U.S. Supreme Court Rules Mailed-In Ballots Without a Postmark Date Can NOT Be Counted.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Federal law states that the State Governments are in control of voting procedures in their State.

Pennsylvania Law states that ballots must be filled out completely and correctly. That includes the signature and date on the envelopes.

Pennsylvania Law states that Absentee Ballots must be postmarked. If they are not postmarked then they are not filled out completely nor correctly. There is an exception for ballots that are personally dropped off at the County Bureau of Election Offices. Those must be timestamped.

Since law states that Absentee Ballots must be postmarked or timestamped, ballots placed in drop boxes are illegal and invalid.

Absentee ballots must be requested by the voter. Any unrequested ballots are invalid by law.

The Wolf Administration made arbitrary changes to election procedures without approval of the Legislature citing "emergency powers". The validity of those "emergency powers" have not yet been determined by the Courts.

The United States Supreme Court has ruled that the election laws must be followed for the 2022 General Election. Both the Governor and the Secretary of State have basically said that they will do what they want, defying the USSC.

There's the facts as of this moment. It's could get interesting.

Double post.

a reply to: JIMC5499

Sounds like the governor and SoS should get a visit from United States Marshals. It is high time to put on notice those who arbitrarily rewrite laws and procedures.

Of course, with the current administration, there is no chance of that happening.

Cheers

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: JIMC5499

Sounds like the governor and SoS should get a visit from United States Marshals. It is high time to put on notice those who arbitrarily rewrite laws and procedures.

Of course, with the current administration, there is no chance of that happening.

Cheers

10.25.2022

We'll have to see if NEW YORK officials obey a ruling handed down from a state Judge today.

A New York judge has dealt a major blow to Democratic advocates of widespread mail-in voting.

In a Monday ruling, Saratoga County Supreme Court Justice Dianne Freestone, a Republican, said that voting by mail over the fear of COVID-19 violates the state’s constitution. She wrote that the Democrat-controlled New York legislature “appears poised to continue the expanded absentee voting provisions of New York State Election Law … in an Orwellian perpetual state of health emergency and cloaked in the veneer of ‘voter enfranchisement.'”

Her 28-page ruling ordered local election boards to cease counting absentee ballots that they have already received and to “preserve” them until after the Nov. 8 midterm election date or until another lawsuit filed by state Republicans is resolved. Notably, her ruling does not invalidate ballots that local boards have already received.

More at: conservativebrief.com...

If these trends continue, next month's mid-term elections look to be quite a bit more secure and honest, than 2020 was.

This is going to go BOOM!

Pennsylvania law states that the outer and inner envelopes are to be kept with the ballot to be used as verification of a recount. The majority envelopes have been destroyed because of guidance from the Wolf Administration. Theoretically a Judge could order a recount of the 2020 election and order that every ballot that doesn't have the envelops be discarded thus invalidating the 2020 election. I don't see it happening.

I AM waiting to see what happens in two weeks. All hell could break loose.

a reply to: JIMC5499

Is PA one of the states where votes can be counted as the ballots are received from the postal service and drop-boxes?

a reply to: carewemust

They are not supposed to be. They should all be counted at the same time, but the Wolf Administration has shown that they will do what they want no matter what the law is.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: carewemust

They are not supposed to be. They should all be counted at the same time, but the Wolf Administration has shown that they will do what they want no matter what the law is.

Sounds like the good citizens of PA should ban together and do a citizens' arrest.

a reply to: SourGrapes

Until a Court rules on the legality of his actions, he's not yet done anything to be arrested for. The US Supreme Court's ruling just came out a few days ago. Can't really do anything to him until after November 8th. The funny thing is that he won't be doing anything. The Election is in the hands of the Secretary of State. All they are doing is advising. The only people who would actually be doing anything would be the Poll Workers. They are not stupid, neither are we.

a reply to: JIMC5499

Federal law states that the State Governments are in control of voting procedures in their State.

The Voting Rights Act, which is also federal law, states:

“No person acting under color of law shall . . . deny the right of any individual to vote in any election because of an error or omission on any record or paper related to any application, registration, or other act requisite to voting, if such error or omission is not material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election.”
§10101(a)(2)(B).

LINK

Pennsylvania Law states that ballots must be filled out completely and correctly. That includes the signature and date on the envelopes.

The 3rd Circuit Court ruled that rule violates the Voting Rights Act, and SCOTUS upheld the decision to count the ballots with misdated or undated return envelopes in June, 2022.

Pennsylvania Law states that Absentee Ballots must be postmarked. If they are not postmarked then they are not filled out completely nor correctly.

Postmarks are issued by the United States Post office. This issue isn't about USPS postmarks. It's about the handwritten date next to the voter's signature.

Absentee ballots must be requested by the voter. Any unrequested ballots are invalid by law.

This particular issue isn't about the legality of absentee voter eligibility either. It's strictly about misdated and/or undated ballot return envelopes, and whether or not they can be licitly counted.

The Wolf Administration made arbitrary changes to election procedures without approval of the Legislature citing "emergency powers". The validity of those "emergency powers" have not yet been determined by the Courts.

Again, not the issue at hand.

The United States Supreme Court has ruled that the election laws must be followed for the 2022 General Election. Both the Governor and the Secretary of State have basically said that they will do what they want, defying the USSC.

As far as I know, the only issue with the November 2022 election is whether or not misdated and undated ballots will be counted. The PA SOS announced that she is encouraging each county to do the right thing, to NOT violate the Voting Rights Act and to count all legitimate voters' ballots.

Again, the only issue at hand is whether or not it's constitutional to count misdated and/or undated return envelope ballots.

As of today, the question is unresolved, and heading to court again.

Since it seems to me that the Supreme Court is poised to overturn the Voting Rights Act, I predict SCOTUS will rule those ballots can be rejected if state law says they can, overruling the Voting Rights Act.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Don't you know that the Voting Rights Act only applies to the person registering to vote?

“No person acting under color of law shall . . . deny the right of any individual to vote in any election because of an error or omission on any record or paper related to any application, registration, or other act requisite to voting, if such error or omission is not material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election.”
§10101(a)(2)(B).

That means that you cannot be denied the right to vote. It has NOTHING to do with the ballot itself. It is a law that states that you cannot be denied the right to vote. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: Xcathdra

One thing that may be overlooked here. Ballot drop boxes are illegal under Pennsylvania law. Absentee ballots must be sent through the US mail and be postmarked.

PA Election law requires a hand written date. Post office / post marks are not acceptable under PA election law. From what I have read from the June ruling every time a ballot (mail in / absentee) is received at an election location office the envelopes are date / time stamped. All locations use that procedure which is what allowed the US Supreme Court to temporarily accept the 3rd circuits initial ruling.

That has since been revoked, reverting back to actual PA election law that requires a signature and a date, otherwise it is invalid and cannot be counted.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Sections of "Voting Rights Act" may in fact be unconstitutional.

And who gets popped if the envelopes are not recycled? 🤣🤣

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Does all that jazz apply to the "signature" lines too ?🤣🤣

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
No, you haven't. You've provided gish gallops, spin, gaslighting lies, insults and lots of personal bias and right wing rhetorical talking points.

Fact: 3rd Circuit Court ruled the law violates the Voting Rights Act.

The 3rd circuit ruling was reversed by Scotus.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Fact: SCOTUS upheld the Court's ruling in June.

and then reversed the 3rds ruling.

The reversal shows its not a violation of the VRA and it has been proven to you that the VRA defers to state election laws. Secondly "acting under color of law" applies to law enforcement.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Fact: Ritter lost his election and sued, petitioning SCOTUS to vacate the lower court ruling so as not to bind future courts with precedent.

He lost because the state allowed illegal undated ballots to be counted, putting the Democrat 5 votes over the Ritter. Hence the reason he sued. A precedent has already been established by the PA Supreme Court. Scotus put a stop to that when they ruled PA can NOT accept mail in ballots that are correctly filled out.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Fact: SCOTUS ordered the 3rd Circuit Court to "vacate" its ruling and consider the question "moot".

Only for Ritters challenge. Scotus ruling requires PA to not count mail in ballots that are not completely filled out, as PA election law says.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Fact: Pennsylvania SOS vows not to violated the Voting Rights Act, and encourages counties to count undated ballots.

It is not a violation of the VRA as the act clearly refers / defers to state election laws.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Fact: RNC files suit against Pennsylvania SOS over intention to count undated ballots.

Thats because the ballots are illegal under PA election law.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
This thread is based on a lie and is riddled lie after lie throughout.

Uhm no its not.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
The case was never about Postmarks.

Correct, its about election fraud.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
SCOTUS did not rule that undated ballots can't be counted.

as a matter of fact Scotus did order PA to not accept mail in ballots that arent proper under PA state law.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Pennsylvania's SOS didn't just decide to count the undated ballots set aside to that Ritter would lose to a Democrat.

Her guidance was to accept the ballots even though they are illegal under PA law.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Nothing achieved through this undated ballot battle will do anything to stem voter fraud.

So you think election fraud should be ignored?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
The GOP and the Federalist Society and their extremist SCOTUS justices are intent on decimating the Voting Rights Act.

Now scotus is extremest?

You need to read AND understand what it is you are reading. Laws and fact cannot be dismissed just because you dont like nor understand the law.

The PA Sec State was forced to resign because she illegally ignored Scotus in 2020. The current PA acting Sec State is making the same illegal move.

If you and the people of PA dont like the law then have it changed. If the legislature doesnt comply then you have the right to replace them with reps that will listen to the people. Absent that the legislature is responsible for Federal elections and they already spoke on the topic when they made the requirements to have a mail in ballot accepted.

The days of judicial activism are over with. The days of the Executive branch thinking they can make changes to the law on their own are over with.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Voting by mail-in or absentee ballot is safe, secure, and easy. (Direct from the PA Secretary of State)

Down the page is the section for "How do I vote and return my mail-in or absentee ballot?".

Step 2
Seal your ballot in the inner secrecy envelope that indicates "official election ballot." Do not make any marks on the inner secrecy envelope.
Your ballot must be enclosed and sealed in the inner secrecy envelope that indicates "official election ballot" or it will not be counted.


Step 3
Seal the inner secrecy envelope in the pre-addressed outer return envelope. Complete the voter’s declaration on the outside of the outer return envelope.
If you do not complete the declaration on the return envelope your ballot will not be counted.


Towards the bottom of the page -
Why are there two envelopes with my mail-in ballot?

The smaller secrecy envelope is intended to protect the anonymity of your vote. After you fill out your ballot, you must place it in the secrecy envelope and seal it.

Do not make any marks on this envelope. If you fail to place and seal your ballot in this envelope or if you make marks on this envelope, your ballot will not be counted.

The second, larger envelope is the mailing and declaration envelope. You must use it, even if you are dropping your ballot off at a drop box. Place your secrecy envelope (with your ballot inside) into the mailing and declaration envelope. You must seal it and sign and date the declaration before you can return your ballot.

Both of these envelopes must be used in order for your vote to count.

KEY word - BOTH

not one envelope, but BOTH. Without either the vote will not count.


The website specifically states that postmarks are not acceptable for date verification for deadlines. Both, the inner envelope, and outer envelope, are official documents which is why signatures and dates are required.

Also, being you dont understand the PA Constitution, Section 14, deals specifically with mail in voting. It spells out the exact criteria where mail ion ballots are allowed.

Sec. 14. Absentee voting.

(a) The Legislature shall, by general law, provide a manner in which … qualified electors who … are unable to attend at their proper polling places because of illness or physical disability … may vote, and for the return and canvass of their votes in the district in which they respectively reside.

To help you out the no excuse needed to vote by mail is unconstitutional. When they tried changing that law, they failed to change the state Constitution to allow it. People can only vote by mail for illness or physical disabilities.

Voters must fill out the 2 forms completely and include the info that is required. If they dont their ballot can not be accepted. Essentially PA made the envelopes as official affidavits.

Affidavits

A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.A written declaration upon oath; a statement of facts in writing signed by the affiant, and sworn to or confirmed by a declaration before a notary public, a magistrate, or other authorized officer.A sworn statement in writing; a declaration in writing, signed and made upon oath before an authorized magistrate.

The required date and signature is what makes the mail in ballots legal under PA law. The person filling them out is stating they are who they are, that they filled out the ballots AND returned envelopes, and the date requirement shows it made the deadline. They are filling out the forms under possible criminal charges if they are lying (election fraud) and their ballot will not be counted.

* - PA State Constitution
* - PA Secretary of State government website on voting in PA

you up to speed now?

and the VRA -


again, from your source -

(B) deny the right of any individual to vote in any election because of an error or omission on any record or paper relating to any application, registration, or other act requisite to voting, if such error or omission is not material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election; or

PA State election law REQUIRES info on the ballot and the envelopes to be completely filled out, otherwise their vote does not count.This is explained on the website for voting as well as instruction included with the ballots. Failing to fill out the required sections disqualifies a person from voting and/or having their vote counted as legal, meeting the requirement set forth in the VRA as well as 52 USC 10101.

Ill repeat the part you ignore -

qualified under State law to vote in such election

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: JIMC5499


As far as I know, the only issue with the November 2022 election is whether or not misdated and undated ballots will be counted. The PA SOS announced that she is encouraging each county to do the right thing, to NOT violate the Voting Rights Act and to count all legitimate voters' ballots.

Accepting the mail in ballots DOES violate the VRA as has been explained to you several times now. The VRA defers to state election law and in PA the ballots / envelopes must be filled out completely.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Again, the only issue at hand is whether or not it's constitutional to count misdated and/or undated return envelope ballots.

As of today, the question is unresolved, and heading to court again.

Since it seems to me that the Supreme Court is poised to overturn the Voting Rights Act, I predict SCOTUS will rule those ballots can be rejected if state law says they can, overruling the Voting Rights Act.

No its been resolved by the US Supreme Court when they ordered PA NOT to accept undated mail in ballots.

a reply to: Xcathdra

No its been resolved by the US Supreme Court when they ordered PA NOT to accept undated mail in ballots.

LOL

Show me that order! Please!

I'll wait!

LOL

The VRA defers to state election law and in PA the ballots

No it doesn't.
It clearly says:

“No person acting under color of law shall . . . deny the right of any individual to vote in any election because of an error or omission on any record or paper related to any application, registration, or other act requisite to voting, if such error or omission is not material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election.”
§10101(a)(2)(B).

PA State election law REQUIRES info on the ballot and the envelopes to be completely filled out, otherwise their vote does not count.

The date has nothing to do with determining the voters' eligibility. It's "immaterial".

a reply to: Sookiechacha

It is not about voter eligibility it is about if the vote is legal. These are 2 different things that many Progressives like to roll into one.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
LOL

Show me that order! Please!

I'll wait!

LOL

Learn how our Judicial system works.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
No it doesn't.
It clearly says:
“No person acting under color of law shall . . . deny the right of any individual to vote in any election because of an error or omission on any record or paper related to any application, registration, or other act requisite to voting, if such error or omission is not material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election.” §10101(a)(2)(B).

PA State Law requires the Mail in Ballot, and envelopes to be filled out completely or the vote wont count. Under State Law if its not correctly filled out the ballots wont be accepted.

Also, for the 100th time - "Acting under Color of Law" specifically means Law Enforcement. It has been pointed out to you that PA law, by preventing the counting of ballots, is based on completely filing out the required info. A persons ballot thats not counted is rejected solely based on not filling out the required info. NOT one single person has had their ballot invalidated because of the persons race.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
The date has nothing to do with determining the voters' eligibility. It's "immaterial".

PA election law says otherwise.


Constantly bitching in circles wont change the PA law. You need to take your issue to the PA legislature to change the PA Election Law and well as the PA Constitution.