Pro-life activist arrested for praying silently near an abortion facility

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Maxmars

Arrested for being Christian.

Arrested for going out of her way to make that officer's day more interesting. She could have picked literally any street but she just couldn't resist being an example.

Recently there was a topic about a gay journalist being arrested and dying in jail in Qatar. The general response on this forum was basically "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

Now we know what that shoe looks like on the other foot.

In Qatar, incidents like that would be expected. Not so much in the UK / Western world. Hence, surprise when it does.

a reply to: Klassified

There are abortion clinics in Qatar?

a reply to: continuousThunder

i would assume, given what i have experienced of groups like this, is that "were you praying" is less of an "i hate and will arrest christians" thing and more of a way to get her to admit to causing a nuisance.

Praying, however, is not something that can offend anyone else. Prayer is supposed to be done in private. As I have stated, there are many days when I am in prayer constantly; there is no point during which I am not praying. I could be stopped at any time by anyone and asked that question. My only choices would be to be arrested (if I told the truth) or to deny Jesus (if I lied).

The business was closed. She was alone. She was not speaking; the prayer was silent. How could the question of her praying have any effect on her being a nuisance at that point in time?

I suspect, after hearing you out, that the police were referencing vocal, obnoxious prayer as you have experienced. That is not, to most Christians, prayer. Since this thread is over a religious question, I will invoke the Bible, where Jesus Himself stated such in Matthew 6:1-6.

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

I think we have all experienced the "Karen" moments like you describe. Yes, that was an excuse and it was coming from a hypocrite. The Christian religion is full of such hypocrites. However, just because one calls themselves a Christian and prays silently as Jesus taught, it does not mean they should receive the same punishment as those who violate not only Jesus' teachings, but man's laws and common decency as well. In truth, you shouldn't be angry with that lady; you should pity her. Her fate in the hereafter will not be pleasant if she does not repent.

Let me be plain about that situation: I take it you are lesbian from your explanation. According to traditional Christian dogma, yes, that is a sin (I am not yet convinced of that, but for the sake of argument I present it). However, the Bible passage I just quoted identifies that woman who accosted you (and I do believe it rose to such a level) also sinned. So she is no better than you in the eyes of the God she claims to worship.

I must ask, however, what is the difference between you holding hands with your significant other and being persecuted for it, and this woman silently praying and being persecuted for that? There are lesbians who are as in-you-face hateful as you describe the lady who accosted you, but I do not use that to judge you... nor should I. Why, then, do you use the actions of others to judge me as a Christian?

When praying itself becomes a legal offense, and when you support such, that is exactly what you are doing. If she is a nuisance, arrest her for being a nuisance. But whether or not she is praying while being a nuisance should be irrelevant.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Terpene

You know, your response would make a lot of sense, save for this one statement:

here you are protecting a known disturbance to the social peace

The OP declares that she was standing in front of the building, presumably on the sidewalk/street in front of the building, after it was closed, alone, and not making a sound. That is not creating a "disturbance to the peace." For you to characterize it as such is to admit that, in your mind, her offense was being a Christian. There certainly wasn't any other offense happening at that moment.

Had she been with a group, making noise, during business hours, defacing property, etc. I wouldn't have a problem with her arrest. I might even be cheering the cops on. But that's not what is being presented.

Let me fill you in how protesting goes if you're a lone wolf, as you obviously have no idea.

You're right; I don't go around trying to tick others off. If I have a problem with a business that falls outside legal remedies, I have this weird and strange method of handling it: I stop giving them my business and I tell others what they did.

Yeah, color me weird, I know. Seems to work, though.

I'll still disagree with what happened to you, as long as you were on public property and not trying to block access. Had I known about it at the time, I would be on here defending you just as I am here now defending this woman's rights. Public property is just that: public. I don't see how anyone, even a bank, can declare someone as trespassing on public property. They don't own it.

why in the world should her religion change anything in that matter?

That's my whole point: IT SHOULDN'T! The cops made her religion matter when they asked her if she had been praying.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
In truth, you shouldn't be angry with that lady;

mate when i said she was throwing things that wasn't hyperbole - she had a bag of walnuts or something and she was throwing them at us. We went out to get bread and went home with bruises, i think i'm fairly well within my right to be a bit steamed about it. As for pitying her for going to hell or whatever, i honestly couldn't care less. All i want is to be able to buy a lemonade without wondering if someone will give me welts for it.

I must ask, however, what is the difference between you holding hands with your significant other and being persecuted for it, and this woman silently praying and being persecuted for that?

the difference here is that she is not being persecuted for her beliefs. she wasn't out for an innocent stroll, she wasn't going about her business when she was attacked by anti-christians. No one saw her leaving woolworths and started screaming "BURN" while ditching walnuts at her. Quite the reverse, in fact! She and her companions HAVE BEEN THROWING WALNUTS AT OTHER PEOPLE FOR A DECADE until they were finally banned from the area. Think of it like a restraining order. If you take out a restraining order on an abusive ex, is it religious persecution if they're found standing under your window "just praying"?

Why, then, do you use the actions of others to judge me as a Christian?

When did i ever do or say anything judging you? I said that groups like this have a recognised MO of harrassing people and then passing it off as their religion. No one is being persecuted for praying. No one is being persecuted for praying! they were ALREADY banned from the area - not for prayer but for harrassment - and won't stay away, using prayer as an EXCUSE. This doesn't line up with any of how you describe your own practice or belief so i am at a total loss as to how you reach that conclusion. If anything i kinda feel like you should be the most outspoken of all of us against these people - it's your beliefs they are co-opting, it's your religion they try and hide behind to cover their foul behaviour.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Why do musslims not pray in fron of churches and what happens when they do?
It's not that they are not allowed, someone might be offended, they'd be asked to leaf by authority, they might refuse. We all know how that ends. They might comply and be back an hour later. How many times do you think one can make that? You'd think with all the smart ass, we'd have a law to prevent that from happening, and we have....

It's a two or more step program. Usually you get a temporal ban for something that warrants one, by the city authorities. Any abuse of a ban is trespassing.
You don't really have to do anything more, than trespass, to be guilty of trespass, do you?
Theoretically you're not even allowed to walk by as long as the ban is in effect, but their response time us to slow if anyone even noticed you.
The idea is to disperse illegal protest and not overloading the Prisons, while still trying to keep you from just joining again.

It's a great tactic used by protest prone individuals to make it look like police overreach, it's usually a planed action with the media team ready...
this checks all the boxes, and even has a little of that soros smell....

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Klassified

There are abortion clinics in Qatar?

Read Tzar's post, then mine. If you can still ask that question, I can't help you, see an English teacher.

The misleading article certainly seems to have had the fully intended effect.

The fact that there are people here defending this arrest tells you exactly why Western society is doomed.

a reply to: Maxmars

...in ANY act...and includes...

...which makes it illegal for an individual to engage in any act or attempted act of approval or disapproval as it relates to abortion and includes "verbal or written means" like "prayer or counseling."

It's a buffer zone and the person doing whatever they were doing was lingering in the buffer zone.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Maxmars

Arrested for being Christian.

Arrested for going out of her way to make that officer's day more interesting. She could have picked literally any street but she just couldn't resist being an example.

Recently there was a topic about a gay journalist being arrested and dying in jail in Qatar. The general response on this forum was basically "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

Now we know what that shoe looks like on the other foot.

This guy welcomes complete 1984 level tyranny with open arms, out of pure spite and hatred for anything conservative or christian

Where is the original source of the news? I would like to read it. Thanks.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Maxmars

Arrested for being Christian.

Arrested for going out of her way to make that officer's day more interesting. She could have picked literally any street but she just couldn't resist being an example.

Recently there was a topic about a gay journalist being arrested and dying in jail in Qatar. The general response on this forum was basically "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

Now we know what that shoe looks like on the other foot.

Your comparison is totally defunct .

Why? Because you've never been gay and oppressed for it? My argument was that outrage is immediate when it's christian politics and completely absent when it's some dumb LGBT loser.

originally posted by: JDmOKI

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Maxmars

Arrested for being Christian.

Arrested for going out of her way to make that officer's day more interesting. She could have picked literally any street but she just couldn't resist being an example.

Recently there was a topic about a gay journalist being arrested and dying in jail in Qatar. The general response on this forum was basically "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

Now we know what that shoe looks like on the other foot.

I don't understand your comparison. Being openly gay in Qatar is a massive risk. Maybe we just have higher standards for places that claim to be "free"

If she said she was just thinking about how she disagrees with abortion should she still be arrested?

If I was religious I'd prey anywhere I freaking choose

That's correct, you don't understand because you're reacting instead of thinking. Status quo.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Maxmars

Arrested for being Christian.

Arrested for going out of her way to make that officer's day more interesting. She could have picked literally any street but she just couldn't resist being an example.

Recently there was a topic about a gay journalist being arrested and dying in jail in Qatar. The general response on this forum was basically "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

Now we know what that shoe looks like on the other foot.

In Qatar, incidents like that would be expected. Not so much in the UK / Western world. Hence, surprise when it does.

Except it's not a surprise. She fully expected to be arrested and that was the objective of her little social experiment. I would put money on it.

a reply to: continuousThunder

mate when i said she was throwing things that wasn't hyperbole

I didn't think it was! I have experienced that myself, and it can be dangerous. I wasn't trying to dismiss your concerns; I was agreeing with them. You should not have been subjected to that, but it was by one woman... not all Christians.

the difference here is that she is not being persecuted for her beliefs. she wasn't out for an innocent stroll, she wasn't going about her business when she was attacked by anti-christians.

I disagree. When the police asked her if she had been praying, that moved it into prosecution for her beliefs. No no one threw walnuts at her, but she was arrested.

I don't know what she did before. But how far do we take that? Some 6-year-old kids throws a ball through a window and gets arrested for standing in front of the same place when he's 40 because he's carrying a ball? Besides, again, the police didn't ask her what her name was and then arrest her for being where she was forbidden to be... they asked her if she had been praying and arrested her when she said yes!

Was she allowed to be there as long as she wasn't praying?

When did i ever do or say anything judging you? I said that groups like this have a recognised MO of harrassing people and then passing it off as their religion.

Define "groups like this," please. Groups that are praying?

I pray.

No one is being persecuted for praying. No one is being persecuted for praying!

Then what business was it of the police's? Why did they arrest her for saying she might have been praying?

If she was banned, she was banned, praying or not. Right?

TheRedneck

a reply to: Terpene

Why do musslims not pray in fron of churches and what happens when they do?

If they're silently praying in front of a church, nothing should happen. I personally wouldn't be a part of any church that forbad someone from standing outside the church silently doing nothing wrong, whether they're talking with God (or Allah) or not.

If they're being a nuisance, fine. Silent prayer is not being a nuisance.

Let me ask you this: suppose we are both sitting in a restaurant and I have my head slightly bowed in silent prayer. Do you consider me a nuisance for doing so?

You don't really have to do anything more, than trespass, to be guilty of trespass, do you?

No, you don't. But, again, and I will repeat this as many times as it takes to get a straight answer, was she on public property? The abortion clinic wasn't even open! It was abandoned! And she was specifically asked if she was praying before she was arrested!

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

UK implemented this policy to reduce the interaction of busybodies trying to sabotage their facilities.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: TheRedneck

UK implemented this policy to reduce the interaction of busybodies trying to sabotage their facilities.

It's a law and also prevents harassment of women seeking an abortion.

Has she got previous for harassment or being a nuisance within the buffer zone? There's probably more to this than meets the eye.

Why not pray at home? Does praying have a signal strength like wifi?

So you have to be closer to the thing you're praying about for the prayer to be 'stronger' or more 'powerful'. Why? God is omnipresent, she'll notice it wherever.

She must have been there a while for someone to notice her out of the ordinary, phone the police, and then the time it takes for the police to attend. Blimey, she must have been really bending god's ear all that time! Our police don't usually have very fast response times, only for terrorism or guns do they drop the biscuits.

originally posted by: baggy7981
Has she got previous for harassment or being a nuisance within the buffer zone? There's probably more to this than meets the eye.

Why not pray at home? Does praying have a signal strength like wifi?

So you have to be closer to the thing you're praying about for the prayer to be 'stronger' or more 'powerful'. Why? God is omnipresent, she'll notice it wherever.

She must have been there a while for someone to notice her out of the ordinary, phone the police, and then the time it takes for the police to attend. Blimey, she must have been really bending god's ear all that time! Our police don't usually have very fast response times, only for terrorism or guns do they drop the biscuits.

It's unclear why she would be there when the clinic was closed (if it was, I haven't read any source article relating to this), seems odd, maybe she has problems.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Except it's not a surprise. She fully expected to be arrested and that was the objective of her little social experiment. I would put money on it.

Interesting. I won't presume to know her thinking, but I can't say you're wrong.