Montana Bill 235. Scientific Fact Bill

Sigh. So Montana Senate Bill 235, The scientific fact Bill, would establish science instruction requirements for schools. Not a big deal right? Unfortunately, yes.

The bill would prohibit teaching anything not considered scientific fact. SB 235 defines “scientific fact” as an “indisputable and repeatable observation of a natural phenomenon.”

“may not include subject matter that is not scientific fact.” It would also have school boards review all science materials to be sure they only use “scientific fact” in a “strictly enforced and narrowly interpreted” fashion.

So, evolution, theory of relativity, cell theory, gravity, atomic theory,plate tectonics? An "indisputable and repeatable observation of a natural phenomenon.” No. These are theories, not proven indisputable facts. So these would not be taught. Leaving Montana high schoolers far behind other students, especially those interested in STEM careers. Parents will also be able to report teachers regarding this in 2025.

So, schools are banning accurate history to avoid upsetting a child, banning books and now basically banning science? The younger generation will be doomed to ignorance.
Senate Bill 235

a reply to: frogs453

it's just a shame that something like this even has to be brought up. But when you have our educational institutions teaching children that Biology isn't really true, and feelings are the true measure brought us to this point. But your examples are good and show this has faults that are prohibitive, much like the entire gender fiasco.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: frogs453

it's just a shame that something like this even has to be brought up. But when you have our educational institutions teaching children that Biology isn't really true, and feelings are the true measure brought us to this point. But your examples are good and show this has faults that are prohibitive, much like the entire gender fiasco.

I haven't heard of any examples of science classes in Montana teaching that biology is wrong though.

a reply to: frogs453
Scientific Fact may not mean what you think it means.
Through repeatable observation something may be considered a scientific fact although in may not, in fact, be true.
I will also say that many things taught as scientific fact actually aren't.
Like evolution.
Macro evolution in particular.

a reply to: network dude

But when you have our educational institutions teaching children that Biology isn't really true

Is that what you think this bill is all about, keeping transgender kids off of sports teams?

a reply to: Quadrivium

Scientists and science teachers are opposing the bill, for the reasons I stated. These examples could not be taught.

a reply to: frogs453

Oh dear. That's bad. Real bad.

Schools should of course make very clear the difference between proven scientific fact and scientific theory... but science isn't complete without theories and hypotheses. It's the job of science to ask "what if" and then research and experiment and test to find and prove theories.

Maybe the schools can teach that in fact, this, that and the other theories are being studied....

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: network dude

But when you have our educational institutions teaching children that Biology isn't really true

Is that what you think this bill is all about, keeping transgender kids off of sports teams?

That's a stretch. I took it to mean that schools will be prevented from confusing kids about gender in the first place. Maybe some kids do get confused but that's not the school's business.

Literally nothing is a scientific fact. The most basic laws of physics were thought to be concrete for hundreds of years until the discovery of quantum mechanics turned them on their head.

Cell theory was theory until they made the microscope and proved that cells exist.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: network dude

But when you have our educational institutions teaching children that Biology isn't really true

Is that what you think this bill is all about, keeping transgender kids off of sports teams?

It's very obviously about transcendental music appreciation in a vacuum.

The little man that lives in your head must be a hoot.

originally posted by: frogs453

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: frogs453

it's just a shame that something like this even has to be brought up. But when you have our educational institutions teaching children that Biology isn't really true, and feelings are the true measure brought us to this point. But your examples are good and show this has faults that are prohibitive, much like the entire gender fiasco.

I haven't heard of any examples of science classes in Montana teaching that biology is wrong though.

I don't live there, nor go to school there, but with the current problems of defining what a "woman" actually is, and academics teaching children that man can get pregnant, and women can have a penis sure doesn't sound like the biology I was taught. If you doubt me, go to google and ask if a man can get pregnant.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Gender and biology are two different things. Gender identity puts girls in pink and boys in blue.

Cell theory is biology, but now you can't teach that and about the magic of DNA in public schools in Montana.

Cell Theory
Scientists once thought that life spontaneously arose from nonliving things. Thanks to experimentation and the invention of the microscope, it is now known that life comes from preexisting life and that cells come from preexisting cells.

These findings led to the formation of the modern cell theory, which has three main additions: first, that DNA is passed between cells during cell division; second, that the cells of all organisms within a similar species are mostly the same, both structurally and chemically; and finally, that energy flow occurs within cells.

education.nationalgeographic.org...

originally posted by: Sookiechacha


Cell theory is biology, but now you can't teach that and about the magic of DNA in public schools in Montana.

so this bill has already passed and is now law?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: frogs453

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: frogs453

it's just a shame that something like this even has to be brought up. But when you have our educational institutions teaching children that Biology isn't really true, and feelings are the true measure brought us to this point. But your examples are good and show this has faults that are prohibitive, much like the entire gender fiasco.

I haven't heard of any examples of science classes in Montana teaching that biology is wrong though.

I don't live there, nor go to school there, but with the current problems of defining what a "woman" actually is, and academics teaching children that man can get pregnant, and women can have a penis sure doesn't sound like the biology I was taught. If you doubt me, go to google and ask if a man can get pregnant.

Again, I cannot find any reports that science teachers in Montana are teaching that men can be pregnant.

a reply to: network dude

So you wouldn't have any issue if they taught the demonstrable physiological differences between transgender and cisgender individuals in biology class?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Literally nothing is a scientific fact. The most basic laws of physics were thought to be concrete for hundreds of years until the discovery of quantum mechanics turned them on their head.

Unless it's about covid vaccines not causing side effects. Then it's scientific fact.

Some teachers will be planning exit strategies soon 🤣

Fact vs Speculation and/or wild ass theories and nut opinions 😀

a reply to: xuenchen


Theory of relativity or gravity is "wild or nut opinions"?