Pro-life activist arrested for praying silently near an abortion facility

a reply to: Terpene

at some point they'd be right though, stopped clock and all that, but failing to recognise how circular societies are is a common blind spot the world is not the USA..

the English have gone into and out of religion many times, I'm seeing a rise in Christian graffiti I've not seen in my life i can't help but think it an interesting precursor, as a topic abortion has come and gone a number of times. protesting at these places has been unheard for most of my life its that much of a modern import..

But then think of the transformation of Victorian London had with similar rates of single parents and abortions as now but with added baby farming it transformed into a very Christian city.. (on the surface)

Certain tipping points create drastic change, the thing with today is people assume it'll be into more atheism when history has shown the opposite actually happens, post the puritan witch burning came the cunning folk as the magical police.. societies spin in many ways..

a reply to: Maxmars

The orders she violated were in place because her organisation repeatedly harassed people going to the abortion clinic, surrounding businesses or just having the misfortune of being in the general area when this belligerent group was around. Garnering thousands of complaints until the local authorities became sick of their inability to peacefully protest.

a reply to: Maxmars

The protest that got me the ban certainly was offensive enough to warrant one. Like preaching whatever ideology I hold dear in a buffer zone in which ideologies regarding a certain topic are not to be preached. I might get an individual ban in that buffer zone, and for good reasons.

If I think, and I've seen it among the protest prone individuals, I'm really smart and go back into the banned zone and do absolutely nothing, just stand there silently, on the surface it will look like police overreach, but it isn't. I committed trespass.

Play stupid games win stupid prizes...

a reply to: Ohanka

I didn't realize (or the article itself failed to provide the context) that she was part of an organized presence.

I also didn't see any indication that she was belligerent. But I can't argue that whatever group she is apparently 'representing' by being there hasn't been guilty of past bad behavior.

Clearly, my observations are unwelcome, I can only hope that my inquiry and comments aren't similarly 'characterized.'

Thanks for your patience.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Not ironic, just predictable...

More like a wide-scale utter lack of awareness. Self or otherwise.

Regardless, though, the same people who lick the boot are upset when said boot stomps on them. And act shocked. It always happens.

Whatever you allow your government to do unto others, they will do unto you when they have run out of "others" to do it to.

a reply to: Ohanka

The pro choice crowd is barred too, and had a major hand in escalating the conflicts.

Just saying

originally posted by: Terpene
Christians are not exempt from breaking the law

But is the law exempt from violating a person's inalienable rights to freedom of religion?

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yeah it's all covered in the Birmingham Mail articles I posted. Police and PCSOs had spent several years dealing with them prior to the order and she's head of the 40 Days for Life group who've been given several anti-social behaviour orders over the years and caused protection order to come into force.

Over 2105 people registered complaints with the council and police about the issue. During the consultation many high profifle events and meetings with campaigners took place.

The PSPO is posted on local lamposts in the zone affected - it's a legal requirement to display notice of such orders in place, known as the 'red hand rule'. Police couldn't have charged her is there wasn't clear evidence she was in breach of the order.

The PSPO banned any abortion protest, whether pro or anti in the region because of the detrimental effect it has had on the local area so obviously it's not an attempt to ban prayer.

She's not someone who was innocently walking down the road and arrested for praying for no reason; she's got a decade long history of breaking the law and orders preventing her from being there despite her claims of being the victim.

a reply to: Maxmars

Not unwelcome at all. Just the article was inaccurate and I dare say was the sort of piece this lady envisioned beforehand.

originally posted by: Ohanka
a reply to: Maxmars

The orders she violated were in place because her organisation repeatedly harassed people going to the abortion clinic, surrounding businesses or just having the misfortune of being in the general area when this belligerent group was around. Garnering thousands of complaints until the local authorities became sick of their inability to peacefully protest.

How do you peacefully protest without out causing discomfort to the people and businesses that just happen to be in the area?

I guess you can always just stand quietly by yourself in public ... nope that's seems to be out now too.

I guess you can just sit quietly in your own home ...

... inaction and apathy: The new and aproved form of protest brought to you by local authorities sick of doing their jobs and myopic citizens who lack the ability to understand that just because they dont approve of the current protest doesn't mean they might not find a cause to protest in the future but won't be able to because they cheared their freedoms away.

a reply to: TrulyColorBlind

I'm for treating ideologies the same... Why religons get a special standing in the laws is something that has to be addressed, especially when other ideologies can be bared by a religious board from becoming a religion.
but hey we don't want to go there do we?
just enjoy the privileges while they last.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: TrulyColorBlind

I'm for treating ideologies the same... Why religons get a special standing in the laws is something that has to be addressed

Religion is treated by the law as an inalienable right. I'm not for treating them differently just so that every ideology can be treated the same. There was a reason why religion was singled out in the law as being special. The right to freedom of religion is the law. There's no way to get around that, legally.

I just had a thought...

We have, in the USA, had an instance where a Christian baker refused to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex couple. Now we have a Supreme Court case where a Christian lady who wishes to create websites for heterosexual weddings is running afoul of the law for simply saying that is her choice. In both those cases, like this one, the business is restricting who they will serve... in this case, it goes even farther, as the business is trying to restrict who can walk in front of their building.

In the two US cases I mentioned, the narrative was "How dare this business owner not allow everyone equal access!" In this case, that narrative is more like "How dare someone expect a business to allow everyone equal access!" It seems backwards.

There is a commonality, though. In all three cases, it is the Christian who is at fault... for not agreeing to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex couple, for daring to state openly she only wishes to write wedding websites for heterosexual couples, and for daring to walk in front of an abortion clinic. That's the only commonality I can find; any other interpretation is the definition of hypocrisy.

It seems the Bible was right again. This was foretold almost 2000 years ago. I guess I should thank everyone supporting the police for helping prove the Bible speaks truth.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
"How dare this business owner not allow everyone equal access!"

That reminds me of all the people who used to say when Conservatives were being banned left and right on various platforms that the people who owned that business could do whatever they wanted to - after all it was their business. Where are those people in these situations and how come they never seem to show up and support these businesses right to do things their way?

originally posted by: Terpene
Christians are not exempt from breaking the law

But is the law exempt from violating a person's inalienable rights to freedom of religion?

a reply to: bastion

OK, I went back and read that... sorry for missing it earlier. If the group has been interfering with access, I see a legal reason to restrict group activities. No problem there. I thank you for educating me.

But where I have a problem is the question: "Were you praying?" If she was barred from the area, why did that even matter? Did the PSPO only bar activists from that group who were praying? That sounds pretty anti-Christian to me, and it is in the law! Or did the PSPO ban people who were causing the ruckus from being there? That sounds more reasonable, but that would mean all the police needed was her ID to make the arrest. There was no need to know if she was praying or not.

I am not familiar with UK politics, so I ask you: is praying itself illegal per that PSPO? Can a person be prohibiting from silent prayer in the UK? Can a person be jailed for praying in the UK?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Maxmars
How would we, as consumers of news in another country know that?

well this here is the crux of the issue, isn't it? You could very easily have done some googling and found the articles linked above by Bastion, or you could have applied critical thinking for the briefest of moments - clearly people aren't being arrested merely for praying, that would come with an unimaginable and unignorable escalation of force - but no, this is lovely grist for the good ol' ATS no-one-is-as-oppressed-as-white-middle-class-christians mill so why look any further?

Almost every single issue belaboured on this accursed site of the last few years could be so much less of an issue if people would simply investigate further and read from wider sources.

a reply to: Terpene

Why religons get a special standing in the laws is something that has to be addressed, especially when other ideologies can be bared by a religious board from becoming a religion.

I'll go there.

No religion (defined as a specific system of beliefs concerning deity, afterlife, and/or morals) should be prohibited form exercising the same rights and privileges of any other religion. Everyone: atheists, Christians, pagans, Hindu, Muslims, Jewish, Sikh, Buddhists, Flying Purple Spaghetti Monster worshipers, even Satanists, should have the right to congregate, hold services, evangelize (within reason), perform ceremonies (again within reason; no human sacrifices), and express their beliefs with equal impunity from legal intervention.

But that's not what happened here. According to the actions and words of the police, this woman was arrested for praying. I cannot get past that.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

i would assume, given what i have experienced of groups like this, is that "were you praying" is less of an "i hate and will arrest christians" thing and more of a way to get her to admit to causing a nuisance.
When confronted for their abhorrent behaviour and harrassment, many of these people will turn to "i was praying for them" as an excuse. I once had a woman who had been throwing things at me and screaming in my face at the top of her lungs because i was holding hands with another woman call that "praying" when security turned up.

So yeah, less anti-christian and more that certain people proudly use their religion as protection for some horrible things.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yes, she had the same idea

It didn't work out. The spin you try to put on this is hilarious, and ending with hypocrisy was just the cherry on top.



Try and make a business that only serves white people. it's about public perception, and that changes over time. It's a good thing when it changes to be more inclusive, if that is in conflict with your ideologies, that's on you, it's akin to ask Rassist to be alowed to only serve white people.

You would condemn that stupid behavior in every other protest prone idiot, but here you are protecting a known disturbance to the social peace because christian, you've got to have intuitively put that hypocrisy argument there. A little like the libtards that acuse the others 8f what zhey themselfs do.
funny ain't it, we always only see the tricks we use ourself in an argument.

Let me fill you in how protesting goes if you're a lone wolf, as you obviously have no idea.

If you haven't got a personal ban for that zone, you can walk by anytime anywhere and murmur like a fool all you want.
Now if it's in front of a place that is known to Harbour political tensions, someone will notice you, if your NOT just passing by, and inform authority.
At that point you can leaf the place and hope they let it go, or stay. For those who stay, it should be the same procedure no matter what.
do that a couple of times and you'll get a permanent ban, go back and you are legally trespassing.

why in the world should her religion change anything in that matter?