Abortions - Why so bad?

a reply to: Grenade

I support the Roe V Wade standard that SCOTUS just reversed. So does Annee.

You have a similar standard in the UK. The only difference is, here in the USA we have a thing called "The Hyde Amendment" that forbids federal funds being used for abortion except in cases of rape, incest and the life of the woman.

So, in the UK a women can get an "on demand" abortion up to 15 weeks, or so, depending on the area, the government will pay for it. Here, women have had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get that abortion, or any abortion, and so need the extra time, in my opinion. Now, in several states, abortion is banned, usually before a woman even knows she's pregnant.

I am against forced births or refusing abortive services because a doomed fetus still has a heartbeat. So is Annee.

I live in California, a state where on demand abortion is still legal up until viability, and there are no "heart beat" laws to stop a woman from getting an emergency late term abortion, when a dire prognosis has been given. California has set up funding to aid women from other states get to California to get the medical aid they require.

California does not advocate for infanticide, nor does it offer late term abortions when the fetus is viable and can be safely delivered.

a reply to: Grenade

Well, I wish you the best with that. I've never seen anyone find any common ground on this topic. I surmise the problem one is one of "religion". Those who are Christians (and possibly some Muslims) see abortion as murder of a human being. Their religion directs them to that conclusion.

For most "Americans" (whatever that really means anymore) Politics is their religion. They worship the God of Government in the practice of their Religion of Politics and for them, Abortion is a "right" to kill the unborn; a right to "choose", if you will because they don't believe the God of Christianity but, rather, see Humankind as it's own "God", guranteed certain rights by the Almighty Government.

Now, tell me how you ever reconcile those two viewpoints?

a reply to: Annee

Then you condemn late term abortion for a viable and healthy foetus when the mothers life is not at risk?

a reply to: TonyS

Sure, i believe in God yet realise and accept that in certain circumstance abortion is necessary.

As for politics, i stopped playing that game long ago.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: TonyS

Sure, i believe in God yet realise and accept that in certain circumstance abortion is necessary.

As for politics, i stopped playing that game long ago.

LMAO, yea, politics in a country that elects the caliber of people currently in office in the US is a joke. It's the politics of the wealthy and those wishing to get wealth and power. They long since abandonned the idea of "politiking" to solve problems. Instead, they themselves ARE the problem. Pennsylvania's election of Fetterman to the Senate is proof of that. AOC, Shiela Jackson Lee who famously asked who planted the US flag on Mars. It's a #hit show of the feeble minded.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee

Then you condemn late term abortion for a viable and healthy foetus when the mothers life is not at risk?

What Sookie said.

What part of the below statement do you not understand?

"I do not do Extremism. Extremism is rare and you never know all the real details and facts. I simply will not go there."

a reply to: Annee

So you condemn it?

I don't know why you need to dance round simple questions rather than answer them directly. I'm passed caring, you seem intent on being difficult.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee

So you condemn it?

I don't know why you need to dance round simple questions rather than answer them directly. I'm passed caring, you seem intent on being difficult.

Well, you can think about why I never discuss extremism.

a reply to: Annee

More riddles.

Tired of playing games now.

I can guess but you'd deny it.

The fact you identify with the views of Sanger is telling.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Quadrivium

Science has come a long way, in answering the abortion question

Nonsense! "The Abortion question" is philosophical. It's about ethics, social mores, values and morals.

Science, on the other hand, tells us how safe abortions can be done, for whatever reason at all.

Nonsense!!
Science has shown that a human being is being killed.

Murder is philosophical, as well. It's about ethics, social mores, values and morals.
So is Slavery.
and Genocide.

You condone those as well?

a reply to: Annee

And the problem with that is what? You don't like it?

None of us are going to stop having sex because you don't like it.

Clump of cells "potential human" is not a person. Clump of cells removed prevents further development.

You are a clump of cells as well, you ok with being aborted? GO FOR IT.
The problem is you are taking human life.
I have no problem with anyone having sex.
I have a problem with humans killing other humans for convenience.
I have a problem with humans killing other humans for choices they freely and willfully made in 99% of cases.

Nothing screams white supremacy more than a public policy that encourages minorities to abort their babies.

originally posted by: loam
Nothing screams white supremacy more than a public policy that encourages minorities to abort their babies.

SOURCE?

LINK?

Not from an anti-abortion site.

Not from an OP.

...and once again after 47 pages of back and forth, it's proven that the debate is a waste of time.

People who think it's murder will never concede because it's murder.

People who think an unborn child is nothing more than a growth of cells will never concede.

This should not be political and never should have been and by letting it continue we justify the political parties' use of it to keep us hating one another. Man are we dumb.

a reply to: paraphi

That statement is problematic on several levels, not least the belief that a fetus is a human being. Defining when a fetus is a separate and distinct individual "human" is a legal dilemma. I am not demeaning your opinion, just saying that in law (in most countries) and in ethics, a fetus is not a human.

Hello paraphi,
It is no longer a "belief" that a fetus is a human being. It is a biological fact. Zygote, embryo and fetus are stages of human development just like newborn, toddler and adolescent. They all are the same individual, just at different stages of development.
This is not a law issue. It is a Human Rights issue. Basic human rights trump the law as the law does not give us rights but are put in place to protect them.

I also think that most women don't have abortions because of "convenience". The issue is more complex and difficult than you may want to believe.

I suggest you research it a little more, you may be surprised. 1% (or 1.5% to 2%, depending on the Study) of all abortions were from rape, incest or a risk to the mothers life.
That leave 98% to 99% for......

I will declare that a woman has the right to choose, but only in a tight legal framework, which has been developed around ethical and medical considerations.

Both involved parties had a right to choose.
In 99% of cases they made a conscious, free, and thought out decision to engage in the act of reproduction, knowing that the possible consequence may be pregnancy.
Once the egg becomes fertilized, they have successfully reproduced and willfully brought a third party into the equation.
This third party did not have a choice, and through abortion, will be killed for the convenience of another person, in 99% of cases.

PS- I do not insult unless I am insulted.
Thanks for the post.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
...and once again after 47 pages of back and forth, it's proven that the debate is a waste of time.

People who think it's murder will never concede because it's murder.

People who think an unborn child is nothing more than a growth of cells will never concede.

This should not be political and never should have been and by letting it continue we justify the political parties' use of it to keep us hating one another. Man are we dumb.

I've been there -- done that -- and it's no one else's business. It should be a personal choice PERIOD!!!!

So, why do some think it's their right to use politics to deny another their personal choice/right?

I'm not sticking my nose in someone else's business.

I'm defending my choice. And right to have made it.

a reply to: Annee

You should not look harshly at people who view it as murder, because you are literally asking them to say murder is OK. That's why it's a bubblegum argument, chewing the same old piece of gum over and over until it has no flavor.

I am Pro-Life but I'm rational. It should not be political and to be frank, everyone should be angry at both parties' leaders for using it to divide to control us.

I doubt I'll ever post again on this topic in my life as it's pointless and I'll leave it to those who like the never-ending back and forth.

Thanks for the conversation folks.

a reply to: Annee

So you can just do whatever the hell you want whenever you want?

Like others have said, you can't go around murdering without consequence although you might choose to do so. Nor should you expect people to condone what they see as a reprehensible act.

We're allowed the opinion regardless of your feelings!

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Annee

You should not look harshly at people who view it as murder, because you are literally asking them to say murder is OK. That's why it's a bubblegum argument, chewing the same old piece of gum over and over until it has no flavor.

I am Pro-Life but I'm rational. It should not be political and to be frank, everyone should be angry at both parties' leaders for using it to divide to control us.

I doubt I'll ever post again on this topic in my life as it's pointless and I'll leave it to those who like the never-ending back and forth.

Thanks for the conversation folks.

Many pro-life people (both men & women) still support RIGHT OF CHOICE.

They know what is wrong for them -- but also know they have no business deciding what's right for someone else.

Forcing legislature to deny my Right of Choice -- is where it crosses the line.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Annee

So you can just do whatever the hell you want whenever you want?

Oh YAY!!! Go for Extremism. What a surprise.

The subject here is specific. Stick to it.