U.S. Supreme Court Rules Mailed-In Ballots Without a Postmark Date Can NOT Be Counted.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
You said that counting the ballots of folks who either wrote the wrong date, like their birthday, or wrote the wrong year, or failed to write a date at all was a violation of the Pennsylvania Constitution. Nobody has made that claim but you, like when the 3rd Circuit Court ruled that they could be counted, and you have not proven that claim.

Both envelopes have to be filled out as required to be accepted. The PA Constitution still restricts mail in ballots to illness or physically disabled. Until the Constitution is changed everyone who tried doing the no excuse vote by mail are invalid and cannot be accepted / counted. Again the PA constitution said that when it spelled out who qualifies for vote by mail.

People who filled out but omitted required information on the return envelopes can not have their vote counted as it violates PA state law.

See my posts above for further info as I am not going to go in circles with you.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
You suggested that the Pennsylvania Secretary of State only counted those 250 ballots to secure a win for Democrats. I noted that that's what Trump was accused of doing when he was begging Georgia's Secretary of State to find some 11,771 votes. You haven't debunked that analogy either.

The PA SecState accepted invalid mail in ballots that PA state law said were invalid because they were not filled out correctly. By illegally accepting those ballots the Democrat won by 5 votes. According to PA state law the Democrat should have lost.

Secondly Trump did not do the Georgia bull# you are claiming. Its been debunked by the very media outlet who reported Trump asked the GA SecState to find votes. That NEVER occurred. The Washington Compost was the outlet who lied about Trumps conversation and admitted they selectively edited the phone call to make it sound like was saying that when he didnt. The Washington Compost retracted the article and admitted they made it up.

So no, what occurred in PA was election fraud. There was nothing illegal with Trumps conversation with the GA SecState. You can wish it to be true all you want but its not. I thought you were a rational thinker but I didnt realise you have a severe case of TDS.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Still, I can't see how not counting the ballots of folks who erred in their dating documentation on their return envelope will prevent voter fraud at all. But you go ahead and do your happy dance to celebrate how distracted or forgetful voters' ballots will be rejected!

What part of affidavit do you not understand? PA election law spells out whats required for the mail in ballots to be officially accepted and countable. If the people are so howl at the moon lazy ass stupid and cant sign or date the envelopes as required then thats on them.

When a voter fills out the forms correctly the correct assumption is to accept the ballots as legitimate. If a person cant fill the forms out correctly one has to wonder why.

Also the Governor nor the SecState of PA has any authority to make changes to PA election law on their own. The 3rd circuit erred when they ignored PA election law and the State Constitution.

If you dont think people should have their ballots invalidated for not filling the forms out correctly, it is a perfectly valid opinion. The next step would be to legally change PA election law and the state constitution to account for that. Until the state legislature makes the changes incorrectly filled out forms / ballots / envelopes are invalid and cannot be accepted as legal votes.

The US Supreme Court accepted a case dealing with the independent state legislature theory. The US Constitution gives the state legislature, and only the state legislature, the sole authority to regulate Federal elections. Its along the same lines as impeachment of Federal officials (namely judges). Over the years Federal judges that were impeached tried every possible method to get the impeachment stopped and reinstated as judges. Scotus ruled that the Constitution gives sole authority of impeachment to Congress alone. Since its that specific the President nor Scotus has no authority to wade into that issue and scotus has explained that time and again.

The Independent State Legislature Theory, imo, will be resolved along the same lines as impeachment and gerrymandering. Which is to say once the state legislature sets election laws the executive and judicial branches can no longer legislate from the bench.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Both envelopes have to be filled out as required to be accepted. The PA Constitution still restricts mail in ballots to illness or physically disabled. Until the Constitution is changed everyone who tried doing the no excuse vote by mail are invalid and cannot be accepted / counted. Again the PA constitution said that when it spelled out who qualifies for vote by mail.

Moving the goal posts now, are we. Those ballots weren't questioned because the voters didn't have a valid excuse for voting by mail.

When a voter fills out the forms correctly the correct assumption is to accept the ballots as legitimate. If a person cant fill the forms out correctly one has to wonder why.

No, one doesn't have to wonder why. The Pennsylvania Constitution is clear on who is eligible to vote and writing the correct date on the return envelope isn't a factor. Disqualifying a voter's ballot for that does violate the state's constitution.

Secondly Trump did not do the Georgia bull# you are claiming.

LOL...Yes, he did. The recording says it all.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Your California Laws don't Trump the Pennsylvania Laws 😀

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Technically the State of Pennsylvania sending out unrequested mail in ballots violates the State Constitution. Legally every ballot that cannot be shown to have gone through the request process can be invalidated.
The Wolf Administration did this on their own in the face of opposition by the Legislature. Wolf claimed that the COVID emergency gave him the authority to do this, but, that authority hasn't faced a Court yet.

Remove those ballots from the count and see where it winds up? Oh wait you can't because the Governor and the Secretary of State ruled that the inner envelopes with dates and signatures could be destroyed instead of being kept with the ballot as required by Law.

Being that this is an election issue and current members of the State Supreme Court and lower Courts were on the 2020 ballot this is a matter to be decided in Federal Court.

a reply to: JIMC5499

Technically the State of Pennsylvania sending out unrequested mail in ballots violates the State Constitution. Legally every ballot that cannot be shown to have gone through the request process can be invalidated.

That's a different issue, isn't it? This thread is about SCOTUS ruling that the 3rd Circuit Court ruling, that ballots whose return envelopes omit or mistake the date are countable, is "MOOT". It's not about whether or not mail in ballot voting was constitutional. That's a different issue altogether.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Not really.

Its funny I was told while deployed that my absentee vote wouldnt be counted because of no post mark, it wasnt done because it was coming from an area of conflict for opsec reasons.

Nobody cared, now that its being applied to more than just military people are in a tizzy.

Thats actually kind of amusing to me and kind of shows what I have always known, folks will virtue signal non-stop but let it possibly impact them or the people they care about and Oh My GARD VOTER SUPPRESSION.

Get over it, if you dont have a secure election you dont have a government you have a banana republic.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Moving the goal posts now, are we. Those ballots weren't questioned because the voters didn't have a valid excuse for voting by mail.

They were invalid because they didnt correctly fill out the form as required.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
No, one doesn't have to wonder why. The Pennsylvania Constitution is clear on who is eligible to vote and writing the correct date on the return envelope isn't a factor. Disqualifying a voter's ballot for that does violate the state's constitution.

Actually it does not violate the state constitution although no excuse vote by mail does. I provided you with a link to PA SecState website on voting by mail. There are warning that if you dont fill out the form completely / correctly the vote will not count.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
LOL...Yes, he did. The recording says it all.

Look kids, Big Ben, Parliament -

you really need to read and learn and stop showing off your TDS and get off the debunked circular argument your attempting.

The Post publishes correction on Trump call with Georgia investigator

In both cases, the quotes were wrong, as The Post has acknowledged in a correction to the story. “Trump did not tell the investigator to ‘find the fraud’ or say she would be ‘a national hero’ if she did so. Instead, Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find ‘dishonesty’ there. He also told her that she had ‘the most important job in the country right now,’” reads the correction, in part.

The fact your still trying to push the debunked lie further demonstrates how far the left will go to cheat in order to win an election and how gullible rank and file Democrats truly are. You condone election fraud, which again goes back to why if someone doesnt fill out the forms correctly their ballot is not and can not be counted.

a reply to: Sookiechacha


The 3rd Federal Appeals circuit erred by ignoring PA state law and the PA constitution and Scotus correctly struck down the 3rd circuit ruling as well as PA state trial courts, PA state appeals court and the PA Supreme Court. Ironically enough the current PA SecState has said she is ignoring the Scotus ruling just like her predecessor did for 2020 and claiming Scotus ruling does not impact state court rulings.

Just so you are up to speed a Scotus ruling does impact the state courts. So not only is the PA SecState ignoring PA state law, the PA Constitution she is also violating the Federal Constitution.

You should read it.
* - US Constitution Article III - Judicial Branch
* - US Constitution complete

The days of legislating from the bench seem to be coming to an end.

a reply to: Xcathdra

They were invalid because they didnt correctly fill out the form as required.

The Pennsylvania State Constitution doesn't list failure to date a return envelope as grounds to disqualify a person from voting. PERIOD!

The Post publishes correction on Trump call with Georgia investigator

You really need to stop invoking the Washington Post to debunk what Trump actually did and said in that 1 hour, plus, phone call with Raffensperger. Trump is being investigated by the Georgia DA for election interference. That's a fact.
news.yahoo.com...

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
The Pennsylvania State Constitution doesn't list failure to date a return envelope as grounds to disqualify a person from voting. PERIOD!

PA state law does - PERIOD!


From a post you intentionally ignored. What part of it do you not understand -
"If you do not complete the declaration on the return envelope your ballot will not be counted."

Voting by mail-in or absentee ballot is safe, secure, and easy. (Direct from the PA Secretary of State)

Down the page is the section for "How do I vote and return my mail-in or absentee ballot?".

Step 2
Seal your ballot in the inner secrecy envelope that indicates "official election ballot." Do not make any marks on the inner secrecy envelope.
Your ballot must be enclosed and sealed in the inner secrecy envelope that indicates "official election ballot" or it will not be counted.


Step 3
Seal the inner secrecy envelope in the pre-addressed outer return envelope. Complete the voter’s declaration on the outside of the outer return envelope.
If you do not complete the declaration on the return envelope your ballot will not be counted.


Towards the bottom of the page -
Why are there two envelopes with my mail-in ballot?

The smaller secrecy envelope is intended to protect the anonymity of your vote. After you fill out your ballot, you must place it in the secrecy envelope and seal it.

Do not make any marks on this envelope. If you fail to place and seal your ballot in this envelope or if you make marks on this envelope, your ballot will not be counted.

The second, larger envelope is the mailing and declaration envelope. You must use it, even if you are dropping your ballot off at a drop box. Place your secrecy envelope (with your ballot inside) into the mailing and declaration envelope. You must seal it and sign and date the declaration before you can return your ballot.

Both of these envelopes must be used in order for your vote to count.

KEY word - BOTH

not one envelope, but BOTH. Without either the vote will not count.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
You really need to stop invoking the Washington Post to debunk what Trump actually did and said in that 1 hour, plus, phone call with Raffensperger. Trump is being investigated by the Georgia DA for election interference. That's a fact.
news.yahoo.com...

and its also a fact that the Washington Compost, who is responsible for the story, lied and issued a retraction. They admitted the editing the phone call. Not sure why you are unable to accept that fact. I assume its your TDS.

Also, the debunked article you posted in from Feb 2021 (and posted by Rachel Maddow but thats another thread entirely). The Washington Compost retracted their lie in March 2021.

Thats how we know it was debunked.

The Washington Compost lied, they edited the phone call. Sine the Washington Compost is the media outlet that started the phone call lie, and then retracted the article saying they edited the call, I will continue to use the Washington Compost to prove you wrong. ALL other media outlet stories on that topic are predicated on the Washington Composts article. You linking to the edited phone call doesnt work as it doesnt prove anything but TDS.

Since you have thoroughly been debunked what else can I prove you wrong on?

I can think of one way that would make mail in ballots, save for absentee, unnecessary.

A Federal holiday that extends over call it a three, maybe five day period. Within that period you vote at your local polling place. If in that period of time, you can't find the time to vote, well, too bad.

Mail in ballots are far too easy to "misplace" or suddenly "find".

Vote in person, or don't vote. ID required.

a reply to: seagull

In addition to the Holiday we should look at Australia and there election laws. Voting is a requirement in AUS otherwise its a criminal offense.

As for mail in ballots being found it is one of the reasons a person has to include the date on their forms.

Also Elections should last 1 day. Stopping the vote counting because more ballots were found is a scam. Especially when voters are illegally given an extra 3-15 days after the day of the election.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Voting is a requirement in AUS otherwise its a criminal offense.

I did not know that!!

Why?

Huh...not sure how that'd go over here, but interesting thought, nonetheless.

a reply to: seagull

Its an election law that dates back to the early 1900's.

Australian Electoral Commission - Compulsory voting in Australia

The reasons are in the link above.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

So what's next for your solution ?

Maybe go back to voice votes at townhall meetings in every small Precinct and let people call in ?🤣

a reply to: Xcathdra

From a post you intentionally ignored. What part of it do you not understand -
"If you do not complete the declaration on the return envelope your ballot will not be counted."

“No person acting under color of law shall . . . deny the right of any individual to vote in any election because of an error or omission on any record or paper related to any application, registration, or other act requisite to voting, if such error or omission is not material in determining whether such individual is qualified under State law to vote in such election.”
§10101(a)(2)(B).

www.law.cornell.edu...#:~:text=No%20person%2C%20whether%20acting%20under%20color%20of%20law,purpose%20of%20selecting%20or%20 electing%20any%20such%20candidate.

The 3rd Circuit Court ruled, saying the date was "immaterial".

“State law requires voters to sign and date the outside mailing envelope when they return their mail ballots, and state courts have held that the requirement means undated ballots must be rejected. But throwing out those votes violates the federal Civil Rights Act, the ACLU argued, because the date isn’t actually used in determining the legitimacy of a vote.

. . .

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit agreed Friday, declaring the date requirement in state law is immaterial under the Civil Rights Act — meaning it can’t be used as a reason to reject ballots.”

electionlawblog.org...

SCOTUS majority vacated the stay issued by Alito in June. www.abajournal.com... SCOTUS ruled the whole case "MOOT", so as not bind future courts. in October. www.scotusblog.com...

Now, we're right back at square one. There is no court precedent on the matter, and if undated or misdated return envelope ballots are counted, or not counted, it will go right back to court, again.

a reply to: xuenchen

We could always try the Iraq method. When a person votes the last thing they do is dip there thumb into ink and then press their thumb onto the Ballot.

I a not sure they are still using the method but it makes sense to me. ID's can be fraudulent, and so can thumbprints however its a whole lot harder to fake a thumbprint.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
The 3rd Circuit Court ruled, saying the date was "immaterial".

and the ruling violated PA state law and the PA constitution (no excuse vote by mail).

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Now, we're right back at square one. There is no court precedent on the matter, and if undated or misdated return envelope ballots are counted, it will go right back to court, again.

The US Supreme Court is the highest court in the land and all other courts are inferior. Even Federal appeals circuits and State Supreme Courts. The precedent was just set by Scotus. A state must follow its election laws and only the State Legislature can make changes. As I was saying before the Scotus ruling sets the stage for the independent state legislature theory which they are taking up this term.

The days of a Governor thinking they can act like Caligula with the backing of the courts is ending. If people want their vote to count fill the forms out correctly, as state law requires - it really is that simple.