U.S. Supreme Court Rules Mailed-In Ballots Without a Postmark Date Can NOT Be Counted.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Already they are starting it....🐸


BREAKING: Acting PA Secretary of State warns of ‘delays’ in counting midterm votes

Delays in counting the vote in PA is what allowed Bidens steal to occur and again it was because of people ignoring PA election law and the PA Constitution. 2022 midterm elections, imo, are nothing but a test run for new methods of voter fraud.

There should be no delay in counting ballots according to PA election law.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
Now we get the curve ball. Anybody want to see how the Democrats are going to get around the United States Supreme Court?

Democrats will just ignore it, as the Democrat party is doing in PA.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

RE Ballot Curing -

Ballot curing chaos looms over Pennsylvania midterms

A court decision finding no explicit right in Pennsylvania to “cure” absentee ballots rejected due to minor paperwork mistakes, along with state Republicans’ aggressive attempts to roll back widespread use of mail-in ballots, is setting the stage for chaos in this November’s midterm elections.

click link for entire article.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
You're just wrong.

In a separate case, the state Supreme Court granted a request by the Republican National Committee, the state party and several voters who sued several days ago, asking it to clarify the issue of undated ballot envelopes.

And...

The justices in an unsigned order on Friday set out a compressed time schedule for the parties to file briefs early next week on whether the Republican groups and voters have legal standing to bring the case, whether the envelope dates are mandatory under state law and if so, if that would violate provisions of the U.S. Civil Rights Act of 1964.

www.usnews.com...

Well, im not but whatever you need to tell yourself. You have been provided with all the laws, legalities, explanations and you refuse to accept fact, so that is on you.

When scotus dismissed the 3rds ruling PA law reverted back to before the bench legislation. As I said you need to learn how the legal system works.

Again it does not violate the VRA however it does violate PA state election law and the PA Constitution (which still has not been changed) and should it go to Scotus they will rule the same way... again.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The state of Pennsylvania election fraud was so critical to Biden's planned victory, Secretary of State Boockvar ignored a direct order from Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito.

The order from Alito: www.pbs.org...

The ballots that "arrived" late were counted, despite his order. Because Justices aren't used to being defied, the PA Secretary of State got away with it. A few months later Kathy Boockvar suddenly resigned. (I hope "karma" is making her pay dearly.)

a reply to: Xcathdra

Well, im not but whatever you need to tell yourself.

You are wrong.
We'll revisit this when it goes back to the courts, next week.

The justices in an unsigned order on Friday set out a compressed time schedule for the parties to file briefs early next week on whether the Republican groups and voters have legal standing to bring the case, whether the envelope dates are mandatory under state law and if so, if that would violate provisions of the U.S. Civil Rights Act of 1964.

a reply to: carewemust

She was eventually asked to resign by the Governor and from the conversations ive heard on the topic the resignation request was along the lines of you intentionally ignored a Supreme Court ruling and to avoid prosecution you need to resign now. Chapman, the current acting PA Sec State is following the same bulls**t.

The PA Supreme Court just accepted the Republicans case asking the PA Supreme Court to essentially force the Sec State and Governor to accept the US Supreme Courts ruling that requires ballots that are not filled out correctly / completely to not be counted. I guess we will see just how corrupt the Democrats are in PA. The PA Supreme Court consists of 5 justices - 2 are Republican and 3 are Democrats. PA Supreme Court voted 3-2 to accept mail in ballots that violate state election law. The fact they are being forced to clean up a mess they and other activists judges created is funny imo.

Now to see if they jump ship or go down with the ship. My guess is they will go down with the ship.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
You are wrong.
We'll revisit this when it goes back to the courts, next week.

Well, i'm not but again whatever you have to tell yourself.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
The justices in an unsigned order on Friday set out a compressed time schedule for the parties to file briefs early next week on whether the Republican groups and voters have legal standing to bring the case, whether the envelope dates are mandatory under state law and if so, if that would violate provisions of the U.S. Civil Rights Act of 1964.

They have standing to bring the case and state law does NOT violate the VRA, as you already had it pointed out to you in the 3rd circuits review by a Scotus Justice.

They are not being denied the right to vote. Their vote is not countable because it doesnt comply with the requirements / rules / law on mail in voting, just like they did in 2020.

Depending the the outcome im sure Scotus will be involved, again.

a reply to: Xcathdra

They have standing to bring the case and state law does NOT violate the VRA, as you already had it pointed out to you in the 3rd circuits review by a Scotus Justice.

Damn! Dude! You're still wrong, AGAIN!

You keep saying the state law doesn't violate the Voting Rights Act.

The ACLU complained that rejecting those ballots, according to state law, DOES violate the Voting Rights Act. The 3rd Circuit Court agreed, and SCOTUS upheld that ruling in June.

The 3rd Circuit ruled in Ritter's case that under a provision of the federal Civil Rights Act, the failure to include the date on a mail-in ballot is "immaterial" to whether the ballot was valid and therefore should be counted. The provision in question is aimed at protecting the right to vote.

The Court ruled that the state law that orders the rejection of misdated/undated ballots violated the Voting Rights Act, and that they have to count those ballots.

You say they have standing to sue. Maybe they do, but that is yet to be determined. They have to argue that before the court, who will decide that, not you!

Depending the the outcome im sure Scotus will be involved, again.

SCOTUS has NOT ordered Pennsylvania not to count those ballots, so yeah....That's what I said.

We are right back at square one. There is no precedent, and SCOTUS will have to make an actual ruling on the state law verses the Voting Rights Act.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

The ACLU is anything but fair or beliveable these days.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I am saying that because they are also misinterpreting the law as well. The Supreme Court did not side with the ACLU and we know this because they shot downs the 3rd circuit ruling, which reverted PA election law back to its original intent - Ballots / Envelopes MUST be filled out correctly or the votes are not counted. The people are not being denied the ability to vote. There vote is not legally accepted because they did not follow the law that requires specific info - signature and date for envelopes. The envelopes are a part of the ballot process and must be kept to act as verification.


As for what the state courts and the appeals court ruled - those rulings were tossed by the US Supreme Court, reverting PA election law back to its original state - Ballots / envelopes must contain the required info or the vote can not be counted. As was pointed out by Scotus the 3rd circuit failed to meet 2 of 5 elements that are required to be in violation of the VRA.

Element #2 - When a mail-in ballot is not counted because it was not filled out correctly, the voter is not denied “the right to vote.” Rather, that individual’s vote is not counted because he or she did not follow the rules for casting a ballot. “Casting a vote, whether by following the directions for using a voting machine or completing a paper ballot, requires compliance with certain rules.” Brnovich v. Democratic National Committee, 594 U. S. ___, ___ (2021)
(slip op., at 16).


Element 5 weighs even more heavily against the Third Circuit’s interpretation. This element requires that the error or omission be “material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election.” There is no reason why the requirements that must be met in order to register (and thus be “qualified”) to vote
should be the same as the requirements that must be met in order to cast a ballot that will be counted. Indeed, it would be silly to think otherwise. Think of the previously mentioned hypothetical voters whose votes were not counted because they did not follow the rules for casting a vote. None of the rules they violated—rules setting the date of an election, the location of the voter’s assigned polling place, the address to which a mail-in ballot must be sent—has anything to do with the requirements that must be met in order to establish eligibility to vote, and it would be absurd to judge the validity of voting rules based on whether they are material to eligibility.

Reference the "Materiality" of the date on envelopes -

But §10101(a)(2)(B) does not address that issue. It applies only to errors or omissions that are not material to the question whether a person is qualified to vote. It leaves it to the States to decide which voting rules should be mandatory.

Again, please learn how our legal system works. When they dismissed / reverted / mooted / whatever term you want to use, it also tossed the lower court rulings. It reverted PA law back to signatures / date required on mail in ballots or they can not be counted.

You dont understand how our legal system works and that is your problem (you can lead a horse to water as the saying goes).. But you are once again going in circles with you argument and it still doesnt change the facts. Trying to use rulings that were tossed also doesnt help your position.


Scotus did in fact toss the 3rd circuit ruling, and by extension all the other rulings of all courts that "touched" the case. Which means the 3rd Federal appeals circuit ruling, the PA Supreme Court ruling, the PA appeals court ruling and the PA "trial" court ruling. The action reverted PA election law to its original state - Ballots / Envelopes must contain the required info on the vote is considered illegal and invalid.

Also element #4 is now a concern because of the language used in the law -

In light of what I have written about elements 2 and 5, it is unlikely that element 4 must be addressed, but for the sake of completeness, I will add that the language of that provision must be given a strained meaning in order to make it applicable to the validity of a rule about filling out a mail-in ballot. Element 4 demands that a “record or paper” must be “related to [an] application, registration, or other act requisite to voting.” 52 U. S. C. §10101(a)(2)(B).

A mail-in ballot is a “record or paper,” and it does not appear to be related in any direct sense to any “application” or “registration,” so the question is whether it is “related to” some “other act requisite to voting.” But the casting of a ballot constitutes the act of voting. Indeed, the statute specifies that “the word ‘vote’ includes all action necessary to make a vote effective including . . . casting a ballot, and having such ballot counted.” §10101(e). It is therefore awkward to describe the act of voting as “requisite to the act of voting.”

I will point out, again, that the ballots AND envelopes, under PA election law, are official records (affidavits). Hence the reason they are required to contain certain info. Also, again, the laws in question RE: VRA DEFERS to the State to determine the rules for how a ballot is legal and countable.

Additional resources -
* - Cornell Law - DAVID RITTER v. LINDA MIGLIORI, et al.
on application for stay [June 9, 2022]

* - Supreme Court Vacates 3rd Circuit Ruling On Undated Mail Ballots

The U.S. Supreme Court has thrown out a lower court’s ruling that had allowed the counting of undated mail-in ballots in a Pennsylvania race.

The justices vacated the ruling by the Philadelphia-based 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals as requested by David Ritter, who lost his 2021 bid for a spot on the Lehigh County Court of Common Pleas by five votes after 257 absentee ballots without date notations were counted.

The action means that the ruling cannot be used a precedent in any of the three states covered by the 3rd Circuit – Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Delaware – to allow the counting of ballots with errors such as a voter omitting the date on the return envelope. The vacated ruling does not change the outcome of the race.

The ruling involves a case about just 257 undated mail ballots in last year’s November election. Its impact will be much more considerable.

This is the precedent Ritter was trying to stop -

Ritter told the Supreme Court that unless the 3rd Circuit ruling was wiped off the books, it would allow undated mail-in ballots to be counted in future elections in Pennsylvania and would “threaten to invalidate countless regulations of mail-in voting” nationwide. Pennsylvania Republican legislators echoed Ritter’s warning.

It would have also created a precedent that affected not only PA. but also in Delaware and New Jersey. An appeals court ruling can also be cited by other appeals circuit as a precedent and applied in the states in those other Federal appeals circuits. Leaving the 3rds ruling in place would have been a disaster.

So using your comment we will see how the courts handle it although I think I know how its going to go..

Also you never bothered to answer the questions I asked you??

The onus should be on each individual ballot to prove it was cast by a Legal American Citizen registered to Vote

If that cannot be proven than that ballot should not count.

It's called Election Integrity - Just because there's a a piece of paper calling itself a ballot doesn't mean it is valid.

Only LEGALLY Cast Votes by Legal US Citizens, on trackable, verifiable ballots should be counted period.

a reply to: MetalThunder

100% agree

a reply to: MetalThunder

In Washington State, writing your vote on a NAPKIN at the bar or restaurant is legal.

mynorthwest.com...

I think Illinois and Nevada are close being "universal access" states, as well.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I am saying that because they are also misinterpreting the law as well. The Supreme Court did not side with the ACLU and we know this because they shot downs the 3rd circuit ruling

They didn't "shoot down" the ruling. They sided with the 3rd Circuit Court when they upheld the ruling in June, 2022.

Court allows Pennsylvania officials to count ballots that arrived in undated envelopes

They stopped the ruling from becoming precedent.

I will point out, again.....

Blah, blah. blah.

You said the SCOTUS set a precedent that those ballots couldn't be counted, when they "reversed" vacated the 3rd Circuit Courts ruling. Now you're saying the case ruling can't be used as precedent.
You said that SCOTUS ordered Pennsylvania NOT to count said ballots. They never said any such thing.
You said that nobody, but me, brought up the Voting RIghts Act. The whole issue at hand revolves around the Voting RIghts Act.

Again...
SCOTUS did not forbid the counting of those ballots.
SCOTUS did not set a precedent when they vacated the ruling and ordered the case moot.
The issue revolves around whether state law violates the Voting Rights Acts, and if so, is the VRA (un)constitutional.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
They didn't "shoot down" the ruling. They sided with the 3rd Circuit Court when they upheld the ruling in June, 2022.

Court allows Pennsylvania officials to count ballots that arrived in undated envelopes

and Scotus shot it down on Oct 11th, which is the most recent legal action taken, which supersedes the June ruling.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
They stopped the ruling from becoming precedent.

Yup so PA, Delaware and New Jersey couldn't use it to accept illegal mail in ballot.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

Blah blah blalh.... Learn how our legal system works.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Again...
SCOTUS did not forbid the counting of those ballots.

They did when the dismissed the ruling by the 3rd circuit on Oct 11th. When they did that the PA election law reverted back to pre-rulings by all courts meaning ALL mail in ballots and envelopes have to be signed / dated to be lawful and count.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
SCOTUS did not set a precedent when they vacated the ruling and ordered the case moot.

Your the one that keeps throwing precedent around. All I did was explain why it was requested and why Scotus shot it down and what the concern with precedent was. I also pointed out that if Scotus allowed the 3rd circuit ruling to stand, it could be used as precedent in other appeals circuits. You up to speed yet?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
The issue revolves around whether state law violates the Voting Rights Acts, and if so, is the VRA (un)constitutional.

It doesnt violate the VRA because no one is losing their right to vote / denied the ability to vote. As I have said the VRA defers to individual state law on whats mandatory for a ballot / mail in ballot to be counted.

Here is the article from OCT 11th when Scotus dismissed / reversed / mooted / shot down / quashed the ruling .
* - Supreme Court Vacates 3rd Circuit Ruling On Undated Mail Ballots

The October 11th ruling by Scotus was 7-2.

As I said we shall see how the PA Supreme Court deals with the mess they created and depending on what they do I can see Scotus getting involved.. again.


Anything else I can explain to you to help you understand exactly what's going on and why? I dont mind doing it but it incumbent on you to actually read the info, actually understand what you read, and to ask question when you dont understand something.

Have a good day.

a reply to: Xcathdra

and Scotus shot it down on Oct 11th, which is the most recent legal action taken, which supersedes the June ruling.

They did NOT rule that the ballots couldn't be counted. They did NOT order Pennsylvania to reject those ballots.

Yup so PA, Delaware and New Jersey couldn't use it to accept illegal mail in ballot.

SCOTUS did not rule such ballots "illegal" nor did they forbid those states from accepting those ballots.

They did when the dismissed the ruling by the 3rd circuit on Oct 11th.

Nope.

When they did that the PA election law reverted back to pre-rulings by all courts meaning ALL mail in ballots and envelopes have to be signed / dated to be lawful and count.

Nope.
There are no pre-rulings other than the case at hand.

As I said we shall see how the PA Supreme Court deals with the mess they created and depending on what they do I can see Scotus getting involved.. again.

Don't SCOTUS justices and State Supreme Court Justices read the headlines?!!
Don't they know they already ruled on this??!! They already forbid said states from counting said ballots??!!
Why did The Court give both parties until Monday and Tuesday, respectively, next week to make their case.

Why are they hearing the GOP complaint again?! I guess they haven't consulted with you on the what they already did and the "mess they made"!

/sarc

One vote per SSN. If you are dead you are removed.

In 2017 a certain president tried to get all voting records from all states and there was a freak out!!!! Why? Because if there was a Federal List it would be available from FOIA. Then no one could cheat.

Anyone who believes votes cannot be changed electronically is simply...ignorant.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Seek help. You need it. Good luck.

a reply to: JIMC5499

Nothing I said is incorrect.

This isn't about USPS postmarks.
SCOTUS never ruled that said ballots can't be counted.
There is [now] no precedent set for this issue.
The issue hinges on the Voting Rights Act and its conflict with state law.
This issue isn't resolved and is still in the courts.