted by: beyondknowledge

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Gender and biology are two different things. Gender identity puts girls in pink and boys in blue.

And what is this magic of pink and blue?

Before the Great War, that one before World War II, pink was for boys and blue was for girls. Pink was close to red which was considered a stronger color than blue.

So most of history, blue was for girls and pink for boys.

Not to mention platforms and knickerbockers.

Didn’t the Spanish come and slaughter natives first? Or was that the Portuguese? What about the Armenian genocide? I think your version of history is disgustingly biased and horrendously bigoted.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

why Bother lol.

a reply to: Dalamax

You know that Christopher Columbus was white, right?

If this mandate were adopted everywhere, our legacy would be "THE GENERATION THAT CREATED AND USHERED IN THE DARK AGES, THAT BEGAN IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE 21st CENTURY". I'm sure an explanation is not needed of why there is no absolute truth in science... but it strikes me as IMPERATIVE that everyone in MT watch the 1936 movie The Story of Louis Pasteur, and while watching it realize that the geniuses in MT that support this mandate are PERFECTLY REPRESENTED by the group of arrogant, close-minded, doctors and scientists that for years ridiculed Pasteur for his WACKY THEORY that some sickness and disease is caused by a world of microbes too small to see with the naked eye, and in so doing caused the death and suffering of untold millions. Their arrogance is disgusting, and that same arrogance is again running rampant in 2023!

originally posted by: frogs453

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: frogs453

What is the population of Montana?

There is a few hundred thousand students in Montana. Does it matter? They will lag behind their cohorts and will be well behind in college if they're seeking a STEM related education.

In 2023 we're proposing children be less educated? Uh.. ok.

www.thebalancemoney.com...

so you propose we don't change anything. Now, can you explain the definition of insanity please.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

The fact that a man named Hitler was able to turn a whole country into murderous bigots is disturbing and uncomfortable, and we teach about Hitler and the holocaust because it happened, and it can happen again.

The fact that Americans hunted Native Americans like animals, in order to destroy their existence. their culture, their roots for the hope of a supremely white and expansive America should make history student uncomfortable.

The purpose of teaching history is not about teaching kids to be proud of their ancestors and repeat their ways and means, but to believe they can do better than their ancestors. We teach history so that we don't repeat it.

and we tear down statues that frighten us, we erase monuments that don't fit in with today's paradigm. Someone who said what you just did, and doesn't see the same slippery slope sure needs to do a bit of self reflecting.

a reply to: frogs453

Sigh. So Montana Senate Bill 235, The scientific fact Bill, would establish science instruction requirements for schools. Not a big deal right? Unfortunately, yes.

Fortunately NO.

Science has never dealt with absolutism.

By nature it's subject to change.

Might wanna look up the scientific method. That real scientists use.

If there are any left.

The scientific method is an empirical method for acquiring knowledge that has characterized the development of science since at least the 17th century (with notable practitioners in previous centuries; see the article history of scientific method for additional detail.) It involves careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed, given that cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation. It involves formulating hypotheses, via induction, based on such observations; the testability of hypotheses, experimental and the measurement-based statistical testing of deductions drawn from the hypotheses; and refinement (or elimination) of the hypotheses based on the experimental findings. These are principles of the scientific method, as distinguished from a definitive series of steps applicable to all scientific enterprises.[1][2][3]

en.wikipedia.org...

Once upon a time on this rock.

Standard doctrine said the world was the center of the universe.

Then some rebel came along and said they're stupid,it's not..

When science becomes no longer debateable aka settled it's no longer science but religious dogma.

a reply to: frogs453

I rather doubt many Rhodes scholars come from Montana.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Dalamax

You know that Christopher Columbus was white, right?

How can they prove that? 😁

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Dalamax

You know that Christopher Columbus was white, right?

How can they prove that? 😁

Here is what Columbus looked like:

"The Admiral was a well-built man of more than average stature," in other words, he was tall; "the face long, the cheeks somewhat high, his body neither fat nor lean. He had an aquiline nose and light-colored eyes; his complexion too was light and tending to bright red. In youth his hair was blonde, but when he reached the age of thirty, it all turned white."
"The Life of the Admiral Christopher Columbus by his son Ferdinand" translated by Benjamin Keen, Chapter 3, page 9.

www.officialchristophercolumbus.com...

a reply to: network dude

And you think dumbing things down even more will help with that?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

So what.

I've seen Chinese people with blonde or White hair.

I'm sure lots of ethinicties have people like that.

PROVED NOTHING.