Astrazeneca: Vaccine death inadequate payout

originally posted by: nonspecific
Back tracking much?

You didn't put them both up on purpose you put the first one up thinking it applied to COVID vaccines.

Shoddy research there my good man.

There's no rush here, take your time and get it right rather than rushing it and making a total arse of yourself.

And if you do make a mistake then have the good grace to admit it, it improves your credibility if you are seen to be willing to admit your mistakes.


a reply to: Asmodeus3

No I did put them on purpose.
This isn't correct.

The table covers publication up to November 2020
There were no Covid vaccines back then.

I am afraid you are mistaken again resulting in the usual attacks. Post of yours have been reported as you can't stay away from personal attacks.

So to clarify this if I may?

You claimed that the US had a system that paid out more than the UK did.

To prove this you provided 2 links.

The first link was to something that does not apply to covid 19 related vaccine injury or death at all.

The second linked to a BMJ article that said the system that does apply to Covid 19 vaccine death/injury is not fit for purpose and yet to pay-out on a single case.

Tell me again why this proves the US system is better as I must have missed something along the way.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: nonspecific
Back tracking much?

You didn't put them both up on purpose you put the first one up thinking it applied to COVID vaccines.

Shoddy research there my good man.

There's no rush here, take your time and get it right rather than rushing it and making a total arse of yourself.

And if you do make a mistake then have the good grace to admit it, it improves your credibility if you are seen to be willing to admit your mistakes.


a reply to: Asmodeus3

No I did put them on purpose.
This isn't correct.

The table covers publication up to November 2020
There were no Covid vaccines back then.

I am afraid you are mistaken again resulting in the usual attacks. Post of yours have been reported as you can't stay away from personal attacks.

originally posted by: nonspecific
So to clarify this if I may?

You claimed that the US had a system that paid out more than the UK did.

To prove this you provided 2 links.

The first link was to something that does not apply to covid 19 related vaccine injury or death at all.

The second linked to a BMJ article that said the system that does apply to Covid 19 vaccine death/injury is not fit for purpose and yet to pay-out on a single case.

Tell me again why this proves the US system is better as I must have missed something along the way.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: nonspecific
Back tracking much?

You didn't put them both up on purpose you put the first one up thinking it applied to COVID vaccines.

Shoddy research there my good man.

There's no rush here, take your time and get it right rather than rushing it and making a total arse of yourself.

And if you do make a mistake then have the good grace to admit it, it improves your credibility if you are seen to be willing to admit your mistakes.


a reply to: Asmodeus3

No I did put them on purpose.
This isn't correct.

The table covers publication up to November 2020
There were no Covid vaccines back then.

I am afraid you are mistaken again resulting in the usual attacks. Post of yours have been reported as you can't stay away from personal attacks.

The US system applies to most vaccines
The UK system applies to all vaccines as far as as I know.

Comparing these two it seems clearly that the average award for vaccine injuries is much higher in the US.

COVID-19 is treated differently there. But you still don't know how much one will get in the US having being seriously injured or died from the Covid-19 vaccine.

You are making the mistake to discuss about Covid only. The scheme in the UK is for all vaccines and was established long time ago. The analogous scheme in the US was established again long time ago and applies to most vaccines.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

We are talking about covid vaccines though?

Why have you suddenly altered the conversation if not to save face after making an obvious blunder?

Just admit you made a mistake and move forward, there's no shame in it. happens to all of us at some point as no ones infallable.

originally posted by: nonspecific
So to clarify this if I may?

You claimed that the US had a system that paid out more than the UK did.

To prove this you provided 2 links.

The first link was to something that does not apply to covid 19 related vaccine injury or death at all.

The second linked to a BMJ article that said the system that does apply to Covid 19 vaccine death/injury is not fit for purpose and yet to pay-out on a single case.

Tell me again why this proves the US system is better as I must have missed something along the way.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: nonspecific
Back tracking much?

You didn't put them both up on purpose you put the first one up thinking it applied to COVID vaccines.

Shoddy research there my good man.

There's no rush here, take your time and get it right rather than rushing it and making a total arse of yourself.

And if you do make a mistake then have the good grace to admit it, it improves your credibility if you are seen to be willing to admit your mistakes.


a reply to: Asmodeus3

No I did put them on purpose.
This isn't correct.

The table covers publication up to November 2020
There were no Covid vaccines back then.

I am afraid you are mistaken again resulting in the usual attacks. Post of yours have been reported as you can't stay away from personal attacks.

And mathematically

In the UK the maximum you get is £120,000
In the US the average you get is $456,113.95

COVID-19 claims get £120,000 for death in the UK
And we are to see how much one will get in the US

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Asmodeus3

We are talking about covid vaccines though?

Why have you suddenly altered the conversation if not to save face after making an obvious blunder?

Just admit you made a mistake and move forward, there's no shame in it. happens to all of us at some point as no ones infallable.

No we are not talking about the Covid vaccines particularly but for the current schemes that exist in the UK and US. You are mistaken I am afraid. My argument from the beginning was that £120,000 is too low for a vaccine death whichever this vaccine is.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

So by your last posting you now agree that your earlier claim that the pay-out for covid 19 vaccine related deaths are higher in the US was not true?

Right now UK pay-outs are exactly £120,000 more on average than those in the US.

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Asmodeus3

So by your last posting you now agree that your earlier claim that the pay-out for covid 19 vaccine related deaths are higher in the US was not true?

Right now UK pay-outs are exactly £120,000 more on average than those in the US.

That isn't true.
I haven't made such claim.

My claim was that on average the US payouts are more than of the UK payout and the numbers prove this. I didn't specifically mentioned the Covid vaccine.

£120,000 for the UK
$456,113.95 for the US

A few replies back I also mentioned that we need to see how much the US will award to Covid-19 vaccine injuries. But judging from the above it will be more than the UK does.

The Covid vaccine shouldn't be treated any differently


In addition the £120,000 is too low in the UK.

I think you trying very hard to find something to hold on with a lot of anger and strawman arguments.

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Asmodeus3

So by your last posting you now agree that your earlier claim that the pay-out for covid 19 vaccine related deaths are higher in the US was not true?

Right now UK pay-outs are exactly £120,000 more on average than those in the US.

I find it fascinating that you try very hard to find something to hold on and then make a range of other claims.

You seem to be bothered a lot by this vaccine injury claim scheme and the possibility it could be higher. I wonder why?

a reply to: Asmodeus3

This is just getting silly now isn't it.

Aside from your obvious backtracking lets look at some other issues I could raise with your argument here.

You are comparing dollars to pounds, right off the bat that makes the US pay-outs for non covid vax pay-outs seem higher doesn't it.

Have you factored in the cost of living differences in this? even if you convert dollars to pounds can one dollar buy you the same as one pound?

Is the US compensation taxable? the UK payout is not taxable as its not compensation remember.

The UK payout is a flat fee, everyone is going to get £120,000. the US figure is an average so for all we know one judge gave one victim 20 million and the rest got 5k.

Only 43 percent of the US claims were granted so 57 percent of those injured or killed by a vaccine got absolutely nothing.

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Asmodeus3

This is just getting silly now isn't it.

Aside from your obvious backtracking lets look at some other issues I could raise with your argument here.

You are comparing dollars to pounds, right off the bat that makes the US pay-outs for non covid vax pay-outs seem higher doesn't it.

Have you factored in the cost of living differences in this? even if you convert dollars to pounds can one dollar buy you the same as one pound?

Is the US compensation taxable? the UK payout is not taxable as its not compensation remember.

The UK payout is a flat fee, everyone is going to get £120,000. the US figure is an average so for all we know one judge gave one victim 20 million and the rest got 5k.

Only 43 percent of the US claims were granted so 57 percent of those injured or killed by a vaccine got absolutely nothing.

There is no backtracking as I have never claimed what you said. But I have said that the £120,000 in the UK is low. The US pays more $456,113.95 on average.


Today's exchange rate: $1 = £0.89
So today's £456,113.95 is about £405,941.42
Which is much higher. Hence mathematics prove me right.

Yes the system is different in the US to reflect less serious and more serious injuries caused by vaccines. A death by a vaccine in the US can get much more than a death from the UK and/or a serious injury, not just the average figure given above.

The cost of living depends on where you are but it's almost the same in both countries. Around 0.49% lower in the UK.

www.investopedia.com...

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Asmodeus3

This is just getting silly now isn't it.

Aside from your obvious backtracking lets look at some other issues I could raise with your argument here.

You are comparing dollars to pounds, right off the bat that makes the US pay-outs for non covid vax pay-outs seem higher doesn't it.

Have you factored in the cost of living differences in this? even if you convert dollars to pounds can one dollar buy you the same as one pound?

Is the US compensation taxable? the UK payout is not taxable as its not compensation remember.

The UK payout is a flat fee, everyone is going to get £120,000. the US figure is an average so for all we know one judge gave one victim 20 million and the rest got 5k.

Only 43 percent of the US claims were granted so 57 percent of those injured or killed by a vaccine got absolutely nothing.

Nothing is silly.
Simple maths prove you wrong

£120,000 in the UK and the equivalent to £405,941.42 in the US on average.

And if you die from a vaccine in the US or become severely disabled you could get much more than the average. In the UK the scheme covers only serious injury and death. In the US the system covers less serious cases.

I find it fascinating that those who believe in this vaccine ideology are trying to put down such absurd claims and arguments.

It's really fascinating!!

Quite a bit of drift in this thread. Hope below provides some useful material.

Here's the scheme

Here's something from the Commons Library (Parliament) which may also be interesting

And here's the transcript from the recent debate (Hansard)

It is a type of benefit and not a compensation payout per se. If lawyers for the bereaved family/families think that they have a case for a legal process to extract damages from AstraZeneca for the COVID-19 vaccination, or any other pharmaceutical company for that matter, then that's for them to address.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

So is the US pay-out tax free or not?

And have you factored in the quite important fact that here in the UK we have nationalised healthcare and a decent welfare system in comparison to the US?

It still doesnt mean anything though as the number you are using has nothing to do with covid 19 vaccines and could be higher or lower because not one person has yet to get anything have they.

originally posted by: paraphi
Quite a bit of drift in this thread. Hope below provides some useful material.

Here's the scheme

Here's something from the Commons Library (Parliament) which may also be interesting

And here's the transcript from the recent debate (Hansard)

It is a type of benefit and not a compensation payout per se. If lawyers for the bereaved family/families think that they have a case for a legal process to extract damages from AstraZeneca for the COVID-19 vaccination, or any other pharmaceutical company for that matter, then that's for them to address.

Yes it's is a payout which is tax free.

The claimant can also go to the courts if they want to. We have addressed it already here earlier. The drift is due to the trolls and shills I am afraid.

www.gov.uk...

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Asmodeus3

So is the US pay-out tax free or not?

And have you factored in the quite important fact that here in the UK we have nationalised healthcare and a decent welfare system in comparison to the US?

It still doesnt mean anything though as the number you are using has nothing to do with covid 19 vaccines and could be higher or lower because not one person has yet to get anything have they.

But here we don't talk about a specific vaccine injury payout but the difference between the two different schemes. In the UK Covid-19 vaccine injury is included in the vaccine damage payment scheme. In the US injury from the Covid-19 vaccine isn't yet included or may not be included in the national vaccine injury compensation program.

However the US courts for a death from a vaccine can award much more than what the UK does. We are talking about millions of dollars.

Whether there is a NHS equivalent in the US and whether or not the healthcare system and the welfare system are better, have nothing to do with this particular topic we discuss.

Good day

a reply to: Asmodeus3

The payout is for death or disablement.

Are you really saying that its the same in the US with a private insurance based health system as it is in the UK with a nationalised one?

I'd be interested in how you explain that from a financial point of view.

And if you are saying that it can go into millions then what does that do to your average payout of £400,000?

It's going to mean a lot of payouts that fall far below £120,000 isn't it.

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Asmodeus3

The payout is for death or disablement.

Are you really saying that its the same in the US with a private insurance based health system as it is in the UK with a nationalised one?

I'd be interested in how you explain that from a financial point of view.

And if you are saying that it can go into millions then what does that do to your average payout of £400,000?

It's going to mean a lot of payouts that fall far below £120,000 isn't it.

Perhaps you don't realise the system in the UK makes awards for serious injuries and death. In the US the system makes awards for less serious injuries. Hence the average £405,941.42 with today's current exchange rates. Notice that the average payout in the US is about 3.4 times higher than the UK payout. I think numbers speak fir themselves and with the cost of living to be almost the same then you see the difference.

The private or nationalised health systems is s different off topic conversation not related to the topic.

I see you are struggling with the maths here but have a loon at the table.

Payouts below the £120,000 are for less serious damages. For death and serious injuries is much more. And hence the average.

It's simple.

If you have read my posts you would see that the payouts in the UK are for serious injury and death. In the US the payouts cover also less serious injuries.

Any repetition from this point on or drifting will be regarded as trolling and detailing and will be reported as before.

If you have anything else nee to say then do so. If not have a good day.

I'd say you better report me for trolling then as I'm still asking you the same valid questions without getting an answer and you seem to think that you set the rules here and not the site.

How can you say that the UK having a nationalised healthcare system does not have an impact on a payout for disablement?

On the UK you would receive free healthcare and also benefits because of your disablement and inability restriction to work.

In the US you would have to pay for healthcare or insurance to cover it. I don't know what if any welfare you would receive but from what I understand it would not be to the same level as here in the UK.

I'll keep an eye on my messages for the incoming telling off from the mods...


a reply to: Asmodeus3