It's About To Go Down...

originally posted by: MidnightWatcher
a reply to: ufoorbhunter



They tried at the beginning of the war with almost 50,000 troops and abysmal air support that failed to protect russian troops.

Yeah for sure they tried yet they needed a million going in to do a full on takeover and occupation Maybe more. The 50,000 you state, well it doesn't add up to a proper invasion force. Nowhere near enough. It doesn't add up.

a reply to: andy06shake


"My guess is it will end with the Russian people removing or killing Putin or he will be daft enough to use a nuke"


I fear those may be the only remaining options at this point.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I think they actually expected Ukraine to fold and then cheer the "liberators" as they arrived.

Propaganda is a powerful potion, especially when one consumes their own.

Cheers

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

See even if Russia did manage to take Ukraine or have her people capitulate.

Current military doctrine pretty much suggests they would require around 2.5 million troops to hold and defend the area.

Buddy, it would make the troubles in Northern Ireland look like a teddy bear's picnic.

a reply to: andy06shake

If it goes off there will be so many drones and decoys in the sky, no missile system will be able to work out what is what. by the time they do, enough will have made the target. They will blanket bomb a highway to Kyiv to find out that the Government has already left. If NATO gets involved they will not get their investment back. Simply because they will have to rebuild their own countries no matter who says who won. At the moment they could leave Russia in the Donbas and screw the rest of Ukraine for the foreseeable future. A lot of the big boy's money is already there waiting for a return. Zelensky has been paid off to make sure the debt lasts a long time. If Zelensky gets replaced with a pro-Russian Government they will have taken a big haircut. So with any luck, unless they think that they can take the whole of Russia and China logically it will most likely cool off. That's providing Russia stays sane, Putin might have had enough of the BS and want to call a real showdown NATO and the west have proven that they do not honor agreements, so they might not be worth dealing with anymore as there is no point.

a reply to: anonentity

A paragraph or two might be nice anonentity.

Not taking the piss but a big word salad like that hurts my old skyballs.

IF NATO gets involved it will be because Putin forces their hand, simple as that.

And we both know NATO will wipe the floor with any conventional force Russia can hope to field.

So again we are left with the threat of Putin chucking his nukes out his pram.

What a predicament!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ufoorbhunter


Interesting times indeed my friend, for my own part, i remember cold war era, it was #.

Oh yeah crazy times, alive then too Andy it was scary. They showed us that film at school called Threads some nuke in Sheff (maybe) going boom. Oh dear it was scary. Daily reports on the news how many tanks Russia . warsaw Pact had and how quickly they could be at the Channel.

Sky had an 'expert' on the other day. Asked his opinion of how it will play out, basically same as you said, possibly use of nukes if Russian interests are threatened. Use of millions of cannon fodder too just to stall the better weaponry held by Ukraine.

Weird thing was he said we will now have a new Cold War 2 and he said it will last for a minimum of thirty years which is like probably the rest of our lives

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: MidnightWatcher
a reply to: ufoorbhunter



They tried at the beginning of the war with almost 50,000 troops and abysmal air support that failed to protect russian troops.

Yeah for sure they tried yet they needed a million going in to do a full on takeover and occupation Maybe more. The 50,000 you state, well it doesn't add up to a proper invasion force. Nowhere near enough. It doesn't add up.

50k would have been plenty if their invasion plan had worked and their air force was as 'capable' as they thought, these were mostly 'elite' russian forces, but instead it was worse than biden level reckless incompetence.

russia vastly out numbered and out gunned Ukraine in just about every conceivable way, and quite literally drove into one trap, then completely created another other trap all on their own - NOBODY expected russia to be stooopud enough to camp out in the Cherynobol nogo zone and kill all their own soldiers with barely any effort from Ukraine.

Then proceeded to rope a dope themselves.

a reply to: MidnightWatcher

The problem is Midnight, we keep thinking Russia threw everything in.

Yet we have not seen any of the new tech other than the Dagger (Kenzhal) missiles.

All the other new stuff stayed behind, that's room for alarm and honestly if we think Putin threw everything in then we are wrong.

Why? Because what we saw as I mentioned was mercenary force of roughly 150,000 - 200,000 that used outdated tech and still managed to achieve all those things.

The entire military potential of Ukraine was wiped out. How do we know this? Because NATO and America literally had to send in cargo trains and antonov planes to Ukraine worth tens of billions if not 100s of billions in aid now. That's the only reason they managed to stop the mercenary force and push them back a bit.

Most of the Ukrainian stuff got wiped out within the first 3-7 hours of the operation, and we have to admit we saw a far more humane approach than anywhere in the world in terms of the operation that took place.

If we keep arguing that Russia threw everything in then we are 100% mistaken and Putin would not be that dumb to throw the entire might of the Russian military in.

I believe as I said before he is waiting to annex the land, as soon as NATO and America tells Zelensky to attack them that is when Putin will finally label it a proper war and start leveling everything. Not to mention send everything in!

The arrogance is that we in the west keep thinking that we've won, Russia is losing and that they will crumble.

Now not to mention we blew up their gas pipelines, basically screwing over Europe this brutal winter and all signs and reports point to a very cold winter this year for Europe. That means there will be deaths from the cold and starvation! But why? That is what we should be asking, why would America screw over their strategic partner like that?

Because we know it wasn't the Russians and even most European nations are now asking America as well as to why they did it!

Anyway, I'm done arguing the back and forward, we will see as winter comes and as Zelensky attacks the now new Russian land which is a direct attack on Russia itself.

Furthermore, as I mentioned nukes aren't even needed, and additionally there is a reason why NATO and America has not went in themselves. They are willing to sacrifice every single Ukrainian just to give Russia a bad rep, however the Ukrainians are die hard loyalists. For the past 8 years they have been hammered with their Bandera Hero status, when in fact that dude was worse than the SS in terms of extermination of the Jews, Ukrainians and Russians, etc.

We can not deny the fact that Ukraine and the Ukrainian military is a virtual clone of NATO forces, a sub-category but NATO will never admit it because of all the war crimes and horrific sh*t that was committed by them in Eastern regions since 2014.

So let's just wait and see how it will all unfold, I can tell you right now that Putin and Russia has been taking it easy with Ukraine. Under the legal U.N law I believe it is under article 50 or 51 or whatever U.N charter there is, a special military operation can take place if a country feels threatened, etc. I don't remember the exact article of the charter but I know it is in there, hence why Putin in the eyes of international law and order launched the special operation.

Furthermore, what we must realize under war doctrine if Russia went the inhumane way and actually followed the real doctrine instead of a special operation one. There would have been no more electricity, no more bridges, no more roads, no more trains, no more plains in and out of Ukraine. It is why we in the West saw all the stuff still operational and went "Wait a minute why the hell are Russians not going total war doctrine on Ukraine?". Hence why when Chechens were operating fully in Ukraine, Kadyrov asked Putin to untie his hands and start a proper war following the doctrine yet Putin said no and pulled them back outside of Kyiv.

I am telling you right now there is more at play than we think and additionally the 4 main regions Putin wanted to capture for annexation were captured. So I don't think he is too fussed with how the operation turned around, because he needs a legal catalyst to allow the full all out war against Ukraine. It's why we have a lot of room for concern and it is why I was grilling my 2 contacts in the Russian branches as to what the hell is happening and where is the new tech, etc.

They both told me to watch Putin and Xi, that is when I noticed the odd meetings right before every single big event. When I understood this I then inquired into the so called referendums and annexations, and they basically said Putin is doing everything legally in the eyes of the U.N charter and articles. So I'm actually terrified for the Ukrainians because I know for a fact that once NATO and America give Zelensky the go ahead to attack Russia it will result in Putin launching a proper war.

I've known people that served in the Chechen war, and I tell you right now the reason they surrendered is truly terrifying! It was almost similar to what America did to Japan, but this weapon is just as powerful and has 0 radiation so if Putin takes out all of the infrastructures, and hits Kyiv and Lviv then it will be game over. He will literally then go through the rest of Ukraine all the way to the border of Article 5 nations.

So we can giggle all we want but what will unfold is far more terrifying! Not to mention the fact that it's not nuclear so NATO and America won't react, just how they have not reacted so far because no one wants a nuclear war.

Putin and Xi are waiting for the collapse of the U.S economy, the winter in Europe to cause possible revolutions, etc. Before they make their move against Taiwan, SEA and the rest of Europe (Mostly Western and Baltics), if you actually observed recent European elections and chatter most are asking to lift sanctions and restore relations with Russia.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Threads had a few weans off school for a week when our daft R.E teacher believe it or not decided to show it in first year.

Aye we don't do too well out of any sort of nuclear attack ufoorbhunter.

Its madness.

But hey'ho its not us threatening to use them, but Putin and his ilk, because his forces are getting spanked like an arse thus far.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I think they actually expected Ukraine to fold and then cheer the "liberators" as they arrived.

Propaganda is a powerful potion, especially when one consumes their own.

Cheers

Yeah for sure that's true. Some geezer on the radio recently stated that's what Putin's 'advisers' had been feeding him for years. The advisers must have their very own nationalist agenda. Putin or no Putin that group must wield real power over in Russia

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: WanderingMrM

Hence why I said Putin sent in the mercenary force first, the real war is about to begin and we're going to see what happens when Russian military no longer acts in a humane way.

Being honest and realistic about it, I always wondered why if this is a real war any of Kiev is still standing? I mean proper WW2 style Russian warfare would have seen Kiev completely levelled by now.

So the Ruskies must be operating in the current operation with a hearts and minds approach, like the Brits did in Afghanistan. You could well be correct in your statement. I guess time will tell

I know Russians, Russian history, I still have 2 high ranking contacts in Russia and some contacts at lower levels.

It is why I am telling these people that we have not seen the real Russian force nor what can really happen!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ufoorbhunter


But hey'ho its not us threatening to use them, but Putin and his ilk, because his forces are getting spanked like an arse thus far.

Interesting few hours days ahead

a reply to: WanderingMrM


"The problem is Midnight, we keep thinking Russia threw everything in."

"Yet we have not seen any of the new tech other than the Dagger (Kenzhal) missiles."



What else do they have besides nukes and more genociding?







'Because what we saw as I mentioned was mercenary force"


A tiny portion of that force were 'mercenaries'.

Didn't see any reason to read further after those two whoppers.

a reply to: WanderingMrM

My bet if Putin does have some secret plan is a massive offensive through Belarus into the north. Like last time just with ten times the invasion force. Maybe some from Moldavia too the bit the Ruskies control. Luka shenko had a coloured revolution a few months ago put down. If Russia is defeated in Ukraine I guess it's on the cards he'll be deposed soon enough so maybe he'll send in his military too. Other CSTO not so sure. Yet wouldn't surprise me if Russia cranks the whole organisation into action. Kazachstan owes Putin one for saving them from a coloured revolution too a few months ago. Should be an interesting time ahead

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Cooler heads need to prevail my friend.

Or mad bastards need to be removed.

Tell you one thing if Ukraine had kept a few of her own nukes tucked away somewhere in mothballs, that daft bastard Putin would never have had the stones to start all this nonsense.

Guess that's what good faith gets you these days.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ufoorbhunter


But hey'ho its not us threatening to use them, but Putin and his ilk, because his forces are getting spanked like an arse thus far.

Interesting few hours days ahead

We all saw what Russia did to Chechnya and Georgia, and the Russian military was less equipped and weaker then.

This is what many die hard NATO and Murika boys don't realize, the special operation we saw was not the Russia we know.

It is why I keet telling people uforbhunter that we do not want to see the real Russian bear going total war on Ukraine.

Yet instead of going "This doesn't make sense" they all are going "Yeh man Ukraine is that powerful, they pushed Russia back",etc.

Yeh, they pushed them back alright! They pushed them back to the exact 4 regions Putin needed for annexation, which once attacked gives Putin the legal right to unleash total war hell on Ukraine and not even use nukes against it. The nukes are more of for NATO and America stating "f around and find out", I believe it is more of a direct message to them stating "I'm about to do to Ukraine what we did to Germany in WW2, so you better stay the f out otherwise I won't be responsible for what follows next!".

So we can be all die hard of thinking NATO and America are beating Russia and get raging boners over Ukraine, but we can not drop our guard because Putin never does anything without thinking 6-7 steps ahead and without first discussing it with Xi. Not to mention knowing Russia and Russians this behavior is way too suspicious to be normal! So we can't just get all star dazed and high off Ukrainians pushing Russians back, we must see the bigger picture, and the bigger picture from my observations, discussions and overall knowledge tells me we're about to see the real Russia.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Cooler heads need to prevail my friend.

Or mad bastards need to be removed.

The thing is what replaces Putin? It could get a whole lot worse. I heard he wanted some Chechen tribal leader to replace him

originally posted by: MidnightWatcher
a reply to: WanderingMrM


"The problem is Midnight, we keep thinking Russia threw everything in."

"Yet we have not seen any of the new tech other than the Dagger (Kenzhal) missiles."



What else do they have besides nukes and more genociding?







'Because what we saw as I mentioned was mercenary force"


A tiny portion of that force were 'mercenaries'.

Didn't see any reason to read further after those two whoppers.

Genociding? So Ukraine wasn't genociding ethnic Russians in Eastern region for the past 8 years? Come on buddy you can do better than that!

This isn't genociding, the graves found were actually there already before the Russian mercs came in, there is more footage of Ukrainian military genociding and doing war crimes during this special operation and past 8 years than there is of Russian mercs.

And that is where your ignorance is if you can't read the full information and choose to ignore it, reminds me of them woke movement kids we see so much recently.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Serious regime change with any sort of luck springs to mind.

Your point is valid enough all the same, might just depose one maniac for another to take his place.

What Putin wants and what Putin gets through, seem to be two different things where the invasion of Ukraine is concerned.

The dude took poor advice imho and now he is reaping what he sowed.